Cyanide's Call of Cthulhu - "RPG-Investigation" game based on tabletop ruleset

[Roguey]

"official"

He said genuine.

Official and genuine are synonyms. If Chaosium felt Cyanide were doing their product a disservice, they'd object like that prude Steve Jackson did.

 

[Blaine]

Chaosium has probably been Biowarified at this point, so that doesn't mean much.

Also, Howard Philips Lovecraft is the only true "owner" of the Cthulhu mythos. Granted, Chaosium was bro-tier up to the 6th Ed. at least, but that was quite a while ago.

 

[nikolokolus]

Chaosium has probably been Biowarified at this point, so that doesn't mean much.

Also, Howard Philips Lovecraft is the only true "owner" of the Cthulhu mythos. Granted, Chaosium was bro-tier up to the 6th Ed. at least, but that was quite a while ago.

Nope. They just went through a phase where Sandy Petersen, Greg Stafford, and some old 80's Chaosium folks came back in to save the company after years of mismanagement by Charlie Krank (Things got pretty grim after Lynn Willis died got sick and left the company, then died a few years back). If not for Stafford et al. coming in and taking over, the company was probably going to go bankrupt and dissolve.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Official and genuine are synonyms

By that coin FO3 is a genuine Fallout game. Yeah right.

 

[Roguey]

Official and genuine are synonyms

By that coin FO3 is a genuine Fallout game. Yeah right.

It's a game that contains a loose assortment of familiar Fallout concepts and names, which is why you start the game in a "Vault", get a "Pipboy" device, become buddies with the "Brotherhood of Steel", shoot some "Super Mutants", and stop the evil "Enclave" from doing bad things to good people in a post-apocalyptic "retro-future" America. The main plot revolves around water (Fallout 1 plot) and requires a G.E.C.K. (Fallout 2 plot), thus assuring you that you really are playing a 100% authentic, notary certified Fallout game. With, like, vaults and stuff.

Looks legit.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Not genuine, dude.

 

[Latelistener]

Supposed to be out this year but still doing hands-off demos, huh.

Judging by the gameplay video, it looks kinda raw and underdeveloped.
If Cyanide really started making it from a scratch back in 2016, after Focus Home took it from Frogwares, they clearly need more time.

 

[Zombra]

The very first thing I did when I opened this thread was begin searching through available images and video to see if I could find some actual darkness in this game. Lack of darkness is totally inexcusable in a Call of Cthulhu game

Uh ... why? This is your top priority? Because darkness is scary and Cthulhu is also scary I guess?

Darkness isn't a theme in the original story at all. There's the big portal of darkness Cthulhu comes out of at the end that has 3 seconds of camera time, and a couple of oblique mentions of darkness like "Cthulhu lives in a dark house somewhere" or "the aliens came from a dark star eons ago" and that is it. There's no stumbling around dark caverns, no searching through creepy old mansions by fleeting candlelight. The search for the cultists in the woods mention a "black morass", implying black swampy ground, but the entire sequence is filled with vivid visual descriptions of what everybody saw. The forest would have been dark except it was lit up by a red glare at all times. That scene concludes by the harsh glow of a vast bonfire. Everything else happens in broad daylight and there are zero instances of any character described as having a hard time seeing anything. There actually is way more talk about the color green.

The protagonist holding a lighter and pretending it's actually dark [sucks].

Note I don't disagree here. Even when the guy drops his lighter in the water, it makes absolutely no difference to how well-lit the tunnel is. Just pathetic.

 

[Blaine]

Uh ... why? This is your top priority?

Yeah, it's just incredible that I'd think darkness is important in a first-person computer game centered on surviving Lovecraftian horrors, isn't it? It was my top priority because tailoring one's game so that consoletards 1.) can always see and 2.) never get lost in your simplistic level designs is a key marker of the decline.

Because darkness is scary and Cthulhu is also scary I guess? Darkness isn't a theme in the original story at all. There's the big portal of darkness Cthulhu comes out of at the end that has 3 seconds of camera time, and a couple of oblique mentions of darkness like "Cthulhu lives in a dark house somewhere" or "the aliens came from a dark star eons ago" and that is it. There's no stumbling around in dark caverns, no searching through creepy old mansions by fleeting candlelight.

I've read every single story written by Lovecraft at least twice over, and many several times each.

Measuring the amount of darkness present or mentioned in that specific story—most of which is narration and exposition that takes place in various everyday, well-lit buildings—is ridiculous. The game we're discussing doesn't take place in mundane locales or upon eldritch R'lyeh risen from the bottom of the ocean, and seems to be much more akin to The Shadow over Innsmouth.

The search for the cultists in the woods mention a "black morass", implying black swampy ground, but the entire sequence is filled with vivid visual descriptions of what everybody saw. The forest would have been dark except it was lit up by a red glare at all times. There are zero instances of any character described as having a hard time seeing anything. Except for the forest scene everything happens in broad daylight. There actually is way more talk about the color green.

Aside from the fact that that one story is only a tiny fraction of the entire Lovecraftian mythos, there's a big difference between a book that relies on description and imagery and a first-person immersive computer game that actually visually places you within the scene. Also, there's no need to beat readers over the head telling them when it's dark every single time it happens to be dark in a story. Rest assured, in many of Lovecraft's stories, during "action sequences" (i.e. not investigations or conversations in a mundane location), there is plenty of darkness to contend with; and I think that a subterranean tunnel qualifies.

Why do you think Lovecraft specifically mentions the red glare when it's nighttime in the woods? Readers will rightly assume that it's pitch-black dark at night in the woods, or nearly so, unless you tell them that either the moon or some other phenomenon is causing it to be otherwise.

Yes, there is also often some form of luminescence or other atmospheric presence in the "action sequences" of Lovecraft's stories; and obviously, protagonists usually have some means of combating the darkness even when it is dark. Do you really think that luminescence a la The Colour Out of Space is the reason why we won't find one bit of actual darkness in this game, though? Come on, now.

 

[Zombra]

I think the existence of one Lovecraft story that isn't overwhelmed by visual darkness is sufficient to prove that it's OK to have a Lovecraft story that isn't overwhelmed by visual darkness. Would you have complained to Howard himself that The Call of Cthulhu was "inexcusably" non-"Lovecraftian"?

There's no need to beat readers over the head telling them when it's dark every single time it happens to be dark in a story.

Once would have been nice.

It was my top priority because tailoring one's game so that consoletards 1.) can always see and 2.) never get lost in your simplistic level designs is a key marker of the decline.

Sensible. In that light (ha ha), I agree with you.

 

[Blaine]

I think the existence of one Lovecraft story that isn't overwhelmed by visual darkness is sufficient to prove that it's OK to have a Lovecraft story that isn't overwhelmed by visual darkness.

An excuse can always be found to justify decline. It's not as though this game is an exception, either: Virtually all modern games designed for mass appeal in which darkness-as-obstacle would be appropriate (such as first-person survival games) utilize fake not-darkness instead, so that knuckledragging mouthbreathers don't get confused and frustrated.

Furthermore, I never suggested that a game based in the Cthulhu mythos should be "overwhelmed" by visual darkness. It should certainly have pockets and sections of overwhelming darkness, though.

I'm sure you (and I, for that matter; I could argue both sides, but choose not to, because there are plenty of baboons doing that already) could come up with similar excuses for any game that utilizes fake not-darkness.

There's no need to beat readers over the head telling them when it's dark every single time it happens to be dark in a story.

Once would have been nice.

There's no need to tell readers even once that nighttime woods and subterranean caverns are dark by default. You do need to tell them if they are not dark for this reason, which is the source of all of your intellectually bankrupt, missing-the-point-on-purpose "evidence."

But hey, sometimes there's eldritch luminescence. By your reckoning, every single Cthulhu computer game can and should be lit with neon, each one individually excused by the existence of The Colour Out of Space.

Sensible. In that light (ha ha), I agree with you.

The not-darkness decline has even touched the Dark Souls franchise. Both the first and second games featured extensive areas of near-total darkness, in addition to areas that, while not truly dark in the sense of not being able to find one's way, definitely looked and felt oppressively dark.

Dark Souls 3 quite literally had several small barns and one boss arena that were actually dark, and the boss in that one instance was lit up like a Christmas tree. The rest of the game was bathed in undead-fireball-thing sunlight.

 

[Zombra]

Furthermore, I never suggested that a game based in the Cthulhu mythos should be "overwhelmed" by visual darkness. It should certainly have pockets and sections of overwhelming darkness, though.

I still say that The Call of Cthulhu doesn't have these pockets or sections. The forest is the only one that's close, and there's really no description of it being oppressively dark. "Every game must have crushing darkness" seems extreme.

But hey, sometimes there's eldritch luminescence. By your reckoning, every single Cthulhu computer game can and should be lit with neon, each one individually excused by the existence of The Colour Out of Space.

No, but if a game called The Colour Out of Space had a bright light in it, I wouldn't get all mad, just like I'm not all mad at a game called Call of Cthulhu because it's about as brightly lit as the environments in The Call of Cthulhu.

Kind of the thing here is that this game actually does seem a lot about investigation. It may turn out to be 80% running down not-dark-enough halls from pursuing Deep Ones, but so far I don't see that. Like the short story, it's about a guy looking at stuff in front of his face and learning things. He does direct detective work instead of just asking other people what they know about cultists or reading journals, but from what I've seen there's no reason he should be doing this stuff in darkness. Now the water tunnel with the lighter is dumb, I agree.

The not-darkness decline has even touched the Dark Souls franchise.

That's a good example - but. It's a series that was built on darkness and then moved away from it. There is no series here to break away from.

 

[aweigh]

wasnt there a first person Call of Cthulhu game already made years ago that was this same thing i remember Innsmouth hotel room escape was the first big setpiece

 

[Blaine]

I still say that The Call of Cthulhu doesn't have these pockets or sections. The forest is the only one that's close, and there's really no description of it being oppressively dark.

That's one story out of many dozens. You're fixating on something that you shouldn't be fixated on, simply because of the name. The mythos is named after Cthulhu, and the tabletop RPG is named after the story, but that particular story is by no means the be-all, end-all of the mythos. Cthulhu is simply the high priest of the Great Old Ones and the modern poster boy of Lovecraft's fiction, in the same way that dragons are the poster boys of medieval fantasy.

Your inability to understand that The Call of Cthulhu itself isn't a trump card in this argument makes me suspect that you haven't actually read many of Lovecraft's stories, and possibly none of them until you needed ammunition for this argument and skimmed the most obvious thing.

What you're doing here is similar to fixating only on scenes in The Lord of the Rings that directly involve Sauron, or perhaps Smaug, i.e. missing the point.

Kind of the thing here

Please don't talk at me in Millennial-speak.

That's a good example - but. It's a series that was built on darkness and then moved away from it. There is no series here to break away from.

Like I said: There's always an excuse.

 

[aweigh]

oppressive darkness has never been a recurring motif in Lovecraft stories

 

[Zombra]

That's one story out of many dozens. You're fixating on something that you shouldn't be fixated on, simply because of the name. The mythos is named after Cthulhu, and the tabletop RPG is named after the story, but that particular story is by no means the be-all, end-all of the mythos. Cthulhu is simply the high priest of the Great Old Ones and the modern poster boy of Lovecraft's fiction, in the same way that dragons are the poster boys of medieval fantasy.

Nevertheless, the existence of one story that isn't about physical darkness proves the existence of one story that isn't about physical darkness. To proclaim that every story must heavily feature physical darkness is to proclaim that you know Lovecraft better than Lovecraft.

What you're doing here is similar to fixating only on scenes in The Lord of the Rings that directly involve Sauron, or perhaps Smaug, i.e. missing the point.

To say that "no LOTR stories can involve dragons because many LOTR stories did not involve dragons" would be silly, and calling you out on it would be valid. Yo man, there was a dragon in one of those stories.

Like I said: There's always an excuse.

So my ability to continue providing valid arguments is itself evidence that my arguments must be invalid? How convenient.

 

[Blaine]

Nevertheless, the existence of one story that isn't about physical darkness proves the existence of one story that isn't about physical darkness.

That's all it proves, and it's totally irrelevant.

To proclaim that every story must heavily feature physical darkness is to proclaim that you know Lovecraft better than Lovecraft.

It's a good thing I've never proclaimed either, then, isn't it?

To say that "no LOTR stories can involve dragons because many LOTR stories did not involve dragons" would be silly...

It sure would, especially since your comparison is based entirely on an imaginary proclamation that I never made.

So my ability to continue providing valid arguments....

Is that what we're calling rat's nests of hamster-wheel rationalizations these days? Considering your political proclivities, I'm not surprised.

Your series of "arguments" revolves around the idea that darkness doesn't play a large role in every Lovecraft story, or in every part of Lovecraft stories that do feature it. While this is true in and of itself, using this to defend not-darkness in declined popamole is nevertheless intellectually dishonest and little more than a convenient excuse. If this studio goes on to produce nineteen more Cthulhu mythos games, then every single one of them will lack true darkness and feature the same brand of green-smeared not-darkness that also just so happens to be used by numerous other studios in games like Thiaf, most of which have absolutely no excuse for not implementing actual darkness.

The motivation behind the not-darkness in this game is the very same motivation behind the not-darkness featured in every other pile of declined shovelware this side of the 20th century. The lighter scene is ample proof of that.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

wasnt there a first person Call of Cthulhu game already made years ago that was this same thing i remember Innsmouth hotel room escape was the first big setpiece

Yes, there was. A fine game, although not a RPG.

 

[existential_vacuum]

wasnt there a first person Call of Cthulhu game already made years ago that was this same thing i remember Innsmouth hotel room escape was the first big setpiece

Indeed, and I personally don't know the "Codex Hivemind" consensus on it, but, imo, Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth is a flawed, buggy gem of the horror genre. It's overly relying on shooting in the second half of the game, has stupid AI, is frustrating (final boss) and anoying (sanity system kicking in when you look down from great height and Jack, the protagonist, starts mumbling nonsense about dying for no reason in the context) at times, but it was immersive, generally creepy and, more importantly, less keen on jumpscares. Cutscenes are from first person perspective, there are no heads-up display, but there is object highlighting (as in pickable objects) which is not that important, considering you still have to find, where in the environment (non-highlighted) you have to use the item (yeah, an excuse, but sometimes you can roam for a long time without progressing).
As in where to find it, there is steam and GOG and it is not available for me on GOG. Steam version is bugged and unfixed, the GOG version, as the legend tells us, is stable.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

wasnt there a first person Call of Cthulhu game already made years ago that was this same thing i remember Innsmouth hotel room escape was the first big setpiece

Indeed, and I personally don't know the "Codex Hivemind" consensus on it, but, imo, Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth is a flawed, buggy gem of the horror genre. It's overly relying on shooting in the second half of the game, has stupid AI, is frustrating (final boss) and anoying (sanity system kicking in when you look down from great height and Jack, the protagonist, starts mumbling nonsense about dying for no reason in the context) at times, but it was immersive, generally creepy and, more importantly, less keen on jumpscares. Cutscenes are from first person perspective, there are no heads-up display, but there is object highlighting (as in pickable objects) which is not that important, considering you still have to find, where in the environment (non-highlighted) you have to use the item (yeah, an excuse, but sometimes you can roam for a long time without progressing).
As in where to find it, there is steam and GOG and it is not available for me on GOG. Steam version is bugged and unfixed, the GOG version, as the legend tells us, is stable.

Also unavailable for me on GOG.
Although while we're at it, CoC: Shadow of the Comet, and CoC: Prisoner of Ice are available there. Although still no Daughter of Serpents (old games has it though, ofc).

 

[Zombra]

To proclaim that every story must heavily feature physical darkness is to proclaim that you know Lovecraft better than Lovecraft.

It's a good thing I've never proclaimed either, then, isn't it?

Lack of darkness is totally inexcusable in a Call of Cthulhu game

I mean, there it is.

Your series of "arguments" revolves around the idea that darkness doesn't play a large role in every Lovecraft story, or in every part of Lovecraft stories that do feature it. While this is true in and of itself, using this to defend not-darkness in declined popamole is nevertheless intellectually dishonest and little more than a convenient excuse. If this studio goes on to produce nineteen more Cthulhu mythos games, then every single one of them will lack true darkness and feature the same brand of green-smeared not-darkness that also just so happens to be used by numerous other studios in games like Thiaf, most of which have absolutely no excuse for not implementing actual darkness. The motivation behind the not-darkness in this game is the very same motivation behind the not-darkness featured in every other pile of declined shovelware this side of the 20th century. The lighter scene is ample proof of that.

Now who's being intellectually dishonest? I've never denied that the lighter scene is stupid, or that bad level design or consolization are bad. My argument has nothing to do with that. It has to do with your insistence that every Lovecraft story has to be about stumbling in the dark, because many of them are. If you don't insist that, then drop the "Lovecraft authority" pose and argue strictly on the basis of game design, which would be valid. You're continually mixing the two up and it's weakening your point.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Buddies, homies, dudes... do we really want this game to have lots of all consuming darkness? Maybe this was less a thematic decision on Cyanide's part than a practical one. After all, video games are primarily a visual medium. Kinda hard to play if you can't see anything.

 

[Blaine]

I mean, there it is.

Emphasis on game. I've already made that point pretty clearly: There's a huge difference between printed words on a page and an actual first-person, three-dimensional visual and aural computer game. I absolutely do believe that a complete lack of actual darkness in a Call of Cthulhu game in this format is inexcusable and a (purposefully) missed opportunity.

Also, don't get cute and nitpick my lack of specificity with the term "game." Speaking of that, though, and related to formats, consider the Mansions of Madness board game: It's one of my favorite board games, and its format precludes "actual darkness" entirely. The mansion board is "illuminated" pretty much everywhere. That doesn't bother me, because it's a sensible choice in that format. Darkness or dimness wouldn't add much.

The lighter is the smoking gun that torpedoes all of your mental gymnastics. It's very clear that the developers are aware darkness would enhance the game, particularly in situations such a crawling through flooded underground tunnels, yet they deliberately shy away from actually implementing darkness because of the laws of consolitis.

Do you deny the basic motivation behind the implementation of not-darkness in this game?

Buddies, homies, dudes... do we really want this game to have lots of all consuming darkness? Maybe this was less a thematic decision on Cyanide's part than a practical one. After all, video games are primarily a visual medium. Kinda hard to play if you can't see anything.

You're not expected to walk around everywhere completely blind. That's just silly. You'd carry light sources, use extremely dim outlines/lights in the distance to navigate, and so on. This can be experienced in many games that utilize actual darkness.

It was a practical choice, though. Consoletards don't like not being able to see their surroundings or getting lost in complex environments.

 

[Infinitron]

Lots of autism here. Why not just say it's a bad horror game rather than a bad Cthulhu game, because of the lack of darkness?

Anyway it's from Cyanide so of course it's not hardcore, adjust your expectations.

 

[Delterius]

Why not just say it's a bad horror game rather than a bad Cthulhu game, because of the lack of darkness?

cthullu without horror

you mean this

i'm probably going to play all of these cyanide games out of genre preference but still, my expectations aren't very high