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Game News Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty Released

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
$31 for a DLC? :lol: After what they pulled with the main game? Which is also available for about $30 now? :lol: :lol:

I am forced to once again agree with Admiral Grrrlboss from NuTrek:
It's allegedly 20 hours long, basically an expansion pack, not some 4-6 hour typical DLC.

$30 is still insane for a full expansion, which this is not.

It was clear from the start that CP2077 was basically a framework for DLC's rather than a completed game, with 90% of the city being devoid of anything interesting and definitely not involved in the main (or side) quests.

I'm surprised they aren't pumping out DLC's at a Paradox pace actually.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Messages
36,052
$30 is still insane for a full expansion, which this is not.
Expansions were always typically $30 or so.

It was clear from the start that CP2077 was basically a framework for DLC's rather than a completed game, with 90% of the city being devoid of anything interesting and definitely not involved in the main (or side) quests.

That's something you came up with in your head https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/cyberpunk-2077-phantom-liberty-released.148409/post-8688963
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
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Messages
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
$30 is still insane for a full expansion, which this is not.
Expansions were always typically $30 or so.

It was clear from the start that CP2077 was basically a framework for DLC's rather than a completed game, with 90% of the city being devoid of anything interesting and definitely not involved in the main (or side) quests.

That's something you came up with in your head https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/cyberpunk-2077-phantom-liberty-released.148409/post-8688963
Do you ever post something that's not retarded?

Something I cane up with, that's why they had to issue a statement to confirm that there will only be 1 expansion. Because I'm the only one in the universe that expected there to be more.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
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Messages
36,052
Too bad "your design philosophy" wasn't well received for Deadfire. :smug:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/291650/Pillars_of_Eternity/
87% of 14,000 reviews
https://store.steampowered.com/app/560130/Pillars_of_Eternity_II_Deadfire/
87% of of 12,000 reviews
303krn.jpg
 

Vyvian

Educated
Joined
Jul 11, 2023
Messages
257
Regarding that article, if they are moving to Unreal Engine I guess we can kiss modding goodbye.
Silly me thinking CDPR was serious about making their games more mod friendly.
 

potatojohn

Arcane
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
2,646
The level scaling makes the game less fun.

On release the different encounters had set levels, so you could go to corpo plaza early to fight high level encounters.

They would drop level-locked loot that you couldn't equip anyway (and by the time that you could, it was trash), but it was fun to do.

Now it seems that all encounters scale to your level
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,591
Something I cane up with, that's why they had to issue a statement to confirm that there will only be 1 expansion. Because I'm the only one in the universe that expected there to be more.
A lot of people always expect more. But they were clear back in May 2022 that this would be the only one https://www.gamesradar.com/cyberpunk-2077-may-only-get-one-dlc-expansion/

They were clear after the launch was a disaster. Before release they definitively said at least 3 full expansions, of which each would be Blood & Wine level. They backtracked when they realized they had fucked the pooch. Either research better, or stop lying.

It is also demonstrably true that the majority of the city was not fleshed out to the degree envisoned by the devs in concept. There are entire neighborhoods that were described as if they were large, sprawling areas in pre-release materials that ended up being stillborn in game, some not even qualifying as districts at all (for the most notable example, see the hills-city interface area, which was supposed to be a major affluent area with shops & clubs and whatnot on par with the major districts). Some of this can be hand-waved away as usual game development cuts, but at the same time when you had planned at least 3 major expansions it seems likely that some of what was cut was planned to be added in later... problem was that they ran into the fact that the public now hated their project and wouldn't (maybe) finance them to build 3+ huge expansions just to restore what was initially promised. So they panicked, cut back, and transitioned into Unreal and Witcher 4.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,591
The level scaling makes the game less fun.

On release the different encounters had set levels, so you could go to corpo plaza early to fight high level encounters.

They would drop level-locked loot that you couldn't equip anyway (and by the time that you could, it was trash), but it was fun to do.

Now it seems that all encounters scale to your level

Yes this is true. But the game already was like... 90% level scaled, it was just a little variety in how much it level scaled. The changes are absolutely decline, but it's a case of "it was decline before, now it is even more decline", not that they started with a non-decline base.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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PoE is trash (and I don't mean Path of Exile)
Pillars of eternity > path of exile. (Both are trash of course, one is soulless zoom zoom grind while another has autistic Sawyer soul)

not really

path of exile is probably closest game to D2 in existence

loads of people play it and it has a cult following

it has been played for 10 years, and in another 10 years its still gonna be played

pillars of eternity is a forgotten failed RPG
 

Cohesion

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Codex+ Now Streaming!
PoE is trash (and I don't mean Path of Exile)
Pillars of eternity > path of exile. (Both are trash of course, one is soulless zoom zoom grind while another has autistic Sawyer soul)

not really

path of exile is probably closest game to D2 in existence

loads of people play it and it has a cult following

it has been played for 10 years, and in another 10 years its still gonna be played

pillars of eternity is a forgotten failed RPG
Streamers and zoomers and ethots play Exile.
D2R, grim dawn and last epoch are closest games to D2.

Pillars OTOH is an isometric game resembling beloved classic games.

I'd rather play grim dawn and pillars than path of exile and dos2/bg3.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Messages
36,052
Something I cane up with, that's why they had to issue a statement to confirm that there will only be 1 expansion. Because I'm the only one in the universe that expected there to be more.
A lot of people always expect more. But they were clear back in May 2022 that this would be the only one https://www.gamesradar.com/cyberpunk-2077-may-only-get-one-dlc-expansion/

They were clear after the launch was a disaster. Before release they definitively said at least 3 full expansions, of which each would be Blood & Wine level. They backtracked when they realized they had fucked the pooch. Either research better, or stop lying.

That was journalists putting their own spin on what they were saying https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/cyberpunk-2077-dlc-and-expansions/

"Cyberpunk 2077’s DLC will be revealed before release" is the thing to pay attention to. They did not announce multiple expansions before release.

It is also demonstrably true that the majority of the city was not fleshed out to the degree envisoned by the devs in concept. There are entire neighborhoods that were described as if they were large, sprawling areas in pre-release materials that ended up being stillborn in game, some not even qualifying as districts at all (for the most notable example, see the hills-city interface area, which was supposed to be a major affluent area with shops & clubs and whatnot on par with the major districts). Some of this can be hand-waved away as usual game development cuts, but at the same time when you had planned at least 3 major expansions it seems likely that some of what was cut was planned to be added in later... problem was that they ran into the fact that the public now hated their project and wouldn't (maybe) finance them to build 3+ huge expansions just to restore what was initially promised. So they panicked, cut back, and transitioned into Unreal and Witcher 4.

That isn't it. Thanks to high turnover and poor documentation, RED is a dead engine walking. Project Orion is a Cyberpunk sequel being done in Unreal. They wouldn't even be doing that if they thought the whole thing was a failure best abandoned.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,591
Something I cane up with, that's why they had to issue a statement to confirm that there will only be 1 expansion. Because I'm the only one in the universe that expected there to be more.
A lot of people always expect more. But they were clear back in May 2022 that this would be the only one https://www.gamesradar.com/cyberpunk-2077-may-only-get-one-dlc-expansion/

They were clear after the launch was a disaster. Before release they definitively said at least 3 full expansions, of which each would be Blood & Wine level. They backtracked when they realized they had fucked the pooch. Either research better, or stop lying.

That was journalists putting their own spin on what they were saying https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/cyberpunk-2077-dlc-and-expansions/

"Cyberpunk 2077’s DLC will be revealed before release" is the thing to pay attention to. They did not announce multiple expansions before release.

It is also demonstrably true that the majority of the city was not fleshed out to the degree envisoned by the devs in concept. There are entire neighborhoods that were described as if they were large, sprawling areas in pre-release materials that ended up being stillborn in game, some not even qualifying as districts at all (for the most notable example, see the hills-city interface area, which was supposed to be a major affluent area with shops & clubs and whatnot on par with the major districts). Some of this can be hand-waved away as usual game development cuts, but at the same time when you had planned at least 3 major expansions it seems likely that some of what was cut was planned to be added in later... problem was that they ran into the fact that the public now hated their project and wouldn't (maybe) finance them to build 3+ huge expansions just to restore what was initially promised. So they panicked, cut back, and transitioned into Unreal and Witcher 4.

That isn't it. Thanks to high turnover and poor documentation, RED is a dead engine walking. Project Orion is a Cyberpunk sequel being done in Unreal. They wouldn't even be doing that if they thought the whole thing was a failure best abandoned.

Your googlefu failed you:

https://wccftech.com/cyberpunk-2077...tting-is-great-to-sell-things-in-multiplayer/

Yes, you can expect a similar path after release. You can expect more, actually. We’re not
going into too many details today, but everything will be clear before release. As we are close to the release, expect the post-release plans to be revealed fairly soon; a series of free DLCs and expansions will be described – as I said, you can expect it fairly soon and then everything will be made clear.

Considering PR speak is vague, you can always twist the words to say you are "technically correct" or whatever, but let's not pretend that this was some confection of the media. CDPR is the source of this, and they did plan more extensive post-release support than Witcher 3... only to then decide otherwise.

A generous, optimistic reading of their plans at this point is they decided the PR sink of building lots on Cyberpunk 2077 was not worth it, and they feel a sequel will reset impressions better, and that is indeed their priority, aside from Witcher 4. However as I've said before, switching to Unreal wasn't done for any reason except they lost lots of staff, not because RedEngine sucks. Also, set the sophistry aside: any use of Unreal will require gutting its innards to form the sort of game they make (or worse, the failure to do so would make it look generic and cheap as hell); the same developers who are apparently unable to handle RedEngine will be the ones who have to repurpose Unreal, so that is hardly good news for CDPR.

I think if you look at it in terms of them massively hiring outside contractors who can more easily be trained on Unreal, that makes the most sense. But it's not in anyway a good situation to be in. They're admitting mediocrity, and that the unique aspects of the studio are being replaced. They might as well be EA or Ubisoft at that point, undercutting the whole marketing appeal of the studio in the first place ("We're different! Trust us.").
 

Immortal

Arcane
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Messages
5,069
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
Your googlefu failed you:

https://wccftech.com/cyberpunk-2077...tting-is-great-to-sell-things-in-multiplayer/

Yes, you can expect a similar path after release. You can expect more, actually. We’re not
going into too many details today, but everything will be clear before release. As we are close to the release, expect the post-release plans to be revealed fairly soon; a series of free DLCs and expansions will be described – as I said, you can expect it fairly soon and then everything will be made clear.

Considering PR speak is vague, you can always twist the words to say you are "technically correct" or whatever, but let's not pretend that this was some confection of the media. CDPR is the source of this, and they did plan more extensive post-release support than Witcher 3... only to then decide otherwise.

A generous, optimistic reading of their plans at this point is they decided the PR sink of building lots on Cyberpunk 2077 was not worth it, and they feel a sequel will reset impressions better, and that is indeed their priority, aside from Witcher 4. However as I've said before, switching to Unreal wasn't done for any reason except they lost lots of staff, not because RedEngine sucks. Also, set the sophistry aside: any use of Unreal will require gutting its innards to form the sort of game they make (or worse, the failure to do so would make it look generic and cheap as hell); the same developers who are apparently unable to handle RedEngine will be the ones who have to repurpose Unreal, so that is hardly good news for CDPR.

I think if you look at it in terms of them massively hiring outside contractors who can more easily be trained on Unreal, that makes the most sense. But it's not in anyway a good situation to be in. They're admitting mediocrity, and that the unique aspects of the studio are being replaced. They might as well be EA or Ubisoft at that point, undercutting the whole marketing appeal of the studio in the first place ("We're different! Trust us.").

The fact they say "expansion(s)" plural means they clearly intended at least 2. Hard to interpret that any other way if that quote is real.
It's funny because then Cyberpunk drops.. like a turd in the toilet and they immediately step back and say "euch fuck this.. let's cut it".. They were announcing pretty early on that there was only gonna be one expansion (post release) so I think they pretty quickly wanted to call it quits.

THEN Edgerunners dropped and the game exploded again on steam.. which led to a few cyberpunk developers sorta alluding "oh maybe more content will come then.. hue hue".

I think where it stands now.. they are moving onto Witcher 4 and that's it. We might get some more bullshit DLC.. maybe a Santa Sled Car or some stupid bullshit.. but otherwise it's OVA.

--
I am curious though, they hired a buncha mod creators to work full time on this game.. but nothing seems to of came out of that.
These mod makers were pumping shit out like crazy then once they got a fat polish paycheck their output died.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,591
Your googlefu failed you:

https://wccftech.com/cyberpunk-2077...tting-is-great-to-sell-things-in-multiplayer/

Yes, you can expect a similar path after release. You can expect more, actually. We’re not
going into too many details today, but everything will be clear before release. As we are close to the release, expect the post-release plans to be revealed fairly soon; a series of free DLCs and expansions will be described – as I said, you can expect it fairly soon and then everything will be made clear.

Considering PR speak is vague, you can always twist the words to say you are "technically correct" or whatever, but let's not pretend that this was some confection of the media. CDPR is the source of this, and they did plan more extensive post-release support than Witcher 3... only to then decide otherwise.

A generous, optimistic reading of their plans at this point is they decided the PR sink of building lots on Cyberpunk 2077 was not worth it, and they feel a sequel will reset impressions better, and that is indeed their priority, aside from Witcher 4. However as I've said before, switching to Unreal wasn't done for any reason except they lost lots of staff, not because RedEngine sucks. Also, set the sophistry aside: any use of Unreal will require gutting its innards to form the sort of game they make (or worse, the failure to do so would make it look generic and cheap as hell); the same developers who are apparently unable to handle RedEngine will be the ones who have to repurpose Unreal, so that is hardly good news for CDPR.

I think if you look at it in terms of them massively hiring outside contractors who can more easily be trained on Unreal, that makes the most sense. But it's not in anyway a good situation to be in. They're admitting mediocrity, and that the unique aspects of the studio are being replaced. They might as well be EA or Ubisoft at that point, undercutting the whole marketing appeal of the studio in the first place ("We're different! Trust us.").

The fact they say "expansion(s)" plural means they clearly intended at least 2. Hard to interpret that any other way if that quote is real.
It's funny because then Cyberpunk drops.. like a turd in the toilet and they immediately step back and say "euch fuck this.. let's cut it".. They were announcing pretty early on that there was only gonna be one expansion (post release) so I think they pretty quickly wanted to call it quits.

THEN Edgerunners dropped and the game exploded again on steam.. which led to a few cyberpunk developers sorta alluding "oh maybe more content will come then.. hue hue".

I think where it stands now.. they are moving onto Witcher 4 and that's it. We might get some more bullshit DLC.. maybe a Santa Sled Car or some stupid bullshit.. but otherwise it's OVA.

--
I am curious though, they hired a buncha mod creators to work full time on this game.. but nothing seems to of came out of that.
These mod makers were pumping shit out like crazy then once they got a fat polish paycheck their output died.

I don't think they ever wanted to abandon the franchise completely. They plowed too much money into it, they own it, etc. So it was there. They wanted to cash in on it eventually--the idea was let the outrage die down, come back to it after Witcher 4, release a new game when people are chill about it, and get back to the original gameplan of milking it for maximum money, probably eventually have a MP game, etc.

I don't think the plans really changed much in the long run, just the messaging around them. For me the thing that really dimmed my view of them as a studio was abandoning RedEngine. It shows a complete lack of confidence in themselves, and is especially ironic when you hear Youtubers now talking about how impressive 2.0 Cyberpunk is because of Red Engine and think about it for one second. Oh, cool, so that's all... gone? Good luck.
 

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,069
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
I don't think they ever wanted to abandon the franchise completely. They plowed too much money into it, they own it, etc. So it was there. They wanted to cash in on it eventually--the idea was let the outrage die down, come back to it after Witcher 4, release a new game when people are chill about it, and get back to the original gameplan of milking it for maximum money, probably eventually have a MP game, etc.

I don't think the plans really changed much in the long run, just the messaging around them. For me the thing that really dimmed my view of them as a studio was abandoning RedEngine. It shows a complete lack of confidence in themselves, and is especially ironic when you hear Youtubers now talking about how impressive 2.0 Cyberpunk is because of Red Engine and think about it for one second. Oh, cool, so that's all... gone? Good luck.

I dunno..

They lost a lot of their core development team from burn out on Witcher 3 and it shows.. whatever engine developers they have left are probably much better served working on the game itself.
I don't think Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing personally. They have great artists and the lighting can look good sometimes.. but sometimes the game looks like ass. Bethesda has the same problem with Starfield.

Frankly it's probably the right decision. I don't think {current_year} CDPR has the talents in-house to do Engine development anymore. Look at their last year company photo.. the company is flush with Bioware rejects and interns..

Regarding that article, if they are moving to Unreal Engine I guess we can kiss modding goodbye.
Silly me thinking CDPR was serious about making their games more mod friendly.

"Kiss Modding Goodbye" What mods? I'm browsing top 50 mods for Cyberpunk and it's all clothing and small script mods. It's junk.
Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk are anything but "mod friendly" games. They ship a command line tool for unpacking / packing assets and in the case of Witcher 3, break their own tool every patch and often don't even bother to fix it.

Unreal is fairly moddable and has a built in devkit that you can ship with the game that allows full modification of Levels / Pak files / Blueprints. This would be something much closer to what Bethesda gives you.
 
Last edited:

Nathaniel3W

Rockwell Studios
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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
I just don't play games at launch. By the time I buy a game for 50% off, most of the bugs have been patched. My $30 copy of Cyberpunk 2077 worked pretty well. I look forward to playing a $15 copy of Phantom Liberty, hopefully when the level scaling has been removed.
 

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