Cyberpunk 2077 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[ColonelTeacup]

I'd rather everyone's killable with a warning messge if you kill plot-required NPCs than some goofy invincibility shit, tbh.

Are you crazy? With the attention span of today's average player, Steam and Metacritic will be flooded with butthurt "reviews"

If that simple message from morrowind could effectively relay to my 12 year old brain that I fucked shit hard at the moment and to reload, then it is reasonable to assume the same still applies to the current generation of teens to adults.
The problem is not that people nowadays are dumber, but rather that we expect them to be and as such hold them to too low a standard, which allows the quality in games to degrades to such a degree to accommodate such stupidity, which was never necessary in the first place.

 

[Carrion]

Morrowind's approach was alright, but it was pretty rigid in the sense that you could screw up the main questline by killing some seemingly insignificant NPC that was not in any way directly related to the main story and only played a minuscule part in it. You could still finish the game, which was great, but New Vegas was more flexible in this regard. Bethesda's later efforts are a prime example on how not to do it, with insufferable, invulnerable fuckfaces rubbing their immortality to your face everywhere you go.

In the end it largely comes down to writing: don't give the player a reason to kill an NPC that cannot be killed. It was always obvious anyway that CP2077 wouldn't take the New Vegas route.

 

[Kem0sabe]

This is a non issue. This isn't fallout, this isn't a sandbox. This is a narrative driven action rpg, and just like the previous Witcher games, that garnered widespread acclaim here on the codex, people play it for the story, for the characters, for the cut scenes and world building.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'm sure you will all agree that not being able to kill everyone was what made Witcher 3 a very bad RPG. And an unsuccessful one too.

 

[Curratum]

I can't understand why people expect a game to do everything - to have completely freeform party creation, to be as involved as possible, have great mechanics and combat, allow great freedom of choice, but also, at the same time have amazingly written characters, an amazing, greatly detailed world and all that. There is nothing wrong with playing and enjoying Witcher 3 for the things it does well and loving it and enjoying some number cruncher for what it does well on its own terms. The perfect game does not exist, it never did and it never will.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

This is a non issue. This isn't fallout, this isn't a sandbox. This is a narrative driven action rpg, and just like the previous Witcher games, that garnered widespread acclaim here on the codex, people play it for the story, for the characters, for the cut scenes and world building.

I'm going to play it for the porn.

 

[Infinitron]

I think it's understandable that people might have different expectations from a game where you play a more blank-slate character than Geralt.

It's interesting that CD Projekt are kind of stepping away from the blank-slateness by putting Johnny Silverhand in your character's head. You're not just some guy now, you're the vessel for an Iconic Lore Celebrity™. It's a writing approach they're more familiar with.

 

[ColonelTeacup]

I think it's understandable that people might have different expectations for a game where you play a more blank-slate character than Geralt.

It's interesting that CD Projekt are kind of stepping away from the blank-slateness by putting Johnny Silverhand in your character's head. You're not just some guy now, you're the vessel for an Iconic Lore Celebrity(tm). It's a writing approach they're more familiar with.

Is he always watching though? During the trailer where you get done fucking the big russian dude. Was johnny watching him rail you through your eyes?

 

[Grotesque]

The problem is not that people nowadays are dumber

no, they're dumber.
especially in the west.
don't know the reasons, and frankly don't care.
but the writing is all over the walls

 

[luj1]

Unless they've changed stuff from last year it would seem to have better RPG elements.

What dumbed down shit is this? Waste of the PnP licence

 

[Herumor]

What dumbed down shit is this? Waste of the PnP licence

Did you seriously expect them to adapt the P&P game 100% faithfully?

Obviously, it'd be fucking amazing if they pulled all of this, but I don't think any game adapted from a PnP game has had much depth to character creation as the game originally allowed. Far too many variables to account for.

 

[luj1]

Did you seriously expect them to adapt the P&P game 100%

Clearly the only alternative is implementing a 1:1 carbon copy of PnP rules

 

[undecaf]

They’re kinda doing a similiar thing here to what Bethesda did with Fallout. Take the setting and a list of familiar names, then shuffle things a bit, and call it a day.

CDPR probably does that better, but from all that’s been shown and told, they could’ve as well just make a generic scifi dystopia of their own without ever involving 2020.

 

[Wesp5]

I think it's understandable that people might have different expectations for a game where you play a more blank-slate character than Geralt.

Still another option to avoid killing story-important NPCs would be to either keep them out of reach, like behind bulletproof glass, or have them protected so that if the player kills them, he will die in the following fight, so it's game over without seeming too forced.

It's interesting that CD Projekt are kind of stepping away from the blank-slateness by putting Johnny Silverhand in your character's head.

That is taken pretty much 1:1 out of William Gibson's book "Neuromancer", where Case uses the Dixie Flatline personality construct.

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

If that simple message from morrowind could effectively relay to my 12 year old brain that I fucked shit hard at the moment and to reload, then it is reasonable to assume the same still applies to the current generation of teens to adults.
The problem is not that people nowadays are dumber, but rather that we expect them to be and as such hold them to too low a standard

...most players never found Caius Cosades.

Still another option to avoid killing story-important NPCs would be to either keep them out of reach, like behind bulletproof glass

The real solution is to give the reasonable player no expectation of being able to and no reason to want to kill story-important npcs to begin with. How you convey the plot armor to the unreasonable player is going to be a cosmetic bandaid either way.

 

[Master]

I think it's understandable that people might have different expectations for a game where you play a more blank-slate character than Geralt.

It's interesting that CD Projekt are kind of stepping away from the blank-slateness by putting Johnny Silverhand in your character's head.

That is taken pretty much 1:1 out of William Gibson's book "Neuromancer", where Case uses the Dixie Flatline personality construct.

Nah, this is more like Cortana or Netricsa from Serious Sam, more probable inspirations for CDP.

 

[Zer0wing]

They’re kinda doing a similiar thing here to what Bethesda did with Fallout. Take the setting and a list of familiar names, then shuffle things a bit, and call it a day.

CDPR probably does that better, but from all that’s been shown and told, they could’ve as well just make a generic scifi dystopia of their own without ever involving 2020.

That's probably what happens. CDPR will take the story, events, characters, style of CP 2020, "put a '2077' spin on it" and leave the mechanics out of the equation. Reason why this is more acceptable here and even accepted by Mike (not because of money since if that was the case we'd see a CP 2020 video game way earlier) is because CDPR has proven to be more competent at this job than Bethesda since they have a first hand experience with it.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I think it's understandable that people might have different expectations for a game where you play a more blank-slate character than Geralt.

It's interesting that CD Projekt are kind of stepping away from the blank-slateness by putting Johnny Silverhand in your character's head. You're not just some guy now, you're the vessel for an Iconic Lore Celebrity(tm). It's a writing approach they're more familiar with.

Is he always watching though? During the trailer where you get done fucking the big russian dude. Was johnny watching him rail you through your eyes?

The real question is - is he watching during the porn scenes? In Deus Ex there was Jacobson and then the AI (in the player's head), but at least JC wasn't expected to have half-robotic sex in every other questline.

 

[RRRrrr]

How many important NPCs could you kill in Bloodlines? This feature is certainly not necessary to make a good RPG.

 

[DalekFlay]

This is a non issue. This isn't fallout, this isn't a sandbox. This is a narrative driven action rpg, and just like the previous Witcher games, that garnered widespread acclaim here on the codex, people play it for the story, for the characters, for the cut scenes and world building.

Yeah that's what I trying to say before but you said it better... it's a different kind of game, it was never going to be New Vegas in this way.

For a game like New Vegas I do think being able to kill everyone and still finish is the "gold standard." Morrowind would be number two I guess, but like Carrion said it was silly that you'd kill some random hobo and get the message, having no idea why. Some games are too character focused to do the New Vegas thing and I think having essential NPCs but only a very small number absolutely REQUIRED to finish the main quest (even in a crappy way) would maybe be the best compromise there. Bethesda's problem was they made half the NPCs in the game essential it felt like, for every little quest there was, which was insane. I think they got better with Skyrim and Fallout 4 though, to some degree.

 

[Grotesque]

 

[moon knight]

Neo Tokyo confirmed?

 

[aris]

 

[Darkzone]

What dumbed down shit is this? Waste of the PnP licence

Did you seriously expect them to adapt the P&P game 100% faithfully?

Spoiler

Obviously, it'd be fucking amazing if they pulled all of this, but I don't think any game adapted from a PnP game has had much depth to character creation as the game originally allowed. Far too many variables to account for.

Most of this was also useless shit or as i call it wasted years and tiresome history.

Roles:
Classes (Role) would have been great, but .... i don't see how they could have pulled it off. Also 99% would have played Solo, because Combat Sense is simply a killer skill. In all the settings that i have played nobody has ever played Media or Med Tech or Rockerboy class.

Then let us take a look at the Statistics:
STR, CON, REF, INT, TECH, CL are in. What lacks is ATT, LK, MA and EMP. STR and CON is in original BT or Body. EMP was important since this gave you the Humanity points to cyber up. But ATTR was nonsense or a dump stat since the only associated skill were: Personal Grooming and Wardrobe & Style. EMP and humanity points is also shit and should have been exchanged with a better system that makes more sense. As if losing a limb and using a prosthetics would make you loose your humanity and would make you go psycho.-- Hey look this guy is blind and has a deaf-aid! Look out for him, because he will try to kill you. --O no this woman has a prosthetic arm! She can certainly not Persuasion & Fast talk.

Skills:
This hurts for real, but 50% of them were also useless, like: Personal Grooming, Wardrobe & Style, Accounting, Antropology, Botany, Composition, Geology, History, Library Search, Mathematics (only useless in this game), Teaching, Zoology, Dance, Cryotank Operation, Photography & Film.
The system needed a clean up and why have Electronics and Electronic Security or Streetwise and Social and Anthropology or Hide/Evade and Shadow/Track as separated skills.

 

[Kem0sabe]

I think it's understandable that people might have different expectations for a game where you play a more blank-slate character than Geralt.

It's interesting that CD Projekt are kind of stepping away from the blank-slateness by putting Johnny Silverhand in your character's head. You're not just some guy now, you're the vessel for an Iconic Lore Celebrity(tm). It's a writing approach they're more familiar with.

The character isn't such a blank slate. It's fully voiced, it's named, it has one of 3 back stories that feature extensively during the game, and as you say, has reeves voicing off his/her decisions during gameplay.

Cyberpunk isn't much of a departure from cdprojekts confort zone. The world might be bigger, the view point might be different, but it's still a cinematic rpg.