D&D 5E Discussion

[Reinhardt]

If I can polymorth an NPC to look like Tatiana, I can exploit his weakness. Obviously I would need to find info about her, a portrait of her and if he suspects anything, he can try to cast dispel on her only to be sure. Is not a perfect plan. And that is what makes Ravenloft so amazing. Your plans will probably gonna to fail hard.

It can work only because you know about her even before starting campaign. I would like to see you planning to overtake big bad wolf from scratch, without meta.

 

[Cryomancer]

Yep. It is a plan that require a lot of investigation by the PC's parts, a lot of "lore checks" and so on. But as I've said, most parties wound't even see the dark lord and would die to the minions of the minions. Only if they are very smart and lucky, they could come with a plan after a lot of sessions. The party should be extremely weaker than the Dark Lord. If the Dark Lord can cast 8th tier magic, the party should be limited to 6th or 5th tier magic(depending the party size). If the dark lord has a +5 weapon that deals +2d6 elementall damage, the party should be limited to +3 weapons. And to be clear(since people love to distort what I an saying), I an not saying starting the campaign with this spells/weapons. I an saying the power which the players should expect to reach in that campaign.

Dark Lord should be a out of reach villain in lore and in gameplay and the party defeating then should be the exception of the exception, not the rule.

I also wanna to see a extreme Zealot Paladin who become a Dark Lord due his fanaticism. That would be cool.

 

[aleph]

But as I've said, most parties wound't even see the dark lord and would die to the minions of the minions. ... The party should be extremely weaker than the Dark Lord. If the Dark Lord can cast 8th tier magic, the party should be limited to 6th or 5th tier magic(depending the party size). If the dark lord has a +5 weapon that deals +2d6 elementall damage, the party should be limited to +3 weapons.

And again you prove that you can't see beyond spell levels and bonuses, and think about everything in terms of supposedly awesome battles.

What you described could as well be part of a campaign in the forgotten realms, or eberron or whatever, because nothing of it is specific to horror. Just a powerful (always more powerful than the party by design) antagonist and his minions, and if they reach him the players get to fight him in an epic (epic!!!) boss battle.

 

[Bara]

So got to play my first 5e game start at level 1. It's... fine.

The other party members are enjoyable and the DM is facilitating good role play but mechanically so far combat is kind of boring. We are start at level 1 so maybe when we hit level 3 for sub classes and both foes and allies having more abilities will make it more engaging?

Though I've had fun with level 1 game play in the older editions and other games so I think it's just missing the feeling of you can die here. Especially with the three death saving throw rolls to actually die. For those DMing for 5e is this just the way it is and why a lot of groups just start at level 3 or we've just had weak encounters so far?

 

[Larianshill]

For those DMing for 5e is this just the way it is and why a lot of groups just start at level 3 or we've just had weak encounters so far?

There are two types of DnD games - the ones where the enemies go after the downed PCs, and the ones where they don't. Obviously, they're much different beasts. In the second type, PCs rarely ever die on their own - the party either lives as one, or they die as one, because the encounter was too much to handle.
It's important to note that retreat is very rarely an option in 5E, unless you're fine with leaving some of your friends to die. Most creatures have the same speed as you, and a lot of them have a higher speed.

 

[Cryomancer]

nd think about everything in terms of supposedly awesome battles.

Please. Stop distorting what I say. I din't said that ravenloft is about battles. Just tried to make clear that players have to fell extremely weaker than the foes and that it is one elements needed to create a dread atmosphere. I din't said that is the unique element, nor the most important element. You are putting words into my mouth again. Saying that I wanna a "epic boss battle", when I said clearly "party defeating then should be the exception of the exception, not the rule." I also mentioned that a Paladin Dark Lord would be cool, because you will have a unique horror scenario where people living in his realm will gonna be ruled by a extremely zealot Dark Lord. It could lead to paranoia and a unique scenario.

I din't mentioned the specific horror aspects of Ravenloft because each dark lord and his realm is vastly different. You have horror scenarios on ancient Egypt, a theater, a alien mindflayer colony, ghost ships and many others. And in general, it is up to the DM skills and is not easy to DM rightfully most of Ravenloft campaigns.

Imagine the same talk about Cars.
Person A : "I love Ferrari, their engine is so awesome because (...)"
You : "So cars are only engines for you? I din't heard you talking about other Ferrari parts. You only wanna to break speed limits. You only care about speed, what about handling? Safety?"

facilitating good role play but mechanically so far combat is kind of boring.

Be cautious. You are not allowed to not like low level D&D here. It is considered a form of heresy. For some people, preferring a higher or mid level D&D adventures is the worst heresy ever. People see mid level D&D as a greater decline than Diablo 3. I an not joking.

 

[Larianshill]

Your victim complex is astounding.

 

[Mortmal]

So got to play my first 5e game start at level 1. It's... fine.

The other party members are enjoyable and the DM is facilitating good role play but mechanically so far combat is kind of boring. We are start at level 1 so maybe when we hit level 3 for sub classes and both foes and allies having more abilities will make it more engaging?

Though I've had fun with level 1 game play in the older editions and other games so I think it's just missing the feeling of you can die here. Especially with the three death saving throw rolls to actually die. For those DMing for 5e is this just the way it is and why a lot of groups just start at level 3 or we've just had weak encounters so far?

Usually make a short introduction adventure that will bring them to 2. Before starting tomb of annihilation i started with cellar of death , Cellar of Death - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild (dmsguild.com) , i hate sessions zero with boring medieval conversation simulator. Then they started TOA main module at level 2. Level 1 are too squishy , a crit can down them, if you do it ruthlessly you keep attacking downed character,its certain death. Its not fun to anyone, a waste of time recreating characters too , so at least a second level give some leeway.
If level 1 is boring then the pace is too slow and/or encounter poorly though. You can already do some nice stuff even at low levels. Dont get it wrong 5e can be absolutely ruthless and deadly, it's all on the DM shoulders, he chose to make it easy for you.

 

[Nortar]

You are not allowed to not like low level D&D here. It is considered a form of heresy. For some people, preferring a higher or mid level D&D adventures is the worst heresy ever. People see mid level D&D as a greater decline than Diablo 3. I an not joking.

 

[Bara]

Table of contents for the new ravenloft book

Spoiler

 

[Cryomancer]

Table of contents for the new ravenloft book

Spoiler

Since there is the Sea of Sorrows, does the book put stats on me, Meredoth? Pls say no, pls say no, pls say no...

The islands of the Sea of Sorrows on mistpedia : http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/The_Sea_of_Sorrows

the timeline

• Blaustein is a pirate haven ruled by the mad tyrant Bluebeard. Most visitors here will be met with violence either at the hands of its ruler or his fanatically loyal people. Very few foreign ships that manage to escape ever deign to return. Bluebeard and his domain are described in Darklords[7] (p.22-27).Non-canon information can be found in Quoth the Raven Issue 19.

• Carcharodon Isle A small island with but a single hamlet of 100 people called Mistlington. It is ruled by the government of Darkon.[11]

• Dominia A former island of terror, this tiny island is home only to the the Asylum for the Mentally Disturbed and its director, Dr. Daclaud Heinfroth. This place is most fully explored in the Bleak House Boxed Set[7]

• The Finger is a small chain of notoriously dangerous islands, most notably the Isle of Agony and the Isle of Demise. The Finger is off of the northwest coast of Lamordia. Whereas the Isle of Agony is actually apart of Lamordia, Demise is its own domain. Details on the latter can be found in Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium Appendix I & II, whereas details on the latter can be found in Adam's Wrath[9] and [[Gazetteer II].

• Ghastria A small island containing only the village of East Riding, Ghastria is one of the few friendly ports for sailors from the mainland. This small island is notable mostly for the fact that any home-grown food tastes inevitably utterly bland, leaving the island always desiring food imported from the mainland. It is fortunate that Marquis Stezen D’Polarno, Ghastria's ruler, maintains good relations with merchants. Darklords has the most details of all canon products on the Marquis[7], but noncanon information can be found in both the Book of Souls and the Nocturnal Sea Gazetteer.

• Gustavstan An island far, far west of Dementlieu, Gustavstan has destablized as the Gustav Baronial Family has fallen into inner turmoil. Despite Falkovnia not being a naval power, Gustavstan was formerly on good terms with them, though this relationship has started to fray.[12]

• Hibernate sits in between Demise and Markovia. Culturally advanced, the society is tainted by rampant hypocrisy and extremely imperialistic attitudes. A repressive church stems to curb wanton ways of sin, yet the domain is overflowing with debauchery. A republic in theory, it runs as an oligarchy in practice. Some limited trade is conducted with Lamordia and elsewhere in the Core, but the trade embargo ordered by the Church of Hibernate restricts trade to those converted. (In effect, this cuts trade to a minimum.)[13]

• The Isle Right off the coast of Mordent, the nameless Isle is home only to Dr. Blake Ramsay. For details on this tiny domain, see Dungeon Magazine #76 (1997)[14]

• Markovia, formerly a temperate domain in the mainland of the Core, became a tropical island in the Sea of Sorrows following [the Grand Conjunction]]. However, to date every single human colonization attempt has failed. The island is not totally uninhabited, as it is the home of Dr. Frantisek Markov and his beastmen. Neither Man Nor Beast is the product with the most information on Markovia.[15]

• Virisa, ruled by the despotic Lord Willem Ducas and his Disciples of Virisa, is 30 miles to the south of Blaustein. It has a sizable human population (approximately 20,000), but foreigners are only allowed to trade with the people the coastal cities of Telgan and The City of Virisa. Native merchants are relatively small in number.[16]

Talking about seas, does 5E has rules for naval combat? I only had a single naval combat on my S&W campaign and loved. Was by far one of the most interesting parts of the game.

 

[Bara]

I think Ghosts of Saltmarsh had something on navel rules maybe? Haven't looked at the book.

 

[Catacombs]

For those DMing for 5e is this just the way it is and why a lot of groups just start at level 3 or we've just had weak encounters so far?

You likely had weak encounters. But if you want a more "hardcore" game, perhaps you could talk to your DM about how that can be implemented. Maybe cutting down the number of death saving throws from three to one.

 

[Cryomancer]

I think Ghosts of Saltmarsh had something on navel rules maybe? Haven't looked at the book.

Thanks. Because sea of sorrows has a lot of interesting dark lords. Captain Pieter van Riese, a ship captain who is obcessed with reaching a place and has a tragic story, Bluebeard a tyrannical pirate who loves to kidnap woman, Elizabeth Michelle Cole III a vampiress controlling a republic(Hibernate), Markovia, ruled by a beastman and his subjects, to not mention Meredoth, the Dark/High fantasy of a "mad scientist" who grew up in a magecentric empire(Alphatia). I an happy to see that Meredoth din't got stats on 5e but sad to see that this iconic region, sea of horrors only got one page. They probably decided to not include much due the lack of "naval rules", you will gonna need to sail in a sea of sorrows adventure.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

5E is gay.

GO play back ADnD 2nd ED or max 3.x Ed

 

[Larianshill]

No.

 

[Bara]

For those DMing for 5e is this just the way it is and why a lot of groups just start at level 3 or we've just had weak encounters so far?

You likely had weak encounters. But if you want a more "hardcore" game, perhaps you could talk to your DM about how that can be implemented. Maybe cutting down the number of death saving throws from three to one.

Yeah probably is the case but I'm going to wait till we get further along as its only been session one and feels rude to ask for potential changes so early. Might be waiting to throw meaner things at us after a couple levels.

5E is gay.

GO play back ADnD 2nd ED or max 3.x Ed

I mean I'll play it all so long as I have fun. Except maybe 4e?

I might need to try to find a 4e game again one day to try it later as pretty much what time I spent in that edition went down the memory hole.

 

[Snorkack]

Speaking of more hardcore rules. Did anyone try using the 5e Hardcore Rules from Runehammer?
They seem to be mentioned quite a lot on the youtubes and sound interesting.
Not sure how the Character Level == Spell Level makes it more hardcore though, I'd imagine it makes casters more powerful eben quicker. Sounds more like a SorcererVictor thing to suggest...

 

[Anonona]

SorcererVictor

Excuse me, shitlord. Stop deadnaming Victor. Xir name now is Meredoth, and xir is no longer a sorcerer, but a wizard!

 

[aleph]

... xir is no longer a sorcerer, but a wizard!

Like there is any difference, they all burn the same on the stake.

 

[Cryomancer]

... xir is no longer a sorcerer, but a wizard!

Like there is any difference, they all burn the same on the stake.

Why this hate towards casters? Did a enchantress turned you into her slave? Did some pyromaniac evoker burned your poor village?

Sounds more like a Meredoth thing to suggest...

Nope. I said many times that I prefer casters with slower XP growth from 2E, with D4 hit points and would prefer more dangerous magic, and think that a Wizard should have a "field of research" and learn spells which makes sense from his research field, instead of having hundreds of spells to solve any problem. A Sorcerer, should learn spells which makes sense for his bloodline. Also said many times that martial classes at high levels needs to become more "superhuman", not necessarily magical. One aspect of domains of dread which I love is that necromancy is far more powerful and risky. Twisting the wishes and limited wishes, requiring power checks and corrupting PC's depending on the spell usage and conjuration is also risky there.

Quoting the page 291 of Domains of Dread for 2E

And despite all of my "mockery" of calling Dwarves manlets, I also believe that Dwarves should be able to craft incredible powerful things on high level. If you look to mythology, most of iconic "weapons of Gods" from Norse mythology, was made by the Dwarves. In traditional fantasy, a lot of powerful things are also made by Dwarves, Berserk( a manga, I know), the Berserk Armor was made by Dwarves. Allowing high level dwarves to craft this things would be a more accurate translate of then from mythology into game mechanics.

 

[Reinhardt]

Why this hate towards casters? Did someone enchantress turned you into her slave? Did some pyromaniac evoker burned your poor village?

Why hate towards manlets? Did some halfling made you watch how he fucks your summoned succubus?

I said many times that I prefer casters with slower XP growth from 2E

Why do you even care if you don't play low level characters? Afraid of rivals catching up?

 

[Snorkack]

SorcererVictor

Excuse me, shitlord. Stop deadnaming Victor. Xir name now is Meredoth, and xir is no longer a sorcerer, but a wizard!

Naming himself like that is blatant cultural appropriation of marginalized 2nd edition lore. It's disrespectful to adorn oneself with 2e's rich heritage as if it were some fashionable thing to do. I'm not down with that.

Nope. I said many times that I prefer casters with slower XP growth from 2E, with D4 hit points and would prefer more dangerous magic, and think that a Wizard should have a "field of research" and learn spells which makes sense from his research field, instead of having hundreds of spells to solve any problem. A Sorcerer, should learn spells which makes sense for his bloodline. Also said many times that martial classes at high levels needs to become more "superhuman", not necessarily magical. One aspect of domains of dread which I love is that necromancy is far more powerful and risky. Twisting the wishes and limited wishes, requiring power checks and corrupting PC's depending on the spell usage and conjuration is also risky there.

I obviously only mentioned you mockingly, but 5E Hardcore Mode Rules does many of the things you mentioned (xp curve different for each class, spells can fail catastrophically, less available spells, ...) and also decreases average hitpoints on all sides by a big margin. Maybe you should actually check it out.

 

[Cryomancer]

Why do you even care if you don't play low level characters?

Yep. I avoid playing low level characters, but a lot of people do enjoy low level D&D. And this -xp gain affect casters mostly on mid levels. On low levels, the difference on XP gain is not THAT big.

Naming himself like that is blatant cultural appropriation of marginalized 2nd edition lore. It's disrespectful to adorn oneself with 2e's rich heritage as if it were some fashionable thing to do. I'm not down with that.

In order to something be cultural appropriation, someone outside of that culture needs to try to appropriate it. I play S&W, I read a lot of books for 2E, played some 2E settings like Dark Sun on 3E about a decade ago. I loved and tried to promote 2E CRPG adaptations like Dark Sun : Wake of the ravager. And Sea of Sorrows is now on 5E. People will gonna convert Meredoth stats into 5E if they din't did it already(which is the REAL cultural appropriation). On my sig, there is a link so everyone can read the Meredoth story which is pretty interesting.

5E Hardcore Mode Rules does many of the things you mentioned (xp curve different for each class, spells can fail catastrophically, less available spells, ...) and also decreases average hitpoints on all sides by a big margin. Maybe you should actually check it out.

I will check it. Seems interesting.

 

[Gyor]

Dark lords are already nerfed. I seem to recall that Strahd used to have dragons and shit under his command, none of that anymore. The most powerful of his minion is some elf, and his vampire spawn. And for God's sake, don't start whining about the good old days when Strahd did have dragons.

Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft is supposed offer support for higher level adventures in Barovaria.