D&D 5E Discussion

[Rahdulan]

That rant about health points and point buy system in part 2 was hilarious.

In my day zero meant zero!

 

[Infinitron]

Well now: http://spoonyexperiment.com/counter-monkey/counter-monkey-dd-5th-edition-review-part-1/

Part two: http://spoonyexperiment.com/counter-monkey/counter-monkey-dd-5th-edition-review-part-2/

 

[LeStryfe79]

Can't wait to get wasted tomorrow after work and watch the Spoony vids.

Spoiler

I bought the fucking book.

 

[nikolokolus]

18:20 (part 2) is priceless.

 

[TigerKnee]

Some rather retarded complaints in the video like complaining about Half-Orcs being a core race though. Weren't they playable in all editions except 2E?

 

[nikolokolus]

Depends on how old ... er .. how far you go back. Half-orcs were introduced in the AD&D 1st ed. books, but weren't part of OD&D or B/X. Stupid complaint on grognardia grounds though. There sure as fuck weren't any goddamned paladin half-orcs though.

 

[J1M]

It is rather impressive how much factually incorrect information made him upset. The only value I see in his review is watching a man with a predetermined opinion scramble desperately to justify said opinion to himself.

 

[m_s0]

18:20 (part 2) is priceless.

Wasn't 4e the same in that respect? And didn't he love 4e?

Besides, guys, you're missing the real issues here. He still has no fucking set for this. I'm not watching that shit until he gets a set. And some props, and a costume. We need storylines and Insano in these videos, STAT.

Anyone up for summarizing or editing this into something manageable?

 

[Caim]

Anyone up for summarizing or editing this into something manageable?

Sure thing.

- The tone of the art is inconsistent: some stuff throws back to the old times (but looks modern), while other stuff looks more comic book-y.
- It tries throwing back to the days of yore, but fails because of modern comforts (like not dying at 0 hp: instead you get to save vs death).
- Multiclassing is a basic tool of survival instead of munchkin bullshit: a Wizard who takes a level in Fighter will become proficient in all armor, meaning they can cast without chance of failure from their armor (which has been scrapped in its entire: if you're proficient in armor you can cast in it, if you're not then you cannot cast in it).
- Tieflings, Half-Orcs and Dragonborn still make no sense. Eladrin are no longer a playable race.
- Too much balancing: now everyone can play everything, likely to prevent the stuff like "Why is my half-orc such a bad wizard? Why can't he be as good a wizard as an elf?"
- Death rolls are always the same for everyone, which makes no sense.
- Cantrips are overpowered as fuck: they deal a ton of damage (d10 for a small fireball) and can be cast at will.
- Explaination text for races and classes is more about painting a scene than telling you what a Paladin is all about (and they fuck that up too).
- The whole advantage/disadvantage thing will spawn entire Neurenberg Trials worth of arguing if a player has advantage or not (The sun's in my back! I took a sip of wine before combat and spit it in a dude's face! I kick up a cloud of dust!).
- Skills are determined by your race and class, and cannot be picked.
- The basics for Planescape are back.

 

[Alchemist]

I started watching Spoony's "review" and found him tedious to listen to and he was taking forever to get to the point so I gave up. I'd be curious to read a summary of his points but can't sit through the review right now. Maybe I'll listen to it when I'm really bored sometime.

 

[Alchemist]

aha thanks Caim - you ninjad a summary in just as I was posting!

 

[Azalin]

[QUOTE="m_s0, post: 3451836, member: 10931"
- It tries throwing back to the days of yore, but fails because of modern comforts (like not dying at 0 hp: instead you get to save vs death).
- Multiclassing is a basic tool of survival instead of munchkin bullshit: a Wizard who takes a level in Fighter will become proficient in all armor, meaning they can cast without chance of failure from their armor (which has been scrapped in its entire: if you're proficient in armor you can cast in it, if you're not then you cannot cast in it).
.

WTF is this shit?Putting a % for failing to cast with armor was one of the best things 3e did and they removed it now?

 

[m_s0]

Anyone up for summarizing or editing this into something manageable?

Sure thing.

- The tone of the art is inconsistent: some stuff throws back to the old times (but looks modern), while other stuff looks more comic book-y.
- It tries throwing back to the days of yore, but fails because of modern comforts (like not dying at 0 hp: instead you get to save vs death).
- Multiclassing is a basic tool of survival instead of munchkin bullshit: a Wizard who takes a level in Fighter will become proficient in all armor, meaning they can cast without chance of failure from their armor (which has been scrapped in its entire: if you're proficient in armor you can cast in it, if you're not then you cannot cast in it).
- Tieflings, Half-Orcs and Dragonborn still make no sense. Eladrin are no longer a playable race.
- Too much balancing: now everyone can play everything, likely to prevent the stuff like "Why is my half-orc such a bad wizard? Why can't he be as good a wizard as an elf?"
- Death rolls are always the same for everyone, which makes no sense.
- Cantrips are overpowered as fuck: they deal a ton of damage (d10 for a small fireball) and can be cast at will.
- Explaination text for races and classes is more about painting a scene than telling you what a Paladin is all about (and they fuck that up too).
- The whole advantage/disadvantage thing will spawn entire Neurenberg Trials worth of arguing if a player has advantage or not (The sun's in my back! I took a sip of wine before combat and spit it in a dude's face! I kick up a cloud of dust!).
- Skills are determined by your race and class, and cannot be picked.
- The basics for Planescape are back.

Thanks.

I started watching Spoony's "review" and found him tedious to listen to and he was taking forever to get to the point so I gave up.

Yup. Compare:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIqtMFCFIc0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqbB-Vuutng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJYV6-nlbo0

 

[Rahdulan]

- The whole advantage/disadvantage thing will spawn entire Neurenberg Trials worth of arguing if a player has advantage or not (The sun's in my back! I took a sip of wine before combat and spit it in a dude's face! I kick up a cloud of dust!).

Couldn't they have just introduced minor and major advantage/disadvantage for some degree of accuracy? I realize not everyone likes having to add a fistful of modifiers to every goddamn roll they make, but boiling it down to just positive or negative is some serious oversimplification. Then again I suppose they could've done a complete 180 and went with something completely different. That would've been a shitstorm to behold.

 

[Caim]

Also, another of Spoony's complaints was that it doens't teach new players what D&D is about. He called 4e (and I'm agreeing with him on this) and easy to get into, but 5e is a lot more difficult for newbies.

And the Drow are a core player race. Beceause Drizzt. No really, they pretty much say that. Spoony does add that doing this in a Dragonlance setting (which is talked a LOT about in this book for some reason) is a Bad Idea because of something called the Kinslayer War (or something, I don't know about Dragonlance). In the back of the book they do mention several settings and their deities: Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance and Eberron. It also makes mention of the Greek, Egyptian, Norse and Celtic (who hasn't been in since Planescape!) religions. Which is a good thing for guys like me, who like the theme of the petty squabbles of gods in their stories.

 

[J1M]

- The whole advantage/disadvantage thing will spawn entire Neurenberg Trials worth of arguing if a player has advantage or not (The sun's in my back! I took a sip of wine before combat and spit it in a dude's face! I kick up a cloud of dust!).

Couldn't they have just introduced minor and major advantage/disadvantage for some degree of accuracy? I realize not everyone likes having to add a fistful of modifiers to every goddamn roll they make, but boiling it down to just positive or negative is some serious oversimplification. Then again I suppose they could've done a complete 180 and went with something completely different. That would've been a shitstorm to behold.

It is important to note that just because he said that list of things doesn't mean any of them are accurate. The majority of his whining is based on incorrect information. Advantage is just like a +modifier. You only get it when the rules specifically call it out. Additionally, disadvantage cancels out advantage, which leads to a degree of what you are asking for: "my +3 AC on disadvantage to opportunity attacks cancels out his +4 to advantage on opportunity attacks while prone", etc.

 

[Don Peste]

Spanish distributor says 5e will not be translated to Spanish, nor French, German, etc.

 

[m_s0]

It won't be translated, period (at least that's the policy for the time being):

AN IMPORTANT NOTICE ABOUT "D&D NEXT"
Thank you very much for your continued patronage of Dungeons & Dragons (D&D).

Since January of 2013, we have been engaging in promotional activities, primarily through "Table Game Channel", on the assumption of making the transtion from D&D 4th Edition to D&D Next. However, Wizards of the Coast, the publisher of D&D, has decided to sell only English versions of D&D Next, and not put out a license for translations. This applies not only to Japan, but all non-English language regions.
As a result, we cannot release a Japanese version of D&D Next.
We deeply apologize that we can meet the expectations of everyone who was looking forward to a Japanese version of D&D Next.

As a company, we will wait for an opportunity to do the translation, taking in account the possiblity that Wizards of the Coast may change their policy, but we must announce here that for the time being, there is no plan to publish Japanese versions of D&D Next merchandise.

From the bottom of our hearts, we thank everyone who has supported the Japanese versions of D&D over the 10 years since the Japanese release of D&D 3rd Edition.

Eiji Nakabayashi
Game Development Department
Hobby Japan, Inc.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...D-NEXT/page3&p=6325046&viewfull=1#post6325046

I have no idea why this is the case or how it might benefit WotC.

 

[nikolokolus]

Between no translations and no word yet on third party publishers being able to publish adventures using the 5th edition rules, I get the feeling the D&D brand really could face an uphill climb trying to regain market share from Paizo. Matt Finch (Swords & Wizardry Complete and Frog God Games guy) had an interesting blog post about this: http://swordsandwizardry.blogspot.com/2014/08/do-or-die-for-5e-d-third-party.html

 

[Night Goat]

- Too much balancing: now everyone can play everything, likely to prevent the stuff like "Why is my half-orc such a bad wizard? Why can't he be as good a wizard as an elf?"

What I've been hearing is the opposite: ability scores are so important now that you will only play the race that provides the modifiers your class needs most. Some races will never be played - the tiefling for example, provides a +1 to intelligence, which is now useless for everyone but a wizard - and the wizard will be playing something with a +2 to intelligence. Anyone else will choose a race that doesn't boost a dump stat.

 

[J1M]

- Too much balancing: now everyone can play everything, likely to prevent the stuff like "Why is my half-orc such a bad wizard? Why can't he be as good a wizard as an elf?"

What I've been hearing is the opposite: ability scores are so important now that you will only play the race that provides the modifiers your class needs most. Some races will never be played - the tiefling for example, provides a +1 to intelligence, which is now useless for everyone but a wizard - and the wizard will be playing something with a +2 to intelligence. Anyone else will choose a race that doesn't boost a dump stat.

Ability scores for mortals cap out at 20. Eventually everyone will have their primary stat granting +5 to rolls. Starting with a bonus is just a... bonus.

 

[Night Goat]

Eventually doesn't matter. Most games never make it to the upper levels, and if they do it will take a very long time. The bonuses you get at character creation are vastly more important than the ones you get months later, if at all.

 

[Melan]

Which reminds me, I am curious about the pace of progression in 5e. A lot of the problems that cropped up in 3.x were due to the ease with which a regular campaign could get up to the higher levels, which were badly playtested and allowed a lot of the ridiculous crap 3.x got known for. How does it work in 5e? I guess anyone can do the spreadsheets, but how'bout actual play?

 

[Telengard]

Between no translations and no word yet on third party publishers being able to publish adventures using the 5th edition rules, I get the feeling the D&D brand really could face an uphill climb trying to regain market share from Paizo. Matt Finch (Swords & Wizardry Complete and Frog God Games guy) had an interesting blog post about this: http://swordsandwizardry.blogspot.com/2014/08/do-or-die-for-5e-d-third-party.html

WotC's goal this time around looks to be capturing all the people currently playing 1st and 2nd ed and wrap them up with 4th ed and unconverted 3rd ed players, and so do an end run around Paizo, instantly launching themselves into market dominance without having to take a single Pathfinder player back away from Paizo. Seems a rather tall order to place on 5th ed books, getting everyone back into buying the latest version. But if WotC actually succeeds, however they dilly dally with 3rd party licensing and translations won't matter, since everyone will batting down their door to sign with them. Market dominance is all.

 

[J1M]

Also, another of Spoony's complaints was that it doens't teach new players what D&D is about. He called 4e (and I'm agreeing with him on this) and easy to get into, but 5e is a lot more difficult for newbies.

Forgot to comment on this earlier. It is a stupid argument and one I would like to see die. Asking for it is basically asking for things to be dumbed down. The reverse was used as a primary complaint against 4e. (Regardless of whether or not it was true.)

Furthermore, the hypothetical, barely conscious, customers we are talking about aren't going to base any decisions on what is written in said books. Just like with CoD, DotA, WoW, etc. they will go out and purchase whatever product their peer groups have told them is cool.

Finally, the first 5 pages of the book are dedicated to explaining exactly what D&D is about, why people find it fun, etc.