D&D 5E Discussion

[mediocrepoet]

Think of Aragorn, for instance, a master survivalist, one in a generation. That can't be implemented with 5E. The old 1-20 system was a bit crazy, no system needs that many different degrees of expertise on a skill, but replacing it with binary may be a net loss.

This is a decent example, and I think the main thing would be to adjust how you think of skills. Someone like Aragorn might be a range with an unusually high wisdom score (18-20 range?). This seems consistent with the character in the books.

In WEG D6, skills are based primarily on attributes. You could become quite highly skilled even lacking a high attribute, but it was harder... making the system a bit strange in some ways since related skills were often beneath a single attribute. I feel that 5E is mildly similar in this regard and gets back to more of a 2E feel as far as skills/proficiencies are concerned. As you may recall, back then, proficiencies were based on attributes and were a binary Yes/No proposition.

On a different note: I've been finding some of the rules in 5E a bit haphazardly organized... like classes have favoured saving throws. I had no idea what those meant at first, but reading some other sources, it seems to be that they get their proficiency bonus added to them? Also, there is no more skill for opening locks or disarming traps now? As far as I could tell, it's based on perception checks for spotting things and dexterity checks for picking/disarming. Is that right? -- I've been meaning to take a closer reading of the rules, but I simply haven't had the time lately.

 

[LeStryfe79]

The 5ed PHB is very poorly organized. Picking locks, crafting, musical instruments, etc are actually tool proficiencies in the equipment section. Most characters get a couple of tool proficiencies from their background, but characters can learn them during down time as well. The proficiency bonus represents the major mechanic in the game and since it ranges from +2 to +6 the math never gets out of hand.

 

[DavidBVal]

This is a decent example, and I think the main thing would be to adjust how you think of skills. Someone like Aragorn might be a range with an unusually high wisdom score (18-20 range?). This seems consistent with the character in the books.

In WEG D6, skills are based primarily on attributes. You could become quite highly skilled even lacking a high attribute, but it was harder... making the system a bit strange in some ways since related skills were often beneath a single attribute. I feel that 5E is mildly similar in this regard and gets back to more of a 2E feel as far as skills/proficiencies are concerned. As you may recall, back then, proficiencies were based on attributes and were a binary Yes/No proposition.

Yes, that' s how 2E was, and at this point, listening to your opinions, I begin suspecting it is a matter of my personal preference.

I like the idea of more or less immutable stats, but skills that improve with experience. I am more appealed by your character learning better tricks to surviving or mixing potions than becoming wiser or more intelligent. As most people seem to be happy with on/off proficiencies, I'll just have to houserule and everybody's a winner.

Also, Aragorn having 20 WIS would still not make him a much better survivalist, would have a mere +2 compared to some decent high level ranger with 16 WIS. Likely some druids (if existed in middle-earth) would surpass him. Gandalf himself, would probably have even more WIS than Aragorn, wouldn't he? and he may even have the Survival skill, would be in-character. Certainly in 3E, he'd have a few points in survival, at least... see? I get the feeling we've lost moving-parts to describe characters properly.

I think skills, being more specialized and numerous, bring a better opportunity to make unique characters than stats. Stats only allow you to make 6 types of specialists, after all. Like I said, I'd have preferred moving to the 1-20 ranks to a 0-3 one.

On a different note: I've been finding some of the rules in 5E a bit haphazardly organized... like classes have favoured saving throws. I had no idea what those meant at first, but reading some other sources, it seems to be that they get their proficiency bonus added to them?

If I have understood the rules correctly, yes. You add the stat bonus to each save, and to the favoured ones, the proficiency bonus. If I interpret the rules correctly, this means that at high level you're doomed to fail certain saving throws, and reasonably safe from others (much like in 2E). I don't know what to make of it... sounds good, saving throws in 3E were difficult to pass, which rendered most damage spells useless. Maybe evokers will be the best attack wizards again? that would be nice.

 

[DavidBVal]

Use a @ before their user name. Usually auto-completes before you finish writing. Twitter works the same.

Irenaeus II thanks

 

[LeStryfe79]

Rangers also get a lot of class abilities that make them better survivalists beyond any skill bonus. A high level Aragorn world have been far ahead of a high level Cleric or whatnot in this regard. Also, Wisdom ends up being the best stat for Rangers that reach level 20. This isn't just because of the capstone either. If you check out the Ranger spell list, they can be extremely dangerous to foes that fail their saves.

 

[Irenaeus II]

I'd stick to forests if I was trying to survive as ranger to reach level 20, tho.

I was wrong, btw, the DMG doesn't say anything about training skills between adventuring. However, the PHB has this little section that could be used, I guess:

 

[LeStryfe79]

The Hunter is fine and Ensnaring Strike is OP as hell.

http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Ensnaring_Strike

All comes down to that Wisdom, man. I'd probably still rather make a bard with all those class specific Paladin/ Ranger/ Warlock spells.

 

[Irenaeus II]

That's a good one indeed, I had Ensnaring Strike in my Elf Paladin with Oath of the Ancients and it was really useful in a fight with a deranged Umber hulk.

 

[LeStryfe79]

That's a good one indeed, I had Ensnaring Strike in my Elf Paladin with Oath of the Ancients and it was really useful in a fight with a deranged Umber hulk.

Yeah, I'm letting the Devotion Paladin pass (DM gave me the option of making the characters), cause the fucker running it loves his undead and it's October. That elf character is delicious as an Ulminati dish though.

 

[Keldryn]

The 5ed PHB is very poorly organized. Picking locks, crafting, musical instruments, etc are actually tool proficiencies in the equipment section. Most characters get a couple of tool proficiencies from their background, but characters can learn them during down time as well. The proficiency bonus represents the major mechanic in the game and since it ranges from +2 to +6 the math never gets out of hand.

In terms of organization, I compare pretty much every new D&D book to the 1e DMG, so the 5e PHB is a paragon of organization.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Yes, but the 1ed DMG is basically a very long epic poem from the days of old.

 

[DavidBVal]

DnD players: How much hexcrawling does your campaign have?

zero. Even if I like wargames and tactical boardgames, I was never into grids of any kind with PnP RPGs

 

[tdphys]

4e required a grid; we played with minis and dwarven forge tiles/ sets of laminated printed maps + erase markers.

5e probably 65% theatre of the mind, some laminated cubic maps and erase markers... but we switched DM's and this might be as much a style issue

 

[LeStryfe79]

This is kind of shit since clearly most of the table was unfamiliar with 5ed D&D. The DM is actually really good though.

Oh okay, the DM is Matthew Mercer who plays English dub of Jotaro Kujo. No wonder he's good.

Edit. Okay I guess I haven't seen YouTube phenom "Critical Role" on Felicia Day's channel before. Well whatever the case, that DM could run a clinic on the craft.

 

[LeStryfe79]

My last 5ed adventure was about 65% Theatre of the Mind as well and the DM even used those words to describe it. We did use a dry erase map sparingly though.

 

[tuluse]

Hexcrawling as, moving through hexes on the world map and rolling for encounters.

In fact, fuck it, how are you people travelling from one adventuring spot to another
?

1) Pick number of encounters you want
2) Use some method to determine what encounters are (table with rolling, stat checks, etc)
3) have that many encounters

 

[Neanderthal]

Been twenty or so years since I last used miniatures or floorplans, I have my master map, players have a much more basic one they write notes on and fill up, and i've got encounter tables, index cards with small encounters and mini adventures as well as plot hooks and area details for interesting stuff they can stumble upon. Weather rolls i've got a little table for each season, pretty basic but it works and a little table for terrain and travelling impediments, which can be quite dramatic. Bridge gone, swollen river, wildfire, stampede etc.

Sometimes in a civilised area with decent roads the players short journeys can be summed up in a sentence or so, though they are welcome to build on this themselves, scenes round campfire, chatting with or manipulating each other. Then again sometimes a thrown hoof, a toll house for the upkeep of the road, a travelling merchant, a wanderer, a passing hunt or a group of pilgrims can liven up even the most simple journey, add detail and flavour without any real effort.

 

[DavidBVal]

Been twenty or so years since I last used miniatures or floorplans, I have my master map, players have a much more basic one they write notes on and fill up, and i've got encounter tables, index cards with small encounters and mini adventures as well as plot hooks and area details for interesting stuff they can stumble upon. Weather rolls i've got a little table for each season, pretty basic but it works and a little table for terrain and travelling impediments, which can be quite dramatic. Bridge gone, swollen river, wildfire, stampede etc.

Sometimes in a civilised area with decent roads the players short journeys can be summed up in a sentence or so, though they are welcome to build on this themselves, scenes round campfire, chatting with or manipulating each other. Then again sometimes a thrown hoof, a toll house for the upkeep of the road, a travelling merchant, a wanderer, a passing hunt or a group of pilgrims can liven up even the most simple journey, add detail and flavour without any real effort.

Yes, pretty much this. The travel is part of the adventure, too. I often used the encounters for some kind of foreshadowing as well; if they meet a travelling minstrel, maybe he tells them of a story that is somethat related to the quest later, even if at that point it's impossible to make the connection. If they'll meet a very dangerous poison encounter in the end of the campaign, I might introduce some poisoning as a warning. Sometimes to reinforce the difference between civilization and savage lands, I went detailed about how tasty is their food or comfortable the beds, or how terribly cold and damp the wasteland is by contrast. Of course, always with a sense of the pace and narrative! If they are at a certain point very focused on the main plot, I could entirely skip encounter or details.

I rarely rolled encounters, although my players believed I did.

 

[LeStryfe79]

We did half story and adventuring and half Donjon random dungeon. It was great.

 

[Neanderthal]

Ages ago I did use floor plans from Games Workshop, when they were more about AD&D than Warhammer, and they were pretty good. Think they were called Caverns of the Dead or somesuch, Gary Chalk picture of a skelly attacking a Dwarf on cover. Had some great times in that. Citadel mininatures were affordable then an all, though they were made o lead so needed painting wi at least a base coat.

 

[tdphys]

1) Pick number of encounters you want
2) Use some method to determine what encounters are (table with rolling, stat checks, etc)
3) have that many encounters

Hexcrawling as, moving through hexes on the world map and rolling for encounters.

In fact, fuck it, how are you people travelling from one adventuring spot to another
?

Ahh... in that case... our travel is all in the theatre of mind. The DM offers a bunch of different routes with days/weeks required and then rolls along the number of days for random encounters. I personally think that hexes/grids are great for tactical, but using them for strategic movement/ traveling is overkill. Just draw a nice map and estimate travel times.

 

[nikolokolus]

Ahh... in that case... our travel is all in the theatre of mind. The DM offers a bunch of different routes with days/weeks required and then rolls along the number of days for random encounters. I personally think that hexes/grids are great for tactical, but using them for strategic movement/ traveling is overkill. Just draw a nice map and estimate travel times.

If exploration is a central component of a campaign (as opposed to say a narrative driven campaign with an overarching metaplot) then hexcrawls (or pointcrawls) are a great way to go - especially if player character resources are limited.

Whenever I've run a hexcrawl I've found that it gives players the latitude to go and do almost anything they want without having to railroad them back on to some preset path. The other benefit is that it absolves the referee of any "guilt" if the players push themselves too far and stumble into something that they ought to have left alone.

 

[tuluse]

I love grids for combat and occasionally dungeon crawling (sometimes making players think very carefully about where they're walking is fun), but yeah I wouldn't use one for overworld travel.

I have seen some really intricate stuff other people have done which is cool, but just not for me.

 

[Morblot]

We just use pencils and squared paper for the dungeon maps and fighting. It's fast and cheap and doesn't take a lot of room on the table.

 

[Ulminati]

DnD players: How much hexcrawling does your campaign have?

We have a fancy setup with a projector mounted in the ceiling connected to a laptop running roll20.net
So quite a bit for D&D. Less so for other systems.