D&D Next rules discussion extravaganza!

[Quilty]

Having tried both DnD and Pathfinder, I still prefer Savage Worlds as a very flexible, streamlined ruleset that can be adjusted to any setting under the sun. "Fast, furious and fun", and often much easier for new players to get used to.

I've been meaning to give SW a try too. What's your favourite setting to play in?

I'm a big fan of Realms of Cthulhu. I found the original Call of Cthulhu rules way too complicated, and RoC pares it down to the SW standard. It also gives you the option to fine tune the rules to your preferences, so you can make the game more, or less deadly, depending on how you like it. There's tons of material out there for CoC, and it's easy to convert it into RoC because RoC main book comes with rules for conversion.

I also like Weird War, which is set in WW2. You play as US, UK or Russian soldiers fighting against the products of Nazi experimentation on humans, animals and the spawn from other dimensions, though it would perhaps be more Codexian to play as the poor Nazis.

 

[Grunker]

Savage Worlds as a very flexible, streamlined ruleset that can be adjusted to any setting under the sun.

GURPS

 

[Quilty]

I heard GURPS is also a good, flexible system, but according to some it's also very rule-heavy. SW streamlines that shit like it was made by Bioware. But it's fun!

 

[Grunker]

I heard GURPS is also a good, flexible system, but according to some it's also very rule-heavy. SW streamlines that shit like it was made by Bioware. But it's fun!

Savage Worlds is great fun, I really enjoy that system. But when you need depth - GURPS!

 

[catfood]

Having tried both DnD and Pathfinder, I still prefer Savage Worlds as a very flexible, streamlined ruleset that can be adjusted to any setting under the sun. "Fast, furious and fun", and often much easier for new players to get used to.

I've been meaning to give SW a try too. What's your favourite setting to play in?

I'm a big fan of Realms of Cthulhu. I found the original Call of Cthulhu rules way too complicated, and RoC pares it down to the SW standard. It also gives you the option to fine tune the rules to your preferences, so you can make the game more, or less deadly, depending on how you like it. There's tons of material out there for CoC, and it's easy to convert it into RoC because RoC main book comes with rules for conversion.

Yeah, ROC is cool but I would still use COC for short adventures. For lengthier campaigns like MON I would consider using ROC as it gives players better chances to survive, at least when it comes to encounters with humans. Otherwise I would have to pull a lot of punches if I want them to have a chance at finishing the campaign.

 

[Mother Russia]

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20120917

More shit. I was not a fan of 3e multiclassing nor PRCs. I guess Pathfinder really was doing pretty well, and 4e was doing shit as compared to 3e.

Great. Now I bet it is only a matter of time before WOTC releases a giant book of PrCs, with some utterly ridiculous classes with some utterly retarded, fringe abilities just to make $$$.

In face, making $$$ is what this edition is all about, much more than any prior edition, simply because Hasbro wants to go back to making as much money as 3e did. The dumbasses do not realize that is no longer possible due to the number of speciality and quality rpgs out in the market that cater to different playstyles, not to mention ppl do not like D&D as much as they used to (which again was primarily due to D&D being the only thing out there, and the fact that MMORPGS and Video Games and Console Games have taken away a large chunk of the audience. )

I hope Hasbro sells the D&D license. Let WOTC focus on M:tG, and let someone make D&D the way it should be made today: Gritty, grimdark, no retarded vancian magic, and with Demons called demons, not dumb shit Gygax made out of thinair like balors.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I use to think Vancian magic wasn't very realistic, but then I visited Prosper's Funhouse. I have since changed my way of thinking...

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Prosper's Funhouse is cool, but anyone who doesn't think that Vancian magic is realistic should read his very worthwhile Dying Earth series. Magic is like a living thing squirming its way in a magic-user's brain. He has to struggle to keep it contained, and when he releases it he is weaker in power, but also a little more focused on reality. The more practice a magic-user gets in containing the living magic in his head, the greater his capacity for holding more spells as he grows in experience.

I cannot see myself purchasing D&D Next. Between OSRIC, Dark Dungeons, Mazes and Minotaurs and Labyrinth Lords I have more than enough free Dungeons and Dragons games to play out on the net. Hell, I have physical copies of Castles and Crusades, 1st Edition AD&D and original BECMI Dungeons and Dragons at my house, and the folks at Dragonsfoot are making adventures for these. I find these games enjoyable and lack any real reason to "move on".

Link to Google Book's Sample of Jack Vance's Dying Earth: http://books.google.com/books?id=Y_HRpJHlylUC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q&f=false
Link to OSRIC: http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/
Link to Dark Dungeons: http://www.gratisgames.webspace.virginmedia.com/
Link to Labyrinth Lord: http://goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.html
Link to Mazes and Minotaurs: http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/revised.html
Link to Dragonsfoot's Resources Page, including materials for 1st ed AD&D, BECMI D&D, Castles and Crusades, Savage Worlds, Call of Cthulhu, Lejendary Adventures, Stormbringer, Hackmaster, Dragon Lords and more: http://www.dragonsfoot.org/

 

[J1M]

There are still 3rd edition games being made because the rule set is under the OGL.

4th edition was completely closed from what I understand.

Which route is D&D Next taking? Have they discussed this so far?

 

[evdk]

Good question, considering the 3E OGL has come to bite them in the ass in an epic fashion with the whole Pathfinder thing.

 

[Grunker]

They've at least said they wish it to be more open than 4th, and the amount of user feedback they've used in making the system certainly suggests that.

They've made no final statements on an OGL, though.

 

[J1M]

I think it is sad that we saw no 4e computer games when the system was clearly designed to drop in well to that environment.

My understanding is that something like Chaos Chronicles has to use 3.5 OGL because 4e has nothing equivalent. Something like a 4e game would need to be officially sanctioned because otherwise you can't tell people what the ruleset is? I dunno.

 

[Grunker]

I think it is sad that we saw no 4e computer games when the system was clearly designed to drop in well to that environment.

Yeah, it's a damned shame. 4E was in P&P, but it would really be fun in a computer environment.

 

[Spectacle]

4E would make for a good turn based CRPG system, but it would suck for RTwP.

 

[Grunker]

4E would make for a good turn based CRPG system, but it would suck for RTwP.

This was actually my point, but I forgot to write it down.

Incidentally that's probably part of the answer as to why we never saw a 4E cRPG.

 

[Mother Russia]

There will never be another OGL. WOTC got fucked wayyy to badly for that. Hasbro will never allow it, thought the WOTC folks may sure as heck wanna do it (in cae they are laid off, in which case they could hypthetically use the OGL to quickly put out a setting/game of their own like Monte Cooke did after he was booted when he did his work on 3e)

 

[tuluse]

Good question, considering the 3E OGL has come to bite them in the ass in an epic fashion with the whole Pathfinder thing.

I wonder if that's true. It's pretty easy to use bought 3E stuff with Pathfinder. Maybe it bit them in the ass because 4E had such a poor reception? If 4E was clearly better and everyone wanted it, Pathfinder wouldn't even be an issue.

 

[LeStryfe79]

D&D is fucked

 

[Father Walker]

I bet they'll want to control it more than 3.5. Question is, how much. I think it'll probably go along the lines of 4E, so you'll probably need to add "Requires 5th Edition Core Rulebook, Monster Book, DM Book, etc." or something like that on any supplement you make using the OGL.

 

[Mother Russia]

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20121113

Have yet to download the updated playtester package, but from the article it sounds like utter shit.

Lemme read it and update in a while...

 

[J1M]

I think it is sad that we saw no 4e computer games when the system was clearly designed to drop in well to that environment.

Yeah, it's a damned shame. 4E was in P&P, but it would really be fun in a computer environment.

The closest thing to it is probably the half-implemented code on my computer for the 4e combat system. And I'm including stuff like Daggerdale and Neverwinter.

 

[Telengard]

They would have just have made another WOW clone out of it anyways,

Sometime around 2006, the D&D team made a big presentation to the Hasbro senior management on how they could take D&D up to the $50 million level and potentially keep growing it. The core of that plan was a synergistic relationship between the tabletop game and what came to be known as DDI. At the time Hasbro didn't have the rights to do an MMO for D&D, so DDI was the next best thing. The Wizards team produced figures showing that there were millions of people playing D&D and that if they could move a moderate fraction of those people to DDI, they would achieve their revenue goals. Then DDI could be expanded over time and if/when Hasbro recovered the video gaming rights, it could be used as a platform to launch a true D&D MMO, which could take them over $100 million/year.

The DDI pitch was that the 4th Edition would be designed so that it would work best when played with DDI. DDI had a big VTT component of its design that would be the driver of this move to get folks to hybridize their tabletop game with digital tools. Unfortunately, a tragedy struck the DDI team and it never really recovered. The VTT wasn't ready when 4e launched, and the explicit link between 4e and DDI that had been proposed to Hasbro's execs never materialized. The team did a yoeman's effort to make 4e work anyway while the VTT evolved, but they simply couldn't hit the numbers they'd promised selling books alone. The marketplace backlash to 4e didn't help either.
__________________
Ryan S. Dancey

http://www.enworld.org/forum/news/315800-4-hours-w-rsd-escapist-bonus-column-21.html#post5765766

 

[Mother Russia]

Actually, 4e was never designed to work best when combined with DDI. The wotc ppl aren't fools, they now such a move would have resulted in a massive backlash.

No, what they intended actually was that the Virtual Tabletop, while by no means essential, would simply enhance the game using modern technology.

DDI was supposed to be a big cash cow though, especially the character builder and monster builder. Unfortunately, I suppose it was not that big a hit.

Also, I fail to see how the murder suicide thing by the dude (why are so many rpg nuts actual krazies? I think it is because we all fantasize and think about stuff so much...it fucks up our minds) could have affected development of the VT, as they could just have hired someone else. But who knows, the VT never really materialized even though it was supposed to be launched the day the rulebooks were released...

 

[LeStryfe79]

4ed Sucking ---> Me trolling Enworld ---> Me finding RPGCodex.

Thanks WotC

 

[CappenVarra]

Btw, any rumors on the traditional WotC December layoffs? It would be a shame if they missed a year just because a new edition is in the works