Vapourware Daggerfall Unity isnt Vaporware

[luciusDXL]

That said I realize I was a bit hasty in completely ignoring your questions. If I expect you to be civil to me then I should not dismiss your concerns and questions out of hand. I didn't respond to them before because I really believe that with your hostility you wouldn't even give the project the benefit of the doubt, perhaps I was wrong. Just be aware that I will not respond to anymore of your posts unless they are made in a civil matter - that's all I ask. If you don't agree with me or you are still a skeptic, that's fine.

Here we go:

This isn't about how fast it is, but the starting point of such a project, the methodology. Correct me if I'm wrong; you seem to be building a new game engine for the original content and you're mostly guided by your intuition in making this new engine as similar to the original game as possible. Yes, a basic tech demo where you can walk and look around and perform basic interaction using original assets is nice, though misleading. Have you figured out or maybe even reverse engineered what's behind merely walking stats-wise? What can be observed in current videos is just a little more than making and running around in custom Daggerfall maps in a FPS game.

Yes I've begun figuring out how the stats factor into your movement and climbing skills (among other things, see below). It doesn't match up completely yet but it will.

Have you laid out a roadmap for yourself, have you documented all known game mechanics, prioritized between them?

I have not documented all the game mechanics yet, I'm working in stages or layers. As I work on a set of gameplay mechanics, I also work on the visual representations. Ultimately there will be builds that show off a set of mechanics and visuals (new types of locations, new visual features, etc). I'm not completing all the game play features at once but instead staging it in a way that can be tested by others as I go along. And yes I have a plan that I'm following, I know what the second demo is going to be and at what point I'm actually going to start releasing regular (though still incomplete) builds.

You have implemented weapon swings. What comes next? Jump off to an entirely different feature, or get deep into the how weapon swings differ?

I'm implementing monster AI. I've already factored in the different bonuses the different swings give you. I've also factored in weapon skill, stat bonuses and enemy stats (such as AC and resistances).

Have you written out what stats affects what in what ways? Are you doing it systematically or wherever the wind blows from?

Yes I'm working out the algorithms that link stats to affects in the game world. I handle this by reading research done by others (uesp.net for example) and by testing in the original game.

For instance, there's a huge, simply a huge, list that contains reputation values between individual NPCs, factions and areas. Any idea how any of that works in the game? Have you figured out why when I sometimes ask a merchant for a job, he tells me to get lost?

I can decode reputation information from the game data and track the player's reputation but I haven't figured out/implemented the final algorithms for reputation gain and effect yet. I will do this later when I start working on the quest system.

Maybe you do indeed have all these finer details in your mind, but looking at your website, it looks more like Daggerfall Renderer than a Daggerfall Rebuilder. It's been tried before, and failed miserably. Simply looking at a renderer and being positive about it is naive. Otherwise, I don't have anything against anyone who tries.

Its not naive, its a necessary step in completing the project. I will continue to work by implementing and refining the graphical representation as I work on the game play. I've already started on the trek towards building the full RPG and will continue to do so. If you look at the site you'll notice that initially it was all graphics work, then there was some interaction, now there is the UI, stat system, inventory system, and early (incomplete) combat. This should suggest to you that DaggerXL is already more then just a visualizer and will become more complete in time.

Maybe you'd like to contact Interkarma and make an offer/ask for help? He's been reverse-engineering the game, documenting every bit of the game. He's still doing it, except he no longer has an intention to rewrite the whole engine.

I actually contacted him before I even began the project. While we're not directly working together, I have used information that he has discovered as well as information on uesp.net. I am very grateful (as I've already told him) for all the work he has done. Incidentally I've decoded/reverse engineered information that was currently unavailable for this project as well, so I am capable of such things.

So I hope you realize that I didn't respond to your questions before merely because of the insults and attitude, not because I don't have the information or can't comprehend what I read. If you wish to discuss this further, in a civil fashion, I'd be happy to. Just don't insult me or blindly call the project "pathetic".

 

[Elwro]

I really liked the reputation system of Daggerfall. The DF-Edit (iirc) allowed you to view it in all its glory, maybe that could be of some help if you tried to implement it.

edit: I wrote this post before the previous one appeared.

 

[luciusDXL]

I really liked the reputation system of Daggerfall. The DF-Edit (iirc) allowed you to view it in all its glory, maybe that could be of some help if you tried to implement it.

edit: I wrote this post before the previous one appeared.

I'm aware of that program but thanks for the suggestion.

 

[spacemoose]

daggerfall was a bad game

why not skip ahead to the tragically stunted morrowind and bring THAT world to life

redo the dialogue to be standard 3-6 options with C&C instead of bulletin board

move the NPCs around so they appear less dead

remove the improve-by-use character growth system in favor of pick-what-u-want at level-up

scrap the magic system altogether. implement ritual magic thats very powerful and very difficult/inconveniencing. maybe only manifested in quest solutions. definitely no single-target or small area effect damage spells. no rocket launcher mages. possibly allow "sleep" and "slow" type of spells

 

[luciusDXL]

While I did like Morrowind, I actually liked Daggerfall more believe it or not. However if you are interested in Morrowind, Spacemoose, you can look at the OpenMW project. I'm not part of that project but it seems to be doing fine.

 

[denizsi]

As much negativity as there is in your posts

Don't be discriminative. People can be as much offended by causeless positivity (I know I do) as they can by negativity. Neither matters in the end if you aren't prepared to be forthcoming with actual answers to actual questions.

If there is then I think you'd have been more open minded and asked your questions to begin with rather then slinging insults.

I don't ever remember insulting you or the project. I called it pathetic, which wasn't an insult, as that was the initial impression it left on me due to the scope of the game compared to the observable starting point of the project.

Of course, any project has to start somewhere, but as I pointed out before, there isn't any information given away on your website regarding your understanding of Daggerfall and your metholodgy to rebuild an engine. I've probably seen hundreds of amateur game or mod projects with big ambitions in the last 15 years, many of which, at some point, looked identical to what you have so far achieved, and only a few of these ever made it to being a significant and serious endeavour and again, only a handful among these few ever made it to completion, not to mention just a few of this handful ever ended up being tangible, memorable projects.

In absence of critical information and lack of a sign of proper understanding of the undertaking, any effort can (and should) naturally be taken as a joke.

So what's the point of arguing? If you had asked these questions in a civil manner

Shouldn't it be the nature, the legitimacy of questions themselves that matter? Around here, that's valued over civility, and civility usually derives from it.

then I would respond in kind.

Kindness is overrated. Try outright honesty the next time (not implying that you were dishonest, but rather ommisive).

My mistake was responding to your first "caustic" post - which I will not make again.

No, your mistake was taking the martyr route of "oh well, you've already judged me", instead of manning up and skipping to the actual questions right away.

If you wish to have a civil conversation then talk to me like a human being

That really made me laugh. "Like a human being". No offense, just my imagination running wild.

not like some idiot who irritates you.

When you make false assumptions, people tend to get irritated. I can't help with that. It goes bothways of course, but what matters is that I got you to give some insight about the project which you otherwise wouldn't, and now a proper exchange of ideas and comments can take place. See, this is the "civility derives from actual answers" thing I mentioned above (unless, of course, you have really stupid answers, which sometimes happen).

If the requirement of some basic respect and civility makes me a "NeoCodexer", then so be it.

Respect is earned. Not given away.

Now if you want to start again and talk like adults we can, if not then I have nothing else to discuss with you.

Can't we keep it on like juvenile spoiled kids? Pretty pleeaaaaaaase?

That said I realize I was a bit hasty in completely ignoring your questions. If I expect you to be civil to me then I should not dismiss your concerns and questions out of hand. I didn't respond to them before because I really believe that with your hostility you wouldn't even give the project the benefit of the doubt, perhaps I was wrong. Just be aware that I will not respond to anymore of your posts unless they are made in a civil matter - that's all I ask. If you don't agree with me or you are still a skeptic, that's fine.

You indeed were wrong. Try to develop a mental barrier for what you consider to be uncivil whenever you post here, and filter out the uncivility and get to answer legitimate questions right away instead of getting appalled at unimportant things.

Maybe you'd like to contact Interkarma and make an offer/ask for help? He's been reverse-engineering the game, documenting every bit of the game. He's still doing it, except he no longer has an intention to rewrite the whole engine.

I actually contacted him before I even began the project. While we're not directly working together, I have used information that he has discovered as well as information on uesp.net. I am very grateful (as I've already told him) for all the work he has done. Incidentally I've decoded/reverse engineered information that was currently unavailable for this project as well, so I am capable of such things.

Sounds good enough for me. Do you have any goals on expanding the original fame features, eg. dialogue, travel, trading, sieges, famines etc.? If yes, will you be making at least two different builds, or make the expanded features optional in the final build so those who wish so, can get what the original game had and nothing more?

Also, I'd like to stress out that the option to play the game at original resolution and none of the recent filtering techniques has to be available. For me, 320x240 jaggy pixelated glory is a genuine part of the Daggerfall experience.

So I hope you realize that I didn't respond to your questions before merely because of the insults and attitude, not because I don't have the information or can't comprehend what I read. If you wish to discuss this further, in a civil fashion, I'd be happy to. Just don't insult me or blindly call the project "pathetic".

If I didn't call the project pathetic, as my default attitude to most kinds of game projects out there, you probably wouldn't come here to tell us about all these things you wrote in your reply to me, as there's almost nothing of any of this at your website. At its current state, "pathetic" is the first thing that comes to mind to define your project, unless you add more information confirming your knowledge in and around Daggerfall to your website.

As you've probably noticed, I'm a lot less hostile now that you've come forth with actual replies.

 

[mondblut]

redo the dialogue to be standard 3-6 options with C&C instead of bulletin board

move the NPCs around so they appear less dead

remove the improve-by-use character growth system in favor of pick-what-u-want at level-up

scrap the magic system altogether. implement ritual magic thats very powerful and very difficult/inconveniencing. maybe only manifested in quest solutions. definitely no single-target or small area effect damage spells. no rocket launcher mages. possibly allow "sleep" and "slow" type of spells

Magic? What a travesty! Magic should be removed altogether. And game must be redone in isometric mode, too. And set in post-apoc California. That's the way every single RPG must be done, yeah.

 

[Elwro]

It'd be nice if the monster AI was improved so that if your char has spell reflection the liches and vampires wouldn't blast themselves to death - they should learn their lesson after the first spell.

It's quite funny on the other hand.

 

[Shoelip]

Don't worry too much. Not everyone with something of value to say on here is an asshole. It's just the weirdos who seem to think having no new games worth playing for so long somehow entitles them to treat everyone else like subhuman lifeforms.

Personally I would have been much more interested in a full on remake of DF, but I suppose this could get cool once you start implementing new features and whatnot. I'll keep an eye on it.

That whole "Respect must be earned, not given away." line, is really funny. I've been meaning to ask, where exactly is that from?

 

[luciusDXL]

Sounds good enough for me. Do you have any goals on expanding the original fame features, eg. dialogue, travel, trading, sieges, famines etc.? If yes, will you be making at least two different builds, or make the expanded features optional in the final build so those who wish so, can get what the original game had and nothing more?

I'm planning on implementing various features that Bethesda originally intended to have in the game but were cut due to time or technical constraints. These include individual reputation, wars, sailing your ship, more interactive fast travel, more interactive NPCs and more. These features will be included in the base build but anything like this that extends the original game will be optional. You'll be able to play just the original game with no additional features if you want (other then obvious things like proper support on modern OS's and bug fixes).

Also, I'd like to stress out that the option to play the game at original resolution and none of the recent filtering techniques has to be available. For me, 320x240 jaggy pixelated glory is a genuine part of the Daggerfall experience.

Supporting "point sampling" on the textures (no filtering) and sprites has already been requested and is planned for. I'm not sure about 320x200, looking at games like Future Shock that later worked in 640x480 (after being patched by SkyNet) looked rather nice and were well received. However if people really want 320x200 that can be supported.

If I didn't call the project pathetic, as my default attitude to most kinds of game projects out there, you probably wouldn't come here to tell us about all these things you wrote in your reply to me, as there's almost nothing of any of this at your website. At its current state, "pathetic" is the first thing that comes to mind to define your project, unless you add more information confirming your knowledge in and around Daggerfall to your website.

This isn't true. If you had asked these questions initially (referring to your original set in this case) then I would have simply answered them. I actually didn't come here because you called the project "pathetic", I was watching this topic before then as evidenced by previous posts that I made in the this topic starting on the first page - regarding the legality of the project.

It'd be nice if the monster AI was improved so that if your char has spell reflection the liches and vampires wouldn't blast themselves to death - they should learn their lesson after the first spell.

Optional improved enemy AI is planned.

 

[KKKthulhu.]

This gets more hilarious with every post.

 

[denizsi]

That whole "Respect must be earned, not given away." line, is really funny. I've been meaning to ask, where exactly is that from?

From the kind of stuff that you wouldn't know exists at all in people behind those thick skulls. You thought that everybody else also got that echoing of noise like when you bumped your head against something, didn't you. Well, believe it or not, some people do actually have something in that void. I know, you have no idea what I'm talking about. It's understandable. When someone is a natural born lobotomized, he just can't know it.

Supporting "point sampling" on the textures (no filtering) and sprites has already been requested and is planned for. I'm not sure about 320x200, looking at games like Future Shock that later worked in 640x480 (after being patched by SkyNet) looked rather nice and were well received. However if people really want 320x200 that can be supported.

Future Shock and SkyNET is a different tale. Both games use the same source art/textures, but SkyNET has updated, higher resolution versions. When you update Future Shock with SkyNET, it's using SkyNET assets, that's why it looks that relatively good. So far, wherever I've seen upscaled Daggerfall textures, it almost made me puke.

This isn't true. If you had asked these questions initially (referring to your original set in this case) then I would have simply answered them. I actually didn't come here because you called the project "pathetic", I was watching this topic before then as evidenced by previous posts that I made in the this topic starting on the first page - regarding the legality of the project.

Ok, whatever. Has anyone died?

 

[luciusDXL]

So far, wherever I've seen upscaled Daggerfall textures, it almost made me puke.

Fair enough. Having options like this is a good thing since its not too hard to do. Chocolate Doom supports this feature and it works well enough. The only problem is that sometimes people muck with their video card driver settings which can force bilinear/trilinear/etc.. This could cause the screen to be very blurry when upscaled. However I'm sure that most people who would want to use this resolution would be able to figure out how to reset their settings.

 

[Gragt]

Chocolate Doom

You just said the magic words that will make follow your project closely, even if Daggerfall works very well under DOSBox so far.

 

[Seboss]

I'm mostly interested by the gameplay moddability that DaggerXL could provide over good old Daggerfall. I hope you will be able scripting/modding tools in a near future lucius.

 

[Lord Rocket]

Demo was released a couple days ago. Anyone tried it yet?

 

[xuerebx]

I did. Worked flawlessly, very fluid. Some people reported a CTD when quitting the game, or when accessing an object in-game.

Apart from that it looked good.

 

[Luzur]

http://daggerxl.wordpress.com/

its playable now, to a much greater degree then last.

and landscape.

 

[aleph]

I didn't know that a project like this existed. But now that I know I am waiting with anticipation for a completely playable version.

 

[Xi]

Lookin good. The new engine makes it a much smoother game. I'm sure people will start updating the graphics when he's done. Pretty awesome ;P

 

[Turisas]

I'm sure people will start updating the graphics when he's done.

Sure hope so, because even with the new engine it still looks like shit because of the original art assets.

 

[racofer]

Wrap oblivian4 engine around it = heavan.

 

[Xi]

I'm sure people will start updating the graphics when he's done.

Sure hope so, because even with the new engine it still looks like shit because of the original art assets.

Yes, but it still looks quite a bit better from the original. IMHO. Resizing the textures or replacing them entirely would make quite a bit of difference. I don't think the game had too many art assets either, so redoing them wouldn't be all that bad. The biggest upgrade is that with a new engine, altering everything is possible. There's truly no limit.

The dood making it is very talented. Props to him.

 

[Luzur]

well, 3d wandering/standing NPC's/monsters, trees/stuff/animals and HD textures are planned, if i remember correctly, i have not looked in the forums for awhile.

 

[Radisshu]

Except it doesn't make a bit of difference, guys.