Dark Forces is still the best Star Wars shooter

[Louis_Cypher]

...because the game does not grovelling revolve around Luke, Han, Leia, or unlikely cameo appearances by minor characters, or any of that shit. It's protagonist is not a Jedi, has no special powers beyond their blaster rifle. Today Disney/Hollywood execs, on top of their many other sins, are convinced that you need 'familiar faces' in games. The Star Wars galaxy is massive and the likelihood of running into movie characters is negligible, meaning implausible cameos shrink the breadth of the setting. This constant fixation on what someone like Han was doing between movies is really constricting. Dark Forces instead created a new hero. It created a feeling of isolation and self-reliance, with a brand new character, Kyle Katarn.

You are just one mercenary among thousands of worlds, operating against the Empire without any Jedi powers, on distant isolated outposts, as the majority of action in Star Wars must be. Battles must take place daily, between pirates, rebels, outlaws and imperial special forces. The sequel is also amazing, and is something that would never happen now; an original galactic-level threat like Jerec, being handled without reference to the movies, by someone on an independent hero's journey to Luke. Kyle Katarn is the subject of memes; the Chuck Norris of Star Wars. Ten years after buying out Lucasfilm, there is no word on whether Kyle Katarn even exists in modern canon. It would be so easy to remake Dark Forces in Unreal Engine and release as a £9.99 game on Steam, GOG, PSN, etc, re-canonizing the plot by altering a couple of lines of text.

 

[Grunker]

While I like Dark Forces OK, it's still ultimately a lesser DOOM, whereas Jedi Knight is its own thing, and is excellent to boot.

 

[Darth Roxor]

While I like Dark Forces OK, it's still ultimately a lesser DOOM, whereas Jedi Knight is its own thing, and is excellent to boot.

some hell of a lesser doom that has jumping, crouching, alt-fire, inventory, mission objectives...

 

[Louis_Cypher]

While I like Dark Forces OK, it's still ultimately a lesser DOOM, whereas Jedi Knight is its own thing, and is excellent to boot.

It's true that Dark Forces is an early Doom era shooter, but it is a very polished one that added innovations that later became standard in FPS. However, I'm not really comparing it to other games in the genre. Just Star Wars games; of which there are maybe 50+ in total, and among which maybe 10 are shooters. I would say Dark Forces I and II are still the best shooters in Star Wars. It's worrying that due to the majority of consumers being kids who grew up with consoles, there is a kind of event horizon around the year 2000 before which nothing existed, so a lot of modern lists and recommendations just don't include anything from PC, and begin with really over-rated PS2 games.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

It's worrying that due to the majority of consumers being kids who grew up with consoles, there is a kind of event horizon around the year 2000 before which nothing existed, so a lot of modern lists and recommendations just don't include anything from PC, and begin with really over-rated PS2 games.

Uh… yeah. Welcome to the Codex.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

When I think about SW, I think about the original movies trilogy and the first Dark Force game (the one where Kyle is a cool mercenary, without any jedi powers mumbo-jumbo). Prequels? Sequels? What are people talking about?

 

[Atlantico]

Dark Forces is

Well, the first level is. Then there are the sewer levels and it really declines really fast. I gave up midway through the game, as I was being bored to tears...

I'm happy replaying the first level every once in a while.

 

[SoupNazi]

The fan remake in Jedi Outcast (Quake 3) engine is also fun to play through.

 

[JamesDixon]

I would say that DF 2 is a bit better since it uses standardized controls that we're used to. DF's control scheme is jank.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Dark Forces is

Well, the first level is. Then there are the sewer levels and it really declines really fast. I gave up midway through the game, as I was being bored to tears...

I'm happy replaying the first level every once in a while.

This. I replayed DF a year or two ago when we were talking about it here, and some Codexers were saying the game declined steeply. I didn’t remember that, but it’s absolutely true. There are still some good levels sprinkled throughout, but the overall quality decreases the further you go, and none top the first mission.

 

[JamesDixon]

You could argue that DF is a better shooter than Jedi Knight because JK gameplay incorporates a lot of jedi tricks but JK is the better game. More interesting maps, better plot, more complicated adversaries. Won't forget the first time I encountered storm troopers in JK (after 5 levels of slaughtering mercs) and realized that storm troopers could actually fight.

That's because those stormtroopers failed stormtrooper school's basic firearms qualifications.

 

[randir14]

When I was a kid I spent all of one summer vacation playing it. I remember thinking it was scary for some reason.

 

[JarlFrank]

I would say that DF 2 is a bit better since it uses standardized controls that we're used to. DF's control scheme is jank.

Also DF2 has some awesome vertical level design.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

When I was a kid I spent all of one summer vacation playing it. I remember thinking it was scary for some reason.

I found the dianogas freaky when I was 12.

 

[DeepOcean]

Liked the better enviroments and the technical advancements over Doom but in terms of pure shooting, Doom is still more satisfying than DF 1. I never felt like replaying DF 1 for the gameplay as I did multiple times for Doom.

If people are going to play the series, I recomend playing DF1, then DF2, DF 1 feels like an alpha version of DF 2, both are great shooters but I made the mistake of playing DF 2 first and when I played DF 1 later, I felt the downgrade and the clunkiness because DF 2 pretty much fixes everything that is wrong on DF 1 and makes what was good even better just pretend you arent a jedi and you will have a good time, saber combat would only get good with Jedi Outcast.

 

[HumanTotemPole]

I would say that DF 2 is a bit better since it uses standardized controls that we're used to. DF's control scheme is jank.

Also DF2 has some awesome vertical level design.

Hard agree. 1st thing that comes to mind when I think of DF2.

I miss the more abstract level & visual design of early 3d FPSes a lot. I think that the push for verisimilitude characteristic of the late 00s to late 10s was a disaster for the genre (true milsims and tac shooters mostly excluded). It's a bit like CGI being a disaster for action movies - the scale of what you can create is potentially much greater but the results are largely uninspired, tepid and unmemorable.

 

[DeepOcean]

Ironically those abstract levels had more interaction and looked more like real places you could actually walk around than modern "realistic" levels that look more like cinema sets than real places.

 

[DeepOcean]

I just started to play this yesterday. Got 3 missions completed, but felt really sick after playing it. I think it's because of gun walking animation.
Switched to DF2 today and completed 1st level. I needed a while to get used to the mouse up/down movement. Main menu doesn't fit the screen properly, but game itself runs good.

What are your cons for the Republic Commando being worse than DF?

Republic Commando is a very different beast from DF.

 

[Beans00]

I just started to play this yesterday. Got 3 missions completed, but felt really sick after playing it. I think it's because of gun walking animation.
Switched to DF2 today and completed 1st level. I needed a while to get used to the mouse up/down movement. Main menu doesn't fit the screen properly, but game itself runs good.

What are your cons for the Republic Commando being worse than DF?

I don't remember DF 1/2 very well so I can't say if they have open level design like DOOM.


RC is a linear squad based shooter though. Not the same mold as a 90's shooter.

 

[Falksi]

I've never actually played the original, and bizarrely nabbed Doom today in the Steam bargain bin.

Will get this purchased shortly.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

I can't entirely agree that Dark Forces was the best title, even in the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight franchise, but there was clearly something special about it. The guns were best in the original, since each game afterwards had some issue, a highly OP weapon or a completely useless one. I think the game's biggest flaw is a lack of content. Normally, that's a good thing, leave them wanting more, but there are what, 9 levels? While they're all good, its one of the shortest campaigns in a FPS back then, and they're not the biggest levels on the planet. Lucasarts had that problem with Outlaws too, another great title that just needed more levels. I remember beating the only obstacle to beating the game on hard was the "kill dragons" (as a similar monster is called in DK2, no idea the canon name) fist fight. That was a bit too much like an endurance test.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I would say that DF 2 is a bit better since it uses standardized controls that we're used to. DF's control scheme is jank.

Also DF2 has some awesome vertical level design.

Hard agree. 1st thing that comes to mind when I think of DF2.

I miss the more abstract level & visual design of early 3d FPSes a lot. I think that the push for verisimilitude characteristic of the late 00s to late 10s was a disaster for the genre (true milsims and tac shooters mostly excluded). It's a bit like CGI being a disaster for action movies - the scale of what you can create is potentially much greater but the results are largely uninspired, tepid and unmemorable.

I'm afraid of heights and some of the levels in DF2 used to really mess with me.

I think part of what made Jedi Knight (DF2) great were the cheesy live action scenes. They were just so dorky and tied everything together. "The Dark Side? I've been there! Do your worst."

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Dark Forces was nice at the time but every game in the series after it is better. Dark Forces 2 (which is from 1997) was so exciting back when it first came out, it felt like such a huge jump from the first game and I don't quite remember games having levels like it did before it. Same with Jedi Outcast, and how they added that system where taking out the commander of a enemy group makes them less organized. I'd put Republic Commando and the Pandemic Studios Battlefront games over it too.

It would have been nice to get a none Force Powers Star Wars FPS like Mace Griffin Bounty Hunter. That games transitions from space to ground combat is something they haven't done in a Star Wars game even still, at least the way it goes about doing it where you can walk around in your spaceship; given how big a deal the Millennium Falcon and Han Solo are to Star Wars you'd kind of things this would've happened by now, especially since someone already did it in 2003.

 

[thesheeep]

...because the game does not grovelling revolve around Luke, Han, Leia, or unlikely cameo appearances by minor characters, or any of that shit. It's protagonist is not a Jedi, has no special powers beyond their blaster rifle. Today Disney/Hollywood execs, on top of their many other sins, are convinced that you need 'familiar faces' in games. The Star Wars galaxy is massive and the likelihood of running into movie characters is negligible, meaning implausible cameos shrink the breadth of the setting. This constant fixation on what someone like Han was doing between movies is really constricting. Dark Forces instead created a new hero. It created a feeling of isolation and self-reliance, with a brand new character, Kyle Katarn.

I played through the entire series again just recently (Dark Forces I + II, Jedi Outcast & Academy).

One thing that many people tend to forget is how atrociously bad the actual FPS gameplay is in Outcast & Academy.
It's impossible to hit freaking anything, the crosshair has no bearing on where a shot would land. Instead the shot will go from the actual "exit" of your gun towards some point in the distance where the crosshair would be.
I consider myself good at FPS games, but I can't hit shit in the Jedi Knight games.
Absolutely awkward and the forums are full of people who began doubting their own sanity and thought they had lost all skill before realizing that others also can't hit shit in those games.
Of course, once you get the lightsaber, you almost never go back to shooting (except some sniping). And that lightsaber combat is still the best there is - which is a fucking shame because it's not actually THAT good.

But Dark Forces I and II are just amazing.
They also show that auto aim is not necessarily a bad thing, which is an interesting realization in this day and age - at least it was for me.
I didn't miss the precision, except for some fringe cases where auto aim clearly wasn't up to the task.
And the games are pretty hard even with auto aim.

As much as I like shitting on Disney, though, I do understand why Kyle Katarn is not canon.
The dude is completely OP.

I will end this saying:
Pew! Pew!

 

[Darth Roxor]

It's impossible to hit freaking anything

the only gun for which this is remotely true is the blaster rifle, and in jedi academy you can get 100% precision with it by activating force sight