From Software Dark Souls 3

[Arnust]

The memories of the journey through Dark Souls 3? Yup, definitely fits the bill for horror of cosmic proportions.

Better still, the "secret" ending from BB? Totally the infant Old One from Demon's Souls. GG Ashen One, Boletaria went to shit all because you wanted a fucking painting, you twat.

Oh. Yeah, they are just teasing the BB playthrough. I wasn't talking about that, rather everything prior.

 

[Malpercio]

At Gael now. As others said, Ringed City really brings back some good DS1 memories with its nicely spread bonfires

I don't see it, the game has the same issue as other DS3's bonfires, there are a lot and they act as checkpoints in every new sub-zone.

 

[Arnust]

At Gael now. As others said, Ringed City really brings back some good DS1 memories with its nicely spread bonfires

I don't see it, the game has the same issue as other DS3's bonfires, there are a lot and they act as checkpoints in every new sub-zone.

Probably means the Yharman Ringed City Streets - Inner Wall stretch. For some reason people put it as the longest stretch on the game and a total comeback yet you run through it in four minutes at worst. Having a horde of fatsos in the way with the hollows ambushing you makes it overlong. It also does have a couple of small ramifications, I guess.

 

[Seaking4]

I didn't find that Dark Souls 1 bonfires were that spread out. For the most part it seems to be about the same in each game but DS3 does have some really weird bonfire placement at times. You'll unlock a shortcut back to another bonfire and immediately after that you'll find another bonfire. Or that stretch after Wolfnir where you have 3 bonfires for 1 non-respawning enemy.

That stretch between the 2nd and 3rd bonfires in Ringed City has a ton of enemies but it takes much less than four minutes to run it. Probably like 1 tops.

 

[Janise]

i downloaded ds1 yesterday

 

[Crimson_Striker]

It seems like every Dark Souls thread is the same now; all discussing which Souls game is the best or the worst and not actually talking about the game the thread was originally about.

3 may not be my favorite for its linear design but I do like how short the required path is. I forgot what NG+ cycle I'm on because I'll just rush to the end when I finish the DLC and beat all my favorite bosses, or if I use up all the available slabs. I'm happy to see that the online on PS4 is still decently active for co-op. It's fun to co-op the Demon Twins in the Dreg Heap on my main characters named "Slayer of Demons" while using Guts' big sword and the Abyss watchers armor.

 

[Arnust]

It seems like every Dark Souls thread is the same now; all discussing which Souls game is the best or the worst and not actually talking about the game the thread was originally about.

3 may not be my favorite for its linear design but I do like how short the required path is. I forgot what NG+ cycle I'm on because I'll just rush to the end when I finish the DLC and beat all my favorite bosses, or if I use up all the available slabs. I'm happy to see that the online on PS4 is still decently active for co-op. It's fun to co-op the Demon Twins in the Dreg Heap on my main characters named "Slayer of Demons" while using Guts' big sword and the Abyss watchers armor.

http://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Bonfire+Ascetic

 

[Seaking4]

The demon fight at the end of the Dreg Heap is a fun one to co-op. It's easy to get summoned and it's one of the few fights that isn't instantly trivialized by having two people fight it at the same time. I wasn't too impressed by the fight the first time I did it but as I co-op'ed it, it started to grow on me.

Is the crit path that short in DS3 though? Untended Graves, Archdragon Peak, and the Consumed King's Garden are the only locations that I recall being optional. Two of which are very small areas.

 

[Arnust]

The demon fight at the end of the Dreg Heap is a fun one to co-op. It's easy to get summoned and it's one of the few fights that isn't instantly trivialized by having two people fight it at the same time. I wasn't too impressed by the fight the first time I did it but as I co-op'ed it, it started to grow on me.

Is the crit path that short in DS3 though? Untended Graves, Archdragon Peak, and the Consumed King's Garden are the only locations that I recall being optional. Two of which are very small areas.

My second playthrough took 12 hours, and that's doing everything along some PvP. Not having played Bloodborne, this is the Souls that has the least play value contested with Demon's. It's real stubby.

Yeah, pretty much for me too, the dual Demons are the new addition to my "an actually good boss in DS3" rank along Gundyr, Princes and Watchers. Good arena, exhilarating gameplay, good mechanics behind it, and not entirely broken by >1 player. And decent lore, too. Yay!

 

[Arnust]

Yes, indeed. It is called Dark Souls, where the transitory lands of game journalism converge.
In venturing east, gamers discovered the truth of the old words: "Everything is Dark Souls"
When the series is threatened, the bell tolls, unearthing the fans' opinions from their graves...
Bloodborne, PS4 exclusive...
Dark Souls 2, the ginger stepchild...
And the one that's the one hipsters like, Demon's Souls...
Only, in truth... the fans will rag on... And the Soulslikes will rise. Nameless, weebs, fanboys, unfit even to be casuals.
And so it is, that Souls ends.​

Soon.

 

[Janise]

i dont get it
ds1 looks to me like a meme game...
i am fighting the camera more than the enemies
cant you just always run back to a fire to heal?
cant you just outregen stamina vs anything really?
enemies do a lot of damage alright

what made ds1 so popular?

 

[Seaking4]

i am fighting the camera more than the enemies
cant you just always run back to a fire to heal?
cant you just outregen stamina vs anything really?
enemies do a lot of damage alright

Sometimes.
Sure but the enemies come back.
Not always.
Sort of.

 

[sullynathan]

what made ds1 so popular?

Go to the dark souls thread

 

[Malpercio]

I didn't find that Dark Souls 1 bonfires were that spread out. For the most part it seems to be about the same in each game but DS3 does have some really weird bonfire placement at times. You'll unlock a shortcut back to another bonfire and immediately after that you'll find another bonfire. Or that stretch after Wolfnir where you have 3 bonfires for 1 non-respawning enemy.

That stretch between the 2nd and 3rd bonfires in Ringed City has a ton of enemies but it takes much less than four minutes to run it. Probably like 1 tops.

DS1 doesn't even have bonfire in some areas. New Londo has zero! You need to go through the ghosts every fucking time you want to challenge the four kings.

Blightown has two! One in the middle and one at the bottom, and not even before the boss. If Blightown was a DS2-3 area you would get one in the beginning, two in the middle, one in the swamp and one before Spirdertitts.

 

[Arnust]

I didn't find that Dark Souls 1 bonfires were that spread out. For the most part it seems to be about the same in each game but DS3 does have some really weird bonfire placement at times. You'll unlock a shortcut back to another bonfire and immediately after that you'll find another bonfire. Or that stretch after Wolfnir where you have 3 bonfires for 1 non-respawning enemy.

That stretch between the 2nd and 3rd bonfires in Ringed City has a ton of enemies but it takes much less than four minutes to run it. Probably like 1 tops.

DS1 doesn't even have bonfire in some areas. New Londo has zero! You need to go through the ghosts every fucking time you want to challenge the four kings.

Blightown has two! One in the middle and one at the bottom, and not even before the boss. If Blightown was a DS2-3 area you would get one in the beginning, two in the middle, one in the swamp and one before Spirdertitts.

Yeah, but at least the DS2 one would have the mid point bonfire hidden, be a more intense walking/encounter stretch, and the boss won't "drop" any bonfires. You cannot see not one bonfire from the another, even if clutters obscuring the view were to be removed.

Plus, you mentioned the most extreme there. Anor Londo had four and five if counting the one at Duke's bottom, and just to save you from walking. DS1 makes a lot of work on where you rested due to the more open nature, as it should. Later they are reduced in the main spotlight to become more like checkpoints. You also can't do all the miscellaneous activities you could do (albeit tbh they're very occasionally used). 2's kept relevant due to Durability and the ability to block online. And of course, while all the games have a very similar way of recovering cast uses, 2's are the ones that need resting the most as Herbs are nowhere near in abundance to Spices or infinite like Ashen Estus, and work by Uses instead of *urgh* Mana.

Anyway, derailed there for a bit. It's not so much about having less or more bonfires, as for making them important. In 1 they are precious positioning, in 2 they become a must stop unless you're packing a ton of mildly pricy consumables. I do have issues on how 3's add to gameplay in other than the basic level. Some area bonfires are pretty good, like the placements in the Cathedral of The Deep or some other stretch like Consumed King's Garden, but the majority is redundant for not that much of a reason. If it was trying so hard to be DS1 again, it might as well have remembered its design pillars.

 

[Silva]

What are the strategic decisions of DS3?

Coming from a playthrough of DS1, it's crazy how this game always has 2 or 3 routes open most of time with different rewards. For example, at start you can follow the obvious path through Undead Burg and Parish to the Bell, or you can go to the Depths for Large Ember, or New Londo for the Fire keeper soul + Very Large Ember, or Catacombs to get a fire infused weapon with Vamos + the Rite of Kindling + mask from Pinwheel. And it opens up even more later.

How about DS3? What alternate routes are there with interesting rewards? What is DS3 "rite of kindling" ?

 

[Arnust]

What are the strategic decisions of DS3?

Coming from a playthrough of DS1, it's crazy how this game always has 2 or 3 routes open most of time with different rewards. For example, at start you can follow the obvious path through Undead Burg and Parish to the Bell, or you can go to the Depths for Large Ember, or New Londo for the Fire keeper soul + Very Large Ember, or Catacombs to get a fire infused weapon with Vamos + the Rite of Kindling + mask from Pinwheel. And it opens up even more later.

How about DS3? What alternate routes are there with interesting rewards? What is DS3 "rite of kindling" ?

*Sighs, puts hand in shoulder and carries to a corner* Son, there is none like that. There are two forkroads total and then there's an early skip that is just getting earlier to a place by doing something pretty hard for a low level character, as it happens in the first proper area. It does lead to some good loot, but not for every class. Those two forkroads either have equally important objectives, or one's the door to proceed and the key is in the other.

 

[Jasede]

Right; linear as fuck. There's no exploration in DS3, just one linear stage after the next, the mentioned forks aside, which are tiny.

 

[Jaedar]

Right; linear as fuck. There's no exploration in DS3, just one linear stage after the next, the mentioned forks aside, which are tiny.

It's the same in Bloodborne, so this may very well be how fromsoft makes all their games from now on.

 

[CptMace]

As the first game I've played was Demon's Souls, I already found Dark Souls I to be pretty disappointing in terms of linearity.
Yeah you can ring a bell before the other, but you'll have to ring the bells. You have to reach Anor Londo, fill the vessel...
I liked how Demon's Souls allowed you to go for a clean 100% run, which was not only satisfying because of the sense of completion but although because all 4 archdemon fights had very different atmosphere and gimmicks. But you could completely ignore 3 out of the 5 worlds and still get to the end.

Overall, from Demon's Souls to Dark Souls 3, I think two trends appear : more linearity, better scenery and level-design. I'd probably pick DkS2 as an exception (less linear than the first, worst level-design).

 

[Jaedar]

Overall, from Demon's Souls to Dark Souls 3, I think two trends appear : more linearity, better scenery and level-design. I'd probably pick DkS2 as an exception (less linear than the first, worst level-design).

If you think ds2 is less linear than ds1, you are beyond my help.

 

[CptMace]

It is less linear though.
There's little to argue here : To reach the locked areas of DkS 1 you need to get to Anor Londo, the only way is Sen's Fortress, the only way to the Fortress is ringing two bells.
To reach the locked areas of DkS2 you need the king's ring, you can either grab 4 lords souls, including 4 times the same one sigh, or X brazillion souls. Then it's very much open, and although there's a linear sequence of things to do in order to reach the throne, you can reach the throne after bypassing most of the first half of the game. You can completely avoid the Bastille, the Mines, the Lava castle (forgot those silly names), these are big chunks of the game.
I felt like DkS2 was closer to Demon's Souls on some of these aspects (too bad it ended to be a fuckfest in terms of level design, boss design and so on). Including less mandatory levels.
I mean, there's linearity and linearity. Arguably, Demon's Souls is the most linear of the series, since the five worlds you get to visit are all designed as corridors, and the bosses are commonly referenced as 3-1, 3-2, 3-3 as there always is an unamovible sequence for each world. But it's although the less linear since you only need one Archdemon's soul to get to the end, hence there's no need to step a foot in the poisonous place or the tower of Latria if you don't like these. DkS2 is in that vein regarding this aspect. Well that's what I meant.

 

[Black Angel]

The moment you get dropped onto Firelink Shrine in Dark Souls 1, you can fight 7(!) different Bosses from the get-go, all available on 5 different levels.

Though, to be fair, Dark Souls 1 had Master Key gift that you can choose for any class or it comes immediately with Thief class. However, that's one of the most amazing things about Dark Souls 1, which really disappoint me about the later games not having similar item or similar way to open the first half of the game like that.

I haven't played Demon's Souls, but based on that fact alone Dark Souls 1 is WAY more open and less linear than any of the later titles could ever offer.

 

[CptMace]

I mean, there's linearity and linearity. Arguably, Demon's Souls is the most linear of the series, since the five worlds you get to visit are all designed as corridors, and the bosses are commonly referenced as 3-1, 3-2, 3-3 as there always is an unamovible sequence for each world.

It's basically a debate between : Would you rather be able to choose which parts of the game you'd like to clear in order to reach the end, or be able to choose in which order you'll clean all the content in order to reach the end.

 

[Jaedar]

Well that's what I meant.

Fair enough, if you consider nonlinearity as "how many parts of the game are technically optional" then ds2 is the winner.

I think that's mostly unrelated to nonlinearity though.