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Game News Dark Souls II Gets Release Date, Collector's Edition, and New Info

Blackguard

Learned
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
165
I genuinely liked DS; got day 1 collectors edition and shit. But it is essentially like a dumbed down Demon's Souls.

and prey tell, what is exactly "dumbed down" in DkS compared to DeS? except for the health loss when hollowed/soul form (that literally means nothing once you, as young people say it nowadays, "git gud") and bonfires, everything else is pretty much harder/better (enemies, bosses, better upgrade system)

Exactly this. I played DeS after having beaten DS and it was way, way easier. I never ran out of healing grasses, DS may have bonfires but DeS maps are so freaking small it makes absolutely no difference, I one shot 2/3rd of the DeS bosses and I sucked at DS, etc.
 

St. Toxic

Arcane
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,098
Location
Yemen / India
Humanity only from killing bosses, poison disables dodging, total weight limit, stand-alone level system allows for more detailed environments, no bonfires every 10 m of progress, more varied enemy types, better upgrade system, no npc white phantoms etc.

Exactly this. I played DeS after having beaten DS and it was way, way easier.

I hear this all the time. Maybe they patched the awesome out of DeS once DaS got popular?
 

crawlkill

Kill all boxed game owners. Kill! Kill!
Joined
May 9, 2012
Messages
674
"The game will use dedicated multiplayer servers."

that has absolutely nothing to do with the in-game mechanism for connecting, bro. in DS1 you literally get dumped from the pool of summonables if you leave the area you're in, and any given co-op session is area-bounded and therefor only a few minutes long. you can't just submit your candidacy for an area then run off and play your own game until you're summoned. you need to sit and wait. that's not a function of the P2P architecture (or, well, not just).

I loved DS multiplayer when it worked, and would have liked DS generally if I'd been able to do it more often. but the "stand around doing nothing hoping someone summons you" factor was too much. I didn't have many connectivity problems. my problems were with the 'sit and stare' in-game lobby system.
 

Blackguard

Learned
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Messages
165
Humanity only from killing bosses, poison disables dodging, total weight limit, stand-alone level system allows for more detailed environments, no bonfires every 10 m of progress, more varied enemy types, better upgrade system, no npc white phantoms etc.

Exactly this. I played DeS after having beaten DS and it was way, way easier.

I hear this all the time. Maybe they patched the awesome out of DeS once DaS got popular?

Or the more likely explanation; playing similar game for the second time is easier because you already have an good idea how shit works. DS seems easier if already played DeS, and vice versa.
 

praetor

Arcane
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
3,069
Location
Vhoorl
Humanity only from killing bosses

bullshit. stones of ephemeral eyes

poison disables dodging,

yeah, that makes it so much harder... because it's so frequent

total weight limit,

bullshit. it only made it more tedious, less varied and less prone to
experimentation

stand-alone level system allows for more detailed environments,

bullshit

no bonfires every 10 m of progress,

bullshit... i sense a pattern here

more varied enemy types,

probably the biggest piece of bullshit in this post

better upgrade system,

bullshit. i could maybe concede you that upgrading with perma-poison or the extra bleeding was cooler (maybe), but everything else was significantly improved

no npc white phantoms etc.

since it was easier anyway, having friendly phantoms in DeS would've made it easier than popamole shooters :troll:
 

Durante

Learned
Patron
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
140
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Yes, stats like these are totally intuitive:


Hey guys, intelligence increases magic damage, except for fire magic BECAUSE OF REASONS. But wait, intelligence can increase fire damage if you punch someone with fire! Look how hardcore we are!
The "punch someone in the face" part just falls out automatically from the way weapon damage scaling with attributes works, and is indicated in the interface (the flames have INT scaling). Pyromancy not being stat-dependent was an interesting experiment (offering 2 entirely different ways to use magic), but it caused huge issues with PvP balance and they're ditching it in DS2.
 

St. Toxic

Arcane
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,098
Location
Yemen / India
bullshit. bullshit. bullshit bullshit bullshit.

You really are full of it, holmes.

DS seems easier if already played DeS, and vice versa.

It's just more streamlined period. The difficulty is about the same, give or take. Some areas are a walk in the park, others are unforgiving; the same is true for both games. (Though, to be fair, I can't remember beating any bosses by simply running away in Demon's)
 

Declinator

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
542
bullshit. bullshit. bullshit bullshit bullshit.

You really are full of it, holmes.

DS seems easier if already played DeS, and vice versa.

It's just more streamlined period. The difficulty is about the same, give or take. Some areas are a walk in the park, others are unforgiving; the same is true for both games. (Though, to be fair, I can't remember beating any bosses by simply running away in Demon's)

To me the two were almost identical. Dark Souls is the Doom 2 to Demon's Souls Doom 1.

I think the Estus flask system was an improvement as I didn't always hold hundreds of healing items as I did in Demon's Souls. I guess in some ways it made it easier to handle your resources as the bonfire always replenishes the flasks but the grass management was more like "should I throw these away because I already have about a thousand other grasses in my backpack" than anything to do with carefully considering whether to use them. With the flasks on the other hand you did often have to think about whether to use them though that may have something to do with the fact that I almost always played with just 5 flasks with me.

As far as areas go I think the overall difficulty was a bit higher in Demon's Souls but some areas like the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls was more difficult than any single area in Demon's. I also had a far easier time with the bosses in DeS but I played it to completion after DaS so that may be the reason. I do think that O & S is more difficult than any boss from Demon's though.

Enemy variety is a bit tricky. I think the enemies in DeS were more interesting even if there were less of them. The skeletons that roll and the mind flayers felt refreshing after DaS. Also because backstabbing isn't quite as easy in DeS fighting enemies didn't start feeling repetitive so quickly. Of course I could have restricted my backstabbing in DaS but still.

I think saying that DaS is streamlined from DeS is somewhat true but sounds like a bit of an exaggeration as there just aren't that many changes.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,817
"The game will use dedicated multiplayer servers."

that has absolutely nothing to do with the in-game mechanism for connecting, bro. in DS1 you literally get dumped from the pool of summonables if you leave the area you're in, and any given co-op session is area-bounded and therefor only a few minutes long. you can't just submit your candidacy for an area then run off and play your own game until you're summoned. you need to sit and wait. that's not a function of the P2P architecture (or, well, not just).

I loved DS multiplayer when it worked, and would have liked DS generally if I'd been able to do it more often. but the "stand around doing nothing hoping someone summons you" factor was too much. I didn't have many connectivity problems. my problems were with the 'sit and stare' in-game lobby system.

You are correct but you seem to miss the big picture. Dedicate multiplayer servers will even out the odds for PvP: less lag or both players will suffer from the same amount of lag. It greatly depends on what synchronization technique will be implemented on the servers but in any case the multiplayer experience will be better than the current DaS implementation. Please notice that I'm talking only about the technical aspect: dedicate servers are almost always better than peer-to-peer multiplayer (the host has less lag therefore he is in advantage).

In other words, I don't know if the summoning will work better. I have no idea.
 

St. Toxic

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
9,098
Location
Yemen / India
To me the two were almost identical. Dark Souls is the Doom 2 to Demon's Souls Doom 1.

I think the Estus flask system was an improvement as I didn't always hold hundreds of healing items as I did in Demon's Souls. I guess in some ways it made it easier to handle your resources as the bonfire always replenishes the flasks but the grass management was more like "should I throw these away because I already have about a thousand other grasses in my backpack" than anything to do with carefully considering whether to use them. With the flasks on the other hand you did often have to think about whether to use them though that may have something to do with the fact that I almost always played with just 5 flasks with me.

I can't really comment on flasks vs grass, because I never found myself in a situation where the debate became relevant. I'm always either getting killed in 1 hit on low hp builds, or float so much hp that healing with anything other than hums or blessing becomes impractical.

Hums, in my opinion, are essentially estus killers. Every mob drops hums, the streets are littered with hums, all the bosses drop hums, even stores started carrying hums after the patch, the more hums you use the higher your chance of finding hums, they boost all of your def stats, boost dmg on certain weps and act as covenant currency AFTER being used. Admittedly, the animation for using hums is slower, but the healing effect goes through at the start of the animation, so you still end up healing through backstabs, aoe dmg and whatever else.

As far as areas go I think the overall difficulty was a bit higher in Demon's Souls but some areas like the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls was more difficult than any single area in Demon's. I also had a far easier time with the bosses in DeS but I played it to completion after DaS so that may be the reason. I do think that O & S is more difficult than any boss from Demon's though.

O&S is a trick boss, did you try soloing them? They're laughably easy when you don't have to worry about them switching targets. DeS had a lot more cramped areas, more ledges to fall to your doom, spear-chucking stingrays that aggroed from 200 m away and necromancers that spawned infinite ghosts. DaS almost seemed geared towards low level runs, as you could ignore direct combat in almost every situation. DeS, in comparison, had a lot of "corridors" with enemies stuck right in the middle of them.

Enemy variety is a bit tricky. I think the enemies in DeS were more interesting even if there were less of them. The skeletons that roll and the mind flayers felt refreshing after DaS. Also because backstabbing isn't quite as easy in DeS fighting enemies didn't start feeling repetitive so quickly. Of course I could have restricted my backstabbing in DaS but still.

I don't think self-imposed restrictions make much sense really, especially in a game that's supposed to be hard. Enemy classes are very much the same throughout both games, similar combat animations and all. DaS felt more geared towards enemies that engage strictly in h2h though; how many different types of knights did we get, like 8? They're also generally very easy to pull, and their max distance from spawn feels limited when considering the new open world design; once you find the spot where the enemy resets, you can take out any mob without it fighting back. I know it's essentially an exploit, but with the smaller, more enclosed levels of DeS this kind of pathing restriction rarely came into play (I think we had about the same pull distance in both games) which made enemies feel more threatening, as you rarely had a safe spot to stand on outside of the hub.

I think saying that DaS is streamlined from DeS is somewhat true but sounds like a bit of an exaggeration as there just aren't that many changes.

It's sort of like Fallout 1 vs Fallout 2. Both are great games in their own right, but you can tell the sequel was influenced by player feedback like "Nobody needs 'this' game feature" and "Wouldn't it be cool if?" suggestions. I also like the art style less, but that's a very personal preference -- DeS felt more like a Japanimation take on some Lynchian medieval anecdote, smiley-face squires chucking fireballs and all that. DaS had a more Diablo-esque vibe to it with all of the various demons and skeletons.

Dedicate multiplayer servers will even out the odds for PvP: less lag or both players will suffer from the same amount of lag.

The player closest to the geographical location of the dedicated server will still have a better response time, so it's still down to the match-making. Could also mean a lot of mp downtime overall.
 

Declinator

Arbiter
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
542
To me the two were almost identical. Dark Souls is the Doom 2 to Demon's Souls Doom 1.

I think the Estus flask system was an improvement as I didn't always hold hundreds of healing items as I did in Demon's Souls. I guess in some ways it made it easier to handle your resources as the bonfire always replenishes the flasks but the grass management was more like "should I throw these away because I already have about a thousand other grasses in my backpack" than anything to do with carefully considering whether to use them. With the flasks on the other hand you did often have to think about whether to use them though that may have something to do with the fact that I almost always played with just 5 flasks with me.

I can't really comment on flasks vs grass, because I never found myself in a situation where the debate became relevant. I'm always either getting killed in 1 hit on low hp builds, or float so much hp that healing with anything other than hums or blessing becomes impractical.

Hums, in my opinion, are essentially estus killers. Every mob drops hums, the streets are littered with hums, all the bosses drop hums, even stores started carrying hums after the patch, the more hums you use the higher your chance of finding hums, they boost all of your def stats, boost dmg on certain weps and act as covenant currency AFTER being used. Admittedly, the animation for using hums is slower, but the healing effect goes through at the start of the animation, so you still end up healing through backstabs, aoe dmg and whatever else.

I was practically always in hollow form so for me humanity was a bit more rare and of course I didn't have those other bonuses either. Didn't even know about the bonuses actually so I never saw any real point to being in human form apart from kindling a bonfire.

As far as areas go I think the overall difficulty was a bit higher in Demon's Souls but some areas like the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls was more difficult than any single area in Demon's. I also had a far easier time with the bosses in DeS but I played it to completion after DaS so that may be the reason. I do think that O & S is more difficult than any boss from Demon's though.

O&S is a trick boss, did you try soloing them? They're laughably easy when you don't have to worry about them switching targets. DeS had a lot more cramped areas, more ledges to fall to your doom, spear-chucking stingrays that aggroed from 200 m away and necromancers that spawned infinite ghosts. DaS almost seemed geared towards low level runs, as you could ignore direct combat in almost every situation. DeS, in comparison, had a lot of "corridors" with enemies stuck right in the middle of them.

Yes, I soloed them. Trick boss? Laughably easy? There were some things that eventually made it at least less hard when you figured it out but laughably easy is certainly not true for me.
I'm talking melee of course. The fight seemed like it might be easy with magic or bows if that is what you are talking about?

Stingrays in DeS were only really a problem in one level (4-1 IIRC) and even then only because you had that narrow ledge you had to walk on for a long while. Had to think about what you meant by necromancers but I guess you mean those Reapers. I was actually a bit let down by them as I didn't die a single time to them and I heard they were tough. And wasn't there only a handful of them?

It's possible that you could ignore combat in DaS easier but as I almost always killed everyone anyway I don't really know.
 

St. Toxic

Arcane
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,098
Location
Yemen / India
I'm talking melee of course. The fight seemed like it might be easy with magic or bows if that is what you are talking about?

No, they're pretty easy in melee. You just circle them around the pillars until you get both attacking you from the same direction and then get your hits in. Not sure which one is the easiest in 1v1 though; Orn is faster, but his hits are aimed for specific targets so they're easier to dodge, while Smough is slow as shit but does aoe dmg so it's more important to know when to disengage.

Stingrays in DeS were only really a problem in one level (4-1 IIRC) and even then only because you had that narrow ledge you had to walk on for a long while.

That ledge was griefer paradise (4-2 I think). But they were there for practically the entire chapter (lvl1&2&3) including ofc. the boss fight, tossing javelins at you from afar. I can't recall any enemies in DaS that had the same sort of constant presence, rather than fixed spawn locations.

Had to think about what you meant by necromancers but I guess you mean those Reapers. I was actually a bit let down by them as I didn't die a single time to them and I heard they were tough. And wasn't there only a handful of them

That's right, Reapers and Shadowlurkers. Three reaps in total. I always thought it was easy to lose control of the situation and get swarmed with lurkers, especially where you had to walk down those stairs with lurkers coming at you.

It's possible that you could ignore combat in DaS easier but as I almost always killed everyone anyway I don't really know.

No lvl 1 runs?
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,817
Dedicate multiplayer servers will even out the odds for PvP: less lag or both players will suffer from the same amount of lag.

The player closest to the geographical location of the dedicated server will still have a better response time, so it's still down to the match-making. Could also mean a lot of mp downtime overall.

Look, I'm sick of this retarded argument.

1) Geographical location is *ALWAYS* important for inter-computer communication independent of the network topology.

2) Yes, match-making is very important. Again it *always* is but at this point we don't know what changes will be in the final game. Maybe it will be better, maybe it will be worse. We simply don't know.

3) Out of blue air based on one neutral truism and one hunch you state that it could mean a lot of mp downtime. :retarded:

They go back to the DeS dedicated servers system and you complain about it?
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,817
Q&S is a trick boss, did you try soloing them? They're laughably easy when you don't have to worry about them switching targets. DeS had a lot more cramped areas, more ledges to fall to your doom, spear-chucking stingrays that aggroed from 200 m away and necromancers that spawned infinite ghosts. DaS almost seemed geared towards low level runs, as you could ignore direct combat in almost every situation. DeS, in comparison, had a lot of "corridors" with enemies stuck right in the middle of them.

No, they're pretty easy in melee. You just circle them around the pillars until you get both attacking you from the same direction and then get your hits in. Not sure which one is the easiest in 1v1 though; Orn is faster, but his hits are aimed for specific targets so they're easier to dodge, while Smough is slow as shit but does aoe dmg so it's more important to know when to disengage.

Bullshit.

Trick boss means that you can kill it in a way which makes the player's skills irrelevant.

But then you actually say: "You just circle them around the pillars until you get both attacking you from the same direction and then get your hits in" which basically means that the fight is easy if the player has the skills to pull it off.

How retarded can you be?

No lvl 1 runs?

Yep. No lvl 1 run on my side.

But how do you answer to the same question?
 
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St. Toxic

Arcane
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,098
Location
Yemen / India
Look, I'm sick of this retarded argument

Why? Because it makes you look retarded?

1) Geographical location is *ALWAYS* important for inter-computer communication independent of the network topology.

less lag or both players will suffer from the same amount of lag.

So that's out.

2) Yes, match-making is very important. Again it *always* is but at this point we don't know what changes will be in the final game. Maybe it will be better, maybe it will be worse. We simply don't know.

Then stfu. LOL.
icon_drunk.gif


3) Out of blue air based on one neutral truism and one hunch you state that it could mean a lot of mp downtime. :retarded:

Like in DeS.

They go back to the DeS dedicated servers system and you complain about it?

Yeah. :roll:

Trick boss means that you can kill it in a way which makes the player's skills irrelevant.

In that case you misunderstood me, there's only a couple of those in DaS. I meant trick boss in the sense that you're supposed to get discouraged and summon phantoms, but that's when the boss really starts to shine (if you get a balanced team, that is, which is rare) and crushes a lot of noobs with its refocusing on targets.

I only beat it on the second try and thought it was easy, but while I phantomed it for souls and hums I got to see it v.s teams -- that shit is brutal. So you're being tricked in that sense; unless you get op phantoms, which I'm assuming is more common today than when I last played it, you'll have a harder time against it than you would solo. Sure Solare isn't bad, you can use him to get rid of some focus, but since they still do a lot of target switching and burst dmg you'll probably end up with a less predictable win ratio

But then you actually say: "You just circle them around the pillars until you get both attacking you from the same direction and then get your hits in" which basically means that the fight is easy if the player has the skills to pull it off.

What, you think that's skill? Standing in between them and dodging while doing dmg would be skill. This is just a strat that you can use to guide your friends through the fight while they're playing, and they generally get it on the third try not having played the game before. Didn't you ever show off Dark Souls to your buddies?

How retarded can you be?

Don't worry, you don't have to think of me as competition. I couldn't possibly reach your levels of tard.

But how do you answer to the same question?

I did 3 iirc, though I haven't explored the dlc any, so that's only in vanilla. I really enjoyed building low-lvl pk's.
 
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Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,234
spamming moon grass/spice is so fucking hardcore in demons soul.:roll: Funny thing that retard DPS had more problems with Dark Souls until one of his fans gave him gravelordsword +5 than he had with Demons souls.
Also
magic system in Dark souls >magic system in demons
O&S/Artorias>Flamelurker
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
What does SL1 have to do with skipping enemies? I killed almost everything during my SL1 playthrough, while on a speedrun which practically only kills bosses I'm level 40 at the beginning of Anor Londo.

Anyway, St. Toxic is full of shit regarding O&S. Getting them to attack you from the same direction does not do shit if they decide to use attacks which force you to disengage, like Smough's long shovel. You can spend half an hour doing this and barely take off half of Ornstein's hp if their AI doesn't cooperate with you. What it's really about is being able to identify an opportunity to do damage, and knowing how many hits you can safely get in. Most players take a lot of time before they learn not to be too greedy and are comfortable enough with O&S' movesets to be able to dodge everything effectively and not run out of flasks before it ends just from random hits here and there.
 

St. Toxic

Arcane
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,098
Location
Yemen / India
What does SL1 have to do with skipping enemies? I killed almost everything during my SL1 playthrough

It's a waste of time because you won't be using the souls. You just want to get all the necessary gear and onto NG+. SL1 has a limited repertoire of usable weapons and it takes a while before you can get any upgrades. Skipping enemies and boss fights allows the route of upgrades first, to make the rest of the game imba in your favor.

Getting them to attack you from the same direction does not do shit if they decide to use attacks which force you to disengage, like Smough's long shovel.

The pillars are 100% efficient at blocking any attack provided you're outside of swinging range, so the only way you can take damage is if you get flanked. Smough can't do it, Ornstein can; line them up and take them out -- that's it.

You can spend half an hour doing this and barely take off half of Ornstein's hp if their AI doesn't cooperate with you.

If you can do it continuously for half an hour, that just shows the effectiveness of the strategy.

What it's really about is being able to identify an opportunity to do damage, and knowing how many hits you can safely get in. Most players take a lot of time before they learn not to be too greedy and are comfortable enough with O&S' movesets to be able to dodge everything effectively and not run out of flasks before it ends just from random hits here and there.

It's true, but that's why this strat is so noob friendly, as it doesn't rely on directly dodging attacks in order to get hits in. Ranged combat makes it a lot easier, but even with melee you're at liberty to simply run up and get a few hits in without taking any damage.

magic system in Dark souls >magic system in demons

Nah, bring back spice and mana.

O&S/Artorias>Flamelurker

Yeah, sounds about right.
 

Cynic

Arcane
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
1,850
That positive feedback loop sounds awful and that coupled with their obfuscation of mechanics means I'll never bother with this no matter how Josh-approved it is.

what is this even supposed to mean?
Dying continuously puts you in a progressively worse position = bad positive feedback loop. If someone is doing poorly, making the game harder for them isn't going to make them play better.

Obfuscation of mechanics = needing to read a wiki on the internet to understand what's going on under the hood so you can make informed character building choices. Challenge through guesswork is dumb. I get the impression this is a series made by dummies who managed to nail real-time action combat but not much else.

Fuck you are a moron.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,817
What does SL1 have to do with skipping enemies? I killed almost everything during my SL1 playthrough, while on a speedrun which practically only kills bosses I'm level 40 at the beginning of Anor Londo.

Anyway, St. Toxic is full of shit regarding O&S. Getting them to attack you from the same direction does not do shit if they decide to use attacks which force you to disengage, like Smough's long shovel. You can spend half an hour doing this and barely take off half of Ornstein's hp if their AI doesn't cooperate with you. What it's really about is being able to identify an opportunity to do damage, and knowing how many hits you can safely get in. Most players take a lot of time before they learn not to be too greedy and are comfortable enough with O&S' movesets to be able to dodge everything effectively and not run out of flasks before it ends just from random hits here and there.

Don't argue with the moron. His MO is to bullshit you more for each sentence.
 

thesheeep

Arcane
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Tampere, Finland
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To those of you who played DS rather successfully:
Did you play with keyboard+mouse or gamepad?

I ask because I played with keyboard + mouse (I always do on PC, even if the game tells me otherwise) and ragequit after 6 hours or so. Finally beat some boss, then couldn't find a campfire (note to game designers: ALWAYS have some kind of saving mechanism after a boss) and got killed by random mobs. Lost ~3 hours of trying to beat the boss. Couldn't be assed to march through all the cannon fodder mobs to the boss again. Too frustrating for me.

Maybe it would have been easier with a gamepad? Not that I would ever like to use one on PC (note to game designers: if you do a game for PC, make the PC controls work!), but it would be interesting to know.
 

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