Dark Sun vs Baldurs Gate

[luj1]

Dark Sun > Fallout >>>>>>>>>>>>> Baldurs Gate

 

[octavius]

I bet most who voted Dark Sun still spent more hours playing and bitching about Baldur's Gate.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Fallout > Dark Sun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Baldurs Gate

 

[ProphetSword]

I bet most who voted Dark Sun still spent more hours playing and bitching about Baldur's Gate.

To be fair, there was more to bitch about when it came to Baldur's Gate.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I bet most who voted Dark Sun still spent more hours playing and bitching about Baldur's Gate.

Maybe, in my case because i didn't know about Dark Sun before, or i would have replayed it 5 times already which i'm never going to do with BG and did only once with BG2, with great pain.

Hopefully, someone is going to use Dark Sun Settings in a Turn-Based RPG again and we can flush BGs down the toilet once and for all.

 

[Roguey]

I find it utterly delightful how all many of the BG superfans are too embarrassed to vote in this poll despite the fact that BG2 and BG creamed Shattered Lands in the Codex poll.

 

[Lilura]

I find it utterly delightful how all the BG superfans are too embarrassed to vote in this poll despite the fact that BG2 and BG creamed Shattered Lands in the Codex poll.

I voted for BG. It's clearly the better, deeper and more interesting game. It's also the most played Renaissance-era RPG. reddit and 'Dex can't stop talking about it.

I don't see any prolific commentators for Dark Sun. If there are Dark Sun super-fans, and if Dark Sun is so good, where are 90+ write-ups for the game in the last two years (like I have posted for BG). That goes for all these "Golden Age" RPGs. Has anyone posted 90+ recent write-ups (or even half that) for any single "Golden Age" title? Or how about an entire series like Goldbox, Wizardry or Might & Magic? No, because they're just not deep enough or interesting enough.

Basically, almost no one is playing these old "Golden Age" games. People mostly just read about them on crpgaddict, watch youtube vids (it's a curiousity thing), and mention them on forums to score cheap coolpoints with what they think are the hardcore, grognard crowd.

At the end of the day though, it's the Renaissance era RPGs that are the most hardcore/grognard: first and foremost, Jagged alliance 2, ToEE, Silent Storm Fallout and Arcanum. Then the second-tier IEs and their tactics/resource management mods. Even the "lowly" NWN has its grognard representation in Swordflight.

 

[Grauken]

No, it's because most of us have a life

 

[Lilura]

Yes, I'm sure the life of a "Blobber enthusiast" is fulfilling, lol

 

[Removal]

Dark Sun wins this by virtue of being turn based and the setting being vastly more interesting. I know I'd certainly rather play Dark Sun again than BG1

 

[Micormic]

I find it utterly delightful how all many of the BG superfans are too embarrassed to vote in this poll despite the fact that BG2 and BG creamed Shattered Lands in the Codex poll.[/S]

I didn't vote because I don't care but didn't Morrowind beat them both?

Has anyone posted 90+ recent write-ups

Also to you, if game quality was measured by the amount of autists who waste their lives with 'write ups' which mostly amount to echo chambers and self indulgence. I'm pretty sure everyone's favorite oblivion or skyrim would be the greatest games of all time.

The rest of your post is filled with the usual autism but I'd agree with you that people who aren't old enough to of played the gold box games tend to romanticize that era to act popular and hardcore among other autists here. That being said Dark Sun isn't a shitty gold box or wizardry blobber, it actually had good gameplay especially considering the time it came out.

 

[Lilura]

Dark Sun wins this by virtue of being turn based and the setting being vastly more interesting.

The turn-based combat isn't even as tactical as BG's shitty RTwP, though. You don't have many options in combat encounters or ways to approach them. Also, party of 4 is just sad. If it was Jagged Alliance 2 (party of 18) or ToEE level of turn-based, where you also actually have decent tactical options for combat units, then yeah. But it isn't. Not even close.

As for the setting, the game barely explores it. Deserts, psi and Thri-Kreen. Whoop-de-doo?

The BG setting is more interesting despite being generic FR. It's all in the execution. Durlag's Tower alone blows Dark Sun away.

Dark Sun has a clunky af UI, sprites/anims not even as good as Lemmings (a puzzle game from 1991), and bugs galore.

Someone mentions Dark Sun and *20 'tards brofist this* is just pathetic. Most of you are just posers who haven't even played the game. You just watched a vid on youtube or read someone's opinion of it, which you then parrot about in an attempt to come off as oldschool, hardcore and grognard.

Laughable, and typical of Joined 2017 newfags.

 

[Micormic]

Has anyone posted 90+ recent write-ups

Also to you, if game quality was measured by the amount of autists who waste their lives with 'write ups' which mostly amount to echo chambers and self indulgence. I'm pretty sure everyone's favorite oblivion or skyrim would be the greatest games of all time.

The rest of your post is filled with the usual autism but I'd agree with you that people who aren't old enough to of played the gold box games tend to romanticize that era to act popular and hardcore among other autists here. That being said Dark Sun isn't a shitty gold box or wizardry blobber, it actually had good gameplay especially considering the time it came out.

Much as I want to praise Dark Sun, there really isn't much C&C to speak of.

You're flat out wrong and should replay the game again.

There are mutually exclusive quests, mutually exclusive allies for the final battle, and your dialogue choices will often create various scripted outcomes.

mutually exclusive quests (off the top of my head): three ways to escape the slave pens, and the choice between crazed templar vs. ratmen. That's it really. Any others?

I never played to the end battle again after being hit by The Bug once; but a lot of people have said the allies you recruit don't show up in the last battle. Which is it?

"various scripted outcomes" for dialogue, welp, I think the most impressive example remains how the arena master summons crazy strong monsters to roflstomp your face if you're cheeky. Not much else after that.

I mean if you're comparing it to the CNC in BG it's not that much of a competition either lol.


Off the top of my head;

The wizard in beregost with Garrick
The dryad next to the gnoll stronghold you can kill or help
Edwin and the retard and his monkey
The dude in cloakwood with the druids
The quest with the kids and the boogeyman in NW bg


I'm sure there's a few I forgot but aside from a few binary good vs evil choices it's not much more. Not that I'm complaining about this necessarily since this is more C&C then 90% of RPG's. Just pointing out it's hypocritical to criticize a game for lack of CNC when the game you're comparing it to also lacks CNC.

 

[Lilura]

That being said Dark Sun isn't a shitty gold box or wizardry blobber

It's only one rung higher on the ladder, which isn't saying much.

it actually had good gameplay especially considering the time it came out.

It's an historical curiousity, nothing more. Barely anyone plays it because it hasn't aged well and wasn't all that good to begin with. Like most of the so-called "Golden Age" RPGs.

As for reactivity, I remember one guy saying you can bribe the guards, sneak out or pile in with the brutes and smash your way out. How primitive is that? Again, its concepts are nothing but an historical curiousity for people who prefer to read about and watch other people play games:

"Oh, this looks cool! (But I'll never play it. Look at those godawful graphics, that shitty dialogue, and that clunky af UI and how primitive everything is. I think I'll go and play any number of Renaissance RPGs instead. They do everything better.")

 

[Micormic]

As for reactivity, I remember one guy saying you can bribe the guards, sneak out or pile in with the brutes and smash your way out. How primitive is that? Again, its concepts are nothing but an historical curiousity for people who prefer to read about and watch other people play games.

Ok, which parts of BG have more interactive situational choices then this.



Because I remember the vast majority of the game was bioware's binary:


1. be good dude
2. be bad dude


3. it's a story quest NO CHOICES

 

[cruelio]

Baldur's Gate wins by default because unlike Dark Sun it never glitched out and randomly deleted a plot-central item from a character's inventory, permanently halting all progress.

 

[Safav Hamon]

As for reactivity, I remember one guy saying you can bribe the guards, sneak out or pile in with the brutes and smash your way out. How primitive is that? Again, its concepts are nothing but an historical curiousity for people who prefer to read about and watch other people play games:

Or you can accept a mission from a prisoner to find a hidden gem, which you can only locate by bringing water to a tied up agent in the arena. After you return the ruby to the prisoner, he betrays you to the templars. The head templar sets you free on the condition that you deliver a message for him.

That starting area of Dark Sun has more player agency than all of Baldurs Gate.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

With party size of 4 you get:
1) Fighter/Paladin
2) Cleric/Druid
3) Wizard
4) Thief

With party size of 5 and more the game starts to feel like nuFallout games or some other popamole rpg where you can max and have everything without any need to sacrifice or plan. I'd say playing with more than 4 character in your dnd party is worse than using cheats to give them 18 in all stats...

 

[Lilura]

Also, BG's writing is far superior. Consider the following, the jewel in crown:

 

[octavius]

Dark Sun wins this by virtue of being turn based and the setting being vastly more interesting. I know I'd certainly rather play Dark Sun again than BG1

And Baldur's Gate wins by default by actually having challenging combat.
And being moddable also makes it by default more replayable.

Dark Sun wins this by virtue of being turn based and the setting being vastly more interesting.

The turn-based combat isn't even as tactical as BG's shitty RTwP, though. You don't have many options in combat encounters or ways to approach them. Also, party of 4 is just sad. If it was Jagged Alliance 2 (party of 18) or ToEE level of turn-based, where you also actually have decent tactical options for combat units, then yeah. But it isn't. Not even close.

As for the setting, the game barely explores it. Deserts, psi and Thri-Kreen. Whoop-de-doo?

The BG setting is more interesting despite being generic FR. It's all in the execution. Durlag's Tower alone blows Dark Sun away.

Agree with this.
I felt not enough was made out of the desert setting.

 

[Black Angel]

I don't see any prolific commentators for Dark Sun. If there are Dark Sun super-fans, and if Dark Sun is so good, where are 90+ write-ups for the game in the last two years (like I have posted for BG). That goes for all these "Golden Age" RPGs. Has anyone posted 90+ recent write-ups (or even half that) for any single "Golden Age" title? Or how about an entire series like Goldbox, Wizardry or Might & Magic? No, because they're just not deep enough or interesting enough.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/dark-sun-shattered-lands-is-fucking-great.120635/

Anyway, OP is a fucking NPC and all his threads are Overrated™

 

[Lilura]

With party size of 5 and more the game starts to feel like nuFallout games or some other popamole rpg where you can max and have everything without any need to sacrifice or plan. I'd say playing with more than 4 character in your dnd party is worse than using cheats to give them 18 in all stats...

Au contraire. Smaller parties and soloing increases power progression due to faster leveling. This is true of every IE game, from BG to PS:T. This is true of ToEE and PoR: RoMD as well. In the vast majority of cases, over-leveled solo/smaller parties are more powerful than six under-leveled ones. This is mostly due to spellcasting range/slot progression and ApR/BAB progression. Most people who have rolled with smaller parties/solos admit that it's less EZ when they go back to six-person parties. The others are liars.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

With party size of 5 and more the game starts to feel like nuFallout games or some other popamole rpg where you can max and have everything without any need to sacrifice or plan. I'd say playing with more than 4 character in your dnd party is worse than using cheats to give them 18 in all stats...

Au contraire. Smaller parties and soloing increases power progression due to faster leveling. This is true of every IE game, from BG to PS:T. This is true of ToEE and PoR: RoMD as well. In the vast majority of cases, over-leveled solo/smaller parties are more powerful than six under-leveled ones. This is mostly due to spellcasting range/slot progression and ApR/BAB progression. Most people who have rolled with smaller parties/solos admit that it's less EZ when they go back to six-person parties. The others are liars.

This is true for poorly designed games which presume player is going to use popamole 5+ character party.
In good dnd games like KOTC 4-man party is great and it feels better than 6 man party in other dnd games designed for 6 man parties...

 

[octavius]

Most people who have rolled with smaller parties/solos admit that it's less EZ when they go back to six-person parties. The others are liars.

I dunno...I found Trials of the Luremaster impossible with a F/M/T without massive reloading (maybe I should have cheesed more by shameless summoning). At least with a party you can always resurrect fallen comrades instead of save scumming.
The rest of IWD went quite smoothly.
I don't usually do solo runs in party based games, though.

 

[Lilura]

I dunno...I found Trials of the Luremaster impossible with a F/M/T without massive reloading (maybe I should have cheesed more by shameless summoning).

I did say "in the vast majority of cases", but it's probably just a lack of blanket immunities to negative status effects in that case. TotLM throws a heap at you, and as a solo character you would have plataeu'd out long before, and so you're relying on better itemization to powerup further.

Triple classes are sort of an exception, too. Well, at least the FMC in BG2. The weak encounter design favors their staying power less than FMT (which has acute backstab and Spike Traps as well as UAI), and you have to buff them hard in ToB in order to keep them afloat and effective. Still, they are almost invincible when buffed (though, as you know, eschewing the Cleric and just going Fighter/Mage double is way better).