Game News David Gaider's reaction to Rock, Paper, Shotgun preview

[Hümmelgümpf]

Okay so it's not just "give her a book and then she fucks you"

It's more along the lines of:
-find her lost ruby gem
-when she asks you if you like dogs say "yes"
-get her compliment stat above 47
-give her a Mango Fruit at least once a day
-give her a book
-she fucks you

Still forced. Love doesn't work that way.

 

[Ogg]

This reminds me of when Fox News blew Mass Effect's sex scene totally out of proportion... only this time it's the company itself that took a sex scene out of context.

Very weird.

Any publicity is good publicity. They saw it worked with ME, tried to use the same trick with DA.

 

[flushfire]

Okay so it's not just "give her a book and then she fucks you"

It's more along the lines of:
-find her lost ruby gem
-when she asks you if you like dogs say "yes"
-get her compliment stat above 47
-give her a Mango Fruit at least once a day
-give her a book
-she fucks you

Still forced. Love doesn't work that way.

i agree. it works like this:
-be emo/be a wigger
-chat with her at least thrice a week
-go out at least once
-buy her that thing she always eyes/talks about
-she fucks you

other times it works like this:
-be famous
-she fucks you

its supposed to be a ARPG, not a dating sim. get over it.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

its supposed to be a ARPG, not a dating sim. get over it.

Then what are romances doing there in the first place? They feel forced, are badly written and don't really add anything to the game.

 

[flushfire]

its supposed to be a ARPG, not a dating sim. get over it.

Then what are romances doing there in the first place? They feel forced, are badly written and don't really add anything to the game.

for people who want them, isn't that obvious already? you're given a choice to pursue it or not, that's all that matters.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

for people who want them, isn't that obvious already? you're given a choice to pursue it or not, that's all that matters.

Arcanum is perfectly balanced, even if Harm is overpowered, because you can roll a fighter, and that's all that matters. Even if you won't encounter shitty content on your playthrough, it doesn't mean shitty content isn't there.

 

[flushfire]

for people who want them, isn't that obvious already? you're given a choice to pursue it or not, that's all that matters.

Arcanum is perfectly balanced, even if Harm is overpowered, because you can roll a fighter, and that's all that matters. Even if you won't encounter shitty content on your playthrough, it doesn't mean shitty content isn't there.

and yet it's one of the best in its genre. in MOTB clerics are overpowered but it's hailed as one of the best RPGs in recent years. in Fallout 2 the Bozar made everything else obsolete, but did it really matter? in those games the elements that mattered in a RPG were done properly. if they were strategy games on the other hand then your argument makes perfect sense. too bad they aren't.

DA is supposed to be a ARPG, as long as it's combat is not VATS and the game doesn't allow you to be jack of all trades stat-wise then we can overlook the shitty romances esp. because you have a choice to do so in-game.

 

[CrimsonAngel]

Honestly i am one of these people that like well written romance's in games. Now the key her is "WELL WRITTEN" and not this crap they have done in Jade Empire and Mass effect so far.

Viciona and Harper Elf chick romance lines where not bad. They made sense, where well written and over all seemed well thought out. Even the Bald red wizard in Mask of the Betrayer had a pretty good romance line also.

Well written romance liens and even sex in a storie can enhance it the world if done right.

But with mass effect and jade empire they never managed to write something good so they settle for cheep "huhu lesbian sex" strategy.

 

[Haba]

Re: David Gaider's reaction to

I hope we can. I still believe this is a game worth the time of the RPG fan, very much so.

I smell a familiar scent in the morning dew. Yes... despair.

 

[kris]

Mass Effect could have been on the right track, as it was a planned trilogy where your saved games would carry over to the next game. So, say, by the third game, it might actually make sense for the PC to have a romantic relation with one of the characters.

Sadly no.

Execpt in reality that seldom is a more realisitic scenario. People seldom take years to get together, especially in highly tense scenarios. Yes, if you want to make a big romantic epic, then that would be the way. Otherwise the woman/man would be crazy about all the hesitation and move on to someone else.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

for people who want them, isn't that obvious already? you're given a choice to pursue it or not, that's all that matters.

Arcanum is perfectly balanced, even if Harm is overpowered, because you can roll a fighter, and that's all that matters. Even if you won't encounter shitty content on your playthrough, it doesn't mean shitty content isn't there.

and yet it's one of the best in its genre. in MOTB clerics are overpowered but it's hailed as one of the best RPGs in recent years. in Fallout 2 the Bozar made everything else obsolete, but did it really matter? in those games the elements that mattered in a RPG were done properly. if they were strategy games on the other hand then your argument makes perfect sense. too bad they aren't.

DA is supposed to be a ARPG, as long as it's combat is not VATS and the game doesn't allow you to be jack of all trades stat-wise then we can overlook the shitty romances esp. because you have a choice to do so in-game.

You're missing the point. Install Fallout 2, create a low-IN character, tag combat skills only, and see how many options you really are going to have on your hands with a char like this. Combat will be pretty much your only option, and the game will get old, fast. What I'm trying to say is that when judging an RPG, or any non-linear game, for that matter, you can't form an objective, exhaustive impression of what the game really is like if you don't play through it more than once. You should always judge it as a whole. You were smart enough to stay away from romances in a Bio game? Good for you. A lot of poor suckers weren't as insightful as you and walked right into the hurricane of childish writing and really bad voice acting. Does that make their opinion on the game any less valid than yours? You can't just pretend that subpar content isn't in the game if it can be avoided. That's what delusional fanboys who can't take any criticism do. Don't be like them.

 

[MetalCraze]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... nRejection

DA is a 3rd Bioware game where sex is a main selling point. The first one was JE - and if you think that lesbian sex is extreme - in JE Bioware had some hawt male gay action, but cut it out (it is still in the game files obviously as there is a video of it on JewTube) because obviously that "doesn't fit this game" (while lesbian sex is a-ok) which was the answer for DA. No seriously with the way Bioware is moving it makes me think that they are sexless closet faggots.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ErectionRejection

DA is a 3rd Bioware game where sex is a main selling point. The first one was JE - and if you think that lesbian sex is extreme - in JE Bioware had some hawt male gay action, but cut it out (it is still in the game files obviously as there is a video of it on JewTube) because obviously that "doesn't fit this game" (while lesbian sex is a-ok) which was the answer for DA. No seriously with the way Bioware is moving it makes me think that they are sexless closet faggots.

Sky/Male protagonist romance wasn't cut from the final game. A fade to black does happen before the Kiss of True Love, but bad dialogue is there in its full glory.

 

[flushfire]

You're missing the point.(snip)

no you

if you make a low-INT, combat skills only character in Fallout chances are you know what you're doing and you wanted your PC to be just that, a low-INT combat oriented character. will you get tired of the game fast because all you got were mostly combat options? (which isn't exactly true btw in that example) probably not. you didn't want to be a diplomat, you wanted combat. a player wanting the most dialogue options open to him with that character will probably get tired of it, but not the one who created that PC and got the experience that he wanted. of course if you were stupid enough to think that a low-INT combat oriented PC will grant you lots of smart dialogue then who is to blame?

lol at can't take criticism. can't take bitching is more like it. how can claiming the romance in DA "forced" when you haven't even played it or even seen it yourself? "that's now how love works"? if bhlaab's post is accurate you get to have sex with the girl after spending some time and more than a little effort while travelling with her. FFS you have to give her a mango once a day. i won't give a girl i really like a ride home everyday, but i know some guys who will. its different for a lot of people. claiming that's not the way love works might be correct for you, but not for someone else.

the opinion of someone bitching about the romance options in a ARPG (which by the way, he hasn't even seen yet) is certainly less valid than mine. its like playing an indie RPG and expecting the graphics to be on-par with modern FPSs.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

if you make a low-INT, combat skills only character in Fallout chances are you know what you're doing and you wanted your PC to be just that, a low-INT combat oriented character. will you get tired of the game fast because all you got were mostly combat options? (which isn't exactly true btw in that example) probably not. you didn't want to be a diplomat, you wanted combat. a player wanting the most dialogue options open to him with that character will probably get tired of it, but not the one who created that PC and got the experience that he wanted. of course if you were stupid enough to think that a low-INT combat oriented PC will grant you lots of smart dialogue then who is to blame?

I guess I didn't formulate what I was trying to tell well. You're saying that DA won't be such a bad game because you can choose to skip all the bad bits, correct? I'm saying that Fallout 2 is complete rubbish because you can choose to skip all the good bits.

lol at can't take criticism. can't take bitching is more like it. how can claiming the romance in DA "forced" when you haven't even played it or even seen it yourself?

I think I have seen it. I have no reason to doubt countless journalists who described the Morrigan incident in excruciating detail.

"that's now how love works"? if bhlaab's post is accurate you get to have sex with the girl after spending some time and more than a little effort while travelling with her. FFS you have to give her a mango once a day. i won't give a girl i really like a ride home everyday, but i know some guys who will. its different for a lot of people. claiming that's not the way love works might be correct for you, but not for someone else.

Right, I'm sure bhlaab was quoting a developer and wasn't making fun of the bullshit coming out of Gaider's mouth. This is the Codex, man. Can't you tell a joke when you see it?

the opinion of someone bitching about the romance options in a ARPG (which by the way, he hasn't even seen yet) is certainly less valid than mine. its like playing an indie RPG and expecting the graphics to be on-par with modern FPSs.

Bad argument. BioWare doesn't have to put the romances in their games. In fact, if they didn't, the average quality of dialogue in their RPGs would increase significantly. On the other hand, indie developers have no alternative to outdated graphics other than switching to text-based interface, something that obviously isn't going to happen because indie games are niche enough as it is.

 

[flushfire]

I guess I didn't formulate what I was trying to tell well. You're saying that DA won't be such a bad game because you can choose to skip all the bad bits, correct? I'm saying that Fallout 2 is complete rubbish because you can choose to skip all the good bits.

im not saying DA won't be such a bad game. im saying judging DA to be a bad game because a seemingly unrealistic sex scene happens after you put a lot of effort to get there yourself isn't the conclusion someone expecting a ARPG experience would make. im only talking about the romance and that makes your point moot, romance in some of the better bioware games HAVE to be pursued and can be totally skipped. even if you had to put some effort into skipping them it'd only take a single response. the badly written and voice acted romance doesn't make the game bad by itself, because the game is not a dating sim.

by your logic Arcanum is truly complete rubbish because its combat isn't well executed, and you'd really have to make an effort to skip most combat in that game.

Right, I'm sure bhlaab was quoting a developer and wasn't making fun of the bullshit coming out of Gaider's mouth. This is the Codex, man. Can't you tell a joke when you see it?

right. there is an IF there. my point is there's no universal, always correct definition as to how love works.

Bad argument. BioWare doesn't have to put the romances in their games. In fact, if they didn't, the average quality of dialogue in their RPGs would increase significantly. On the other hand, indie developers have no alternative to outdated graphics other than switching to text-based interface, something that obviously isn't going to happen because indie games are niche enough as it is.

and that sad excuse for TB combat didn't have to exist in Arcanum. still, it's there, totally optional. does it make the game worst RPG of all time?
as for DA, if Bioware gets the story, C&C, dialogue, atmosphere, character system, combat system, graphics and music absolutly perfect, the game is still bad because it has an awkward sex scene? i guess that's why they make it optional then.

all im saying is you don't see AoD trailers focusing on it's critical death animations (i don't know how they are now, but the ones i saw a few days ago weren't exactly spectacular, the attacker animations made it seem like weapons were made of paper) yet they are there. does it make the game bad because it doesn't have to be there yet it's there? i dont think so. there's probably an option to turn the animations off. it's not bioware's fault that whoever made the trailer focused on the awkward sex scene.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

im not saying DA won't be such a bad game. im saying judging DA to be a bad game because a seemingly unrealistic sex scene happens after you put a lot of effort to get there yourself isn't the conclusion someone expecting a ARPG experience would make. im only talking about the romance and that makes your point moot, romance in some of the better bioware games HAVE to be pursued and can be totally skipped. even if you had to put some effort into skipping them it'd only take a single response. the badly written and voice acted romance doesn't make the game bad by itself, because the game is not a dating sim.

I'm saying that a bad sex scene is a bad sex scene. Since it's a part of the game it should be taken into consideration when judging said game. It's not a deal-breaker for me, but I don't know why I shouldn't call out bad writing when I see it. This is all.

so if they get the story, C&C, dialogue, atmosphere, character system, combat system, graphics and music absolutly perfect, the game is still bad because it has an awkward sex scene that you have the obvious option not to follow through? i guess that's why they make it optional then.

The problem? All things you listed will suck. It's BioWare. They've been selling shit since day one, and they have no real reason to improve because it keeps selling. But let's double-check:
1. Story. No way it's going to be good. Even the plot twist has been predicted already, and I'll drink a glass of my cat's piss if this prediction doesn't come true.
2. C&C. Hasn't been spotted in a Bio game thus far.
3. Dialogue. What has been shown thus far is bad.
4. Atmosphere. Lots of blood, half-naked ladies, Marilyn Manson. Let's not go there.
5. Character system. Not going to be good. It will be geared towards combat and combat alone.
6. Combat system. RTwP that combines both the chaos of RT and low speed of TB in one magnificent package.
7. Graphics. Bad, both technically and artistically.
8. Music. May actually be good, unless they decide to switch to Marilyn Manson.
Trust me, romances are the least of DA's problems.

 

[flushfire]

i don't remember disagreeing. i said the bad sex scene is there for people who want it and being optional, should not be that big of a deal as it's not a huge part of the game.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Oh. The game still would be slightly better without it.

 

[The Feral Kid]

Still forced. Love doesn't work that way.

In your case it worked. That's how you were born.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Didn't know you were posting here, Dad.

 

[The Feral Kid]

Didn't know you were posting here, Dad.

No, I don't post in threads where igno-rant kids raised on the internet complain why some stupid game isn't the literary equivalent of Romeo and Juliet, Son.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Come on, my standards aren't that high. All I want from video game writers is basic competence.

 

[Ahzaruuk]

Didn't know you were posting here, Dad.

No, I don't post in threads where igno-rant kids raised on the internet complain why some stupid game isn't the literary equivalent of Romeo and Juliet, Son.

They don't have to be Shakespeare. They do have to use some sense of their brain that's not between their legs, on the other hand.

 

[obediah]

His post at rpgwatch. com is not so much taking issue with the RPS preview of the game, but seems more to be taking issue with the marketing direction that's been taking recently.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

Gaider is just playing his street cred to string along the old school fans until release. DA will be a blood pumping thrill-ride as you fuck and kill your way through the grittiest and most xxxtreme generic fantasy world you can build with mild nudity, soap opera sex scenes, profanity, and ultraviolence. That is the game Bio/EA thinks 3-5 million console owners want, and that is the game they will get.

Gaider's role is to keep the few hundred thousand old school people unhappy about this change of direction still interested enough to buy the game.

It's not a complicated or new concept. Whenever you want to rape a franchise, setting, or brand name, you start off very low key. Small announcements and forum posts targeted towards the old fan base. The "we know you've been waiting a long time .. back to roots ... tribute to the fans ..." quotes, and probably a vague warning about a "few, small, necessary changes to modernize that will in no way compromise the soul of the original".

These continue for a while to build up enthusiasm in the core audience, and then the main marketing push happens and the shit starts flowing. But the smart developers keep a low key channel open with the old timers and keep them as happy as possible.