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KickStarter Dead State: Reanimated
- Thread starter Infinitron
- Start date
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- Apr 15, 2010
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The meltdown in that thread is amusing at least.
She sounds like a madwoman though.
There's a google cache here and he seems entirely polite:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...5109/?insideModal=1+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I guess they took huge offense at the idea that they released the game unfinished so they can cash in on Christmas, which is obviously what they did.
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Multi-headed Cow
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Azrael the cat I don't exactly which games you're talking about, but from my experience with games from the 1980s, they were rarely very buggy. They were just too simple to have many bugs. It's my impression that the notion of RPGs as a "buggy genre" began in the early-to-mid 90s, with games like Darklands, Wake of the Ravager, etc.
Of course, it's possible that my impressions are unrepresentative due to only having played the finest games from that era.
Of course, it's possible that my impressions are unrepresentative due to only having played the finest games from that era.
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the_shadow
Arcane
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I dunno. It seems rather narcissistic to think that just because you're unhappy with a product, that the company should issue a public apology to everyone who brought it. What right does an individual have to demand an apology for people who haven't asked for it? Telling people not to buy the game until they issue one is a pretty shitty thing to do IMHO. If you aren't happy with the product, then contact the company and demand a refund. Attempt to deal with it in a civil manner. Going nuclear by publicly denouncing the company and demanding a boycott is a last resort. I can't blame the producers for being pissed. If they were a large company they could just wave it off, but losing even a few hundred customers could drive them under.
dryan
Arcane
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Nonsense. There is such a thing as warning other people about shitty products, to help them avoid being ripped-off. This has always existed.
Multi-headed Cow
Guest
'cept he is (Mostly) happy with the product, as he said. And getting a refund isn't particularly viable since he's got 85 hours of the game played, Steam's refund policy is flat out no refunds (Unless something's is completely broken to a degree Dead State isn't), and his issue with the game isn't so much the game itself but more the fact that they made it "Version 1.0 released!" when it was still so buggy. Dude probably would've been content if they kept chugging along in early access, his whole complaint is that despite having a successful Kickstarter and whatever money they got from selling it in early access, they still put it out with some pretty big issues. I also wouldn't really say he's demanding a boycott, more stating his displeasure and recommending people skip it. Difference in tone.
circ
Arcane
I wish I had an internet senpai of Brianna's stature.
the_shadow
Arcane
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Your tone can be nice as pie, but there is no ambivalence about the following statement: "I ask people to avoid this game until the game is finished and DoubleBear publicly apologies for its mistakes." Ergo. Don't buy the game until the company issues a public apology. Anyone who plays a game for 85 hours, and then demands a public apology to everyone who played the game, needs to be told to fuck off. It's the equivalent of a diner bitching about the quality of a meal, after having eaten it all, and then demanding that the business owner apologise to all the diners.
As to the piracy issued mentioned by other posters. While I'm all in favour of consumer rights, the pendulum has swung way too far in favour of consumers, to the point where they think it is there right to steal creative content. It's hilarious when posters cheer on piracy, but then get their panties in a wad about the quality of RPGs. When will these degenerates realise that electronic entertainment isn't some universal human right to be provided freely? It's a luxury that requires time, effort and creativity to produce. If a person doesn't want to pay, then they should find an alternative form of entertainment.
As to the piracy issued mentioned by other posters. While I'm all in favour of consumer rights, the pendulum has swung way too far in favour of consumers, to the point where they think it is there right to steal creative content. It's hilarious when posters cheer on piracy, but then get their panties in a wad about the quality of RPGs. When will these degenerates realise that electronic entertainment isn't some universal human right to be provided freely? It's a luxury that requires time, effort and creativity to produce. If a person doesn't want to pay, then they should find an alternative form of entertainment.
Angthoron
Arcane
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- Jul 13, 2007
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- 13,056
The whole thing should actually be very simple:
1) Hey folks! Thanks for an exciting year and [thingies]. We're sorry for all and any of the bugs that made it into the full version, as a small team with a very limited budget and time, we try to do our best, but [stuffies]. Still, it has been a hell of a time, and we've [bla bla pep talk].
2) On that note, Happy Holidays! We will continue to develop and improve the game, and hope you'll like it even more in 2015.
3) [NO personal blog entries, twitting or forum shutdowns on the "home forum" or on Steam threads]
Whoop - apology issued to all the "omg broken" people, at the same time, ass-kissing essentially avoided, anyone unhappy with this note will set themselves to look like a fucking douche to anyone. It's simple! Who knew!
Many pirate when young and lacking income, but have disposable time in spades. Once they get older and wealthier, they'll support devs that did right by them. Simple as that. For everything else, you might as well ask the rain to stop being wet.
1) Hey folks! Thanks for an exciting year and [thingies]. We're sorry for all and any of the bugs that made it into the full version, as a small team with a very limited budget and time, we try to do our best, but [stuffies]. Still, it has been a hell of a time, and we've [bla bla pep talk].
2) On that note, Happy Holidays! We will continue to develop and improve the game, and hope you'll like it even more in 2015.
3) [NO personal blog entries, twitting or forum shutdowns on the "home forum" or on Steam threads]
Whoop - apology issued to all the "omg broken" people, at the same time, ass-kissing essentially avoided, anyone unhappy with this note will set themselves to look like a fucking douche to anyone. It's simple! Who knew!
Many pirate when young and lacking income, but have disposable time in spades. Once they get older and wealthier, they'll support devs that did right by them. Simple as that. For everything else, you might as well ask the rain to stop being wet.
the_shadow
Arcane
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From what I can see, they did the first two points. It's not as if they have just told their customers to eat shit and die, they are still releasing bug fixes. Honestly, it sounds like the developers bit off more than they could chew. If they'd made a simpler game, they probably could have spent the time saved on ironing out all of these bugs.
Still, it really pisses me off when people shit all over small gaming studios. They are content producers. They worked over 3 years on a limited budget ($400,000 is a drop in the ocean) to provide a novel RPG experience, and people are actually suggesting they might pirate their game? Fuck that. If you don't think you'll like it, don't buy it. But don't go stealing it. And instead of bitching about the quality of modern RPGs, why don't all the whiners and leeches get off their fucking ass and do something about it? Give us that epic RPG you're always talking about.
Still, it really pisses me off when people shit all over small gaming studios. They are content producers. They worked over 3 years on a limited budget ($400,000 is a drop in the ocean) to provide a novel RPG experience, and people are actually suggesting they might pirate their game? Fuck that. If you don't think you'll like it, don't buy it. But don't go stealing it. And instead of bitching about the quality of modern RPGs, why don't all the whiners and leeches get off their fucking ass and do something about it? Give us that epic RPG you're always talking about.
dryan
Arcane
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Quite the opposite, video game developers enjoy certain privileges that they didn't in the past and other classes of businessmen don't either. It's gotten to a point where you can get people to pay you for working as a beta-tester for your unfinished & broken game. That's right, that's not even free labor, it's laborers that pay to provide you with a service. It's also now common practice to release incomplete or just plain unpolished stuff because you can just patch it later and customers will put up with it. And if the patch breaks other things in the process, no big deal, just tell them to edit configuration files or shell command lines (recent example: DAI). Not to mention that with crowdfunding, a lot of these guys & gals don't need to be employed by corporations and consequently don't need to adhere to standards of conduct and customer relations, so they can get away with calling them fuckers, shitlords or whatever.
I won't shed a single tear for these motherfucking game developers. They have it easy. Way too easy.
Telengard
Arcane
When you've dug yourself into a position where you can actually use advice from the Ubisoft PR department, you're in a bad place.
Multi-headed Cow
Guest
I can play that game too. It's the equivalent of a diner smelling a delicious pizza for hours, after paying for it before getting his food, and then getting a poorly cooked doughy pizza with good ingredients, then nailing a list of complaints to the front door of the restaurant and at least wanting an apology even though he's starving to death in the gutter. He just wanted a pizza Shadow. He just wanted a goddamn pizza.
Angthoron
Arcane
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- Jul 13, 2007
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- 13,056
Mmm, no. I get what you're saying, and I don't particularly disagree with the premise, but to most people, a game is a game. A buggy game from AAA or a buggy game from a soulful dev with a heart of gold, what does it matter if what you see is bugs bugs bugs? Ubi gets shat on for this, why should some random no-name studio walk away free? Just because their budget is 100 times smaller? Do they charge 100 times less, then, or what? Oh, it's 35e, just as much as an AAA title after the first price drop.
And the stealing logic? Nope. A pirated game is a positive non-sale, actually, because if someone likes your shit, they might buy it, or fuck, they might even promote the game among their friends. This does happen, and it happens a lot in fact. Sure, there's some people (you'll find them on Codex too) that pirate everything out of principle of some kind, but they're not the bulk, the bulk are your average Joe and Jane looking for entertainment. Sure, piracy influences a perceived loss, but in reality, as long as you're doing a good job and manage not to kick the bucket in the process, it's a positive influence. It's not quite as black and white.
DarKPenguiN
Arcane
-Alright, I have played around a bit (maybe a couple hours) with this game and.... I love it so far. The ONLY thing I hate with a passion is the character models and portraits but other than that I am really impressed and quite happy with my purchase- I honestlly expected total shit after reading some of this thread but I think its pretty damn awesome so far.
Thats my first impression anyhow- I dont have time to really get into the game yet but im thinking I will be playing this alot over the coming holiday.
Thats my first impression anyhow- I dont have time to really get into the game yet but im thinking I will be playing this alot over the coming holiday.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
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- 17,068
She's tweeted a lot at Notch. She's definitely into him. Successful super-rich indie game dev like oh my gaerd.
He has completely ignored her, but I hear that works wonders with women.
- Joined
- May 29, 2010
- Messages
- 36,716
I'm guessing the two non-Nick programmers had to be paid, and the average salary for one looks like $50-80,000/year. They might take a bit less if they have a huge passion for games, but the bulk of the budget was likely spent on them. RPGs need crackerjack coders to be completed, look at Stones of Arnhem or all those other failed indie RPGs.
Perkel
Arcane
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- Mar 28, 2014
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- 16,261
It is called criticism best tool to weed out shit from good stuff. The more criticism you hear probably the more it is true to it.
Last thing you want to do is fight with criticism.
Especially since it is criticism targeted at bugs not game design.
If i buy a car that has faulty doors that sometimes work sometimes don't then i will write about it on forums and i will demand from producer fixing it or changing car for new one.
If i buy a dishwasher and it won't be cleaning dishes properly then i will write about it and demand return of my money.
List goes on. Games are not some special kind of good that should be treated differently and developers know well if their game is buggy or not.
And like i said last thing you want to do as developer or producer to fight with your community when you know fault is on your side objectively.
sqeecoo
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2006
- Messages
- 2,629
My two cents on the game:
The bug issues are overblown. Some of them are very visible and obvious, which makes the game seem amateurish - which it is. But there is nothing gamebreaking or even annoying gameplay-wise, just presentation-wise. I'd say way less buggy than a standard AAA title. It's just that the bugs are kinda in-your-face.
The story, atmosphere, and characters are very nice. I'd even say excellent. Worth buying just for that, and to support the development of games like this.
Still, the RPG elements make up relatively little of the gameplay, most of which is spent exploring locations. Locations are excellently done and interesting - dark (but not grimdark: most people are actually pretty nice) post-apocalypse done right and occasionally even spooky/scary. Combat mechanics are not very deep, but quite good. Fallout-level or better.
However, the balance is terrible. The game is just too easy, and its super simple to be swimming in supplies by the end of the first week. The first week is very tense and interesting, but looting quickly becomes more boring since you don't really need any of the stuff you are looting. And since looting and exploring is most of the gameplay, this is a problem - much more serious than the bugs.
However, its still fun, just way less than if there was actual challenge.
The RPG elements are also pretty easy - the right choice is usually fairly obvious if available (sometimes you simply have to pick who to antagonize, though). And even after taking in all the clearly crazy people, I'm having very little issues other than a murder or two (which no-one is too upset about due to us swimming in luxuries from the overly easy looting).
Lastly, I don't really care about if the developers are retarded, I like their game and I'm happy I bought it. At this point, I've played it more than AoD.
Summary:
Don't worry about the bugs, they are not a problem. The game is great, with an oldskool RPG vibe in combat and story, which are both quite good. However, balance is horrible, and the game quickly becomes way too easy.
Verdict:
Recommended.
The bug issues are overblown. Some of them are very visible and obvious, which makes the game seem amateurish - which it is. But there is nothing gamebreaking or even annoying gameplay-wise, just presentation-wise. I'd say way less buggy than a standard AAA title. It's just that the bugs are kinda in-your-face.
The story, atmosphere, and characters are very nice. I'd even say excellent. Worth buying just for that, and to support the development of games like this.
Still, the RPG elements make up relatively little of the gameplay, most of which is spent exploring locations. Locations are excellently done and interesting - dark (but not grimdark: most people are actually pretty nice) post-apocalypse done right and occasionally even spooky/scary. Combat mechanics are not very deep, but quite good. Fallout-level or better.
However, the balance is terrible. The game is just too easy, and its super simple to be swimming in supplies by the end of the first week. The first week is very tense and interesting, but looting quickly becomes more boring since you don't really need any of the stuff you are looting. And since looting and exploring is most of the gameplay, this is a problem - much more serious than the bugs.
However, its still fun, just way less than if there was actual challenge.
The RPG elements are also pretty easy - the right choice is usually fairly obvious if available (sometimes you simply have to pick who to antagonize, though). And even after taking in all the clearly crazy people, I'm having very little issues other than a murder or two (which no-one is too upset about due to us swimming in luxuries from the overly easy looting).
Lastly, I don't really care about if the developers are retarded, I like their game and I'm happy I bought it. At this point, I've played it more than AoD.
Summary:
Don't worry about the bugs, they are not a problem. The game is great, with an oldskool RPG vibe in combat and story, which are both quite good. However, balance is horrible, and the game quickly becomes way too easy.
Verdict:
Recommended.
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Sizzle
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2012
- Messages
- 2,473
I guess it could vary from player to player, but, like a couple of people already pointed out in this thread - a lot of the bugs are in the form of broken quest strings and missing content. Often, it's not really "game breakingly buggy", but rather jarring and irritating (especially when you've solved a quest, and the game (and NPC's) refuse to acknowledge it).
Agreed about the story and atmosphere, but I found the characters to be largely one-dimensional stereotypes (hard-ass trucker lady, bumbling deputy, slimy preacher, grizzled 'Nam veteran, gay soldier, black thief, etc.), though there where a couple of good ones. Too many of them, with too few interactions (both among themselves, and with the PC). They would have been a lot better with a couple of more events and dialogue that changes as the story progresses.
Disagree about the Fallout-level praise. Now, I don't think that Fallout's combat was anything particularly good, but it rarely felt boring, while DS's is usually a chore.
The gameplay definitely need an overhaul. Right now it's too easy to sneak around and one-hit zombies with a silent weapon (eliminating any danger of them swarming on you), or even completely eliminating their bite and claw attacks with armor you can easily get early. Not to mention how ridiculously easy it is to stock up on supplies and keep everybody happy.
I'd recommend it, too (and already have to a few friends), but I'd wait for a couple of weeks (maybe even months) until it's completely patched. I get the feeling that they left out quite a few things from the game, which they now plan to gradually get back in.
kris
Arcane
He wants people banned for calling him a baby? What a crybaby.
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