KickStarter Dead State: Reanimated

[Perkel]

Issue is not about state of DS but handling criticism.
Never argue with your critics when you are on lost position. Argue only when you have actually good position like game design.

I got called a baby many time and not one of those people recieved a ban. I would invite you to look at the post but it was deleted.

He wants people banned for calling him a baby? What a crybaby.

More like he called hypocrisy on DS mods.

 

[Lhynn]

Game is flawed, but a pretty impressive achievement nontheless. youd think codexers would be all over it, especially with people that are capable of loving arcanum, darklands or AP despite their flaws.

But codexers are going to codex i guess. 23 pages for a game that offers what dead state does. Shit, im getting butthurt just thinking about how little attention this game got. So i cant really fault them for acting stupidingly, It is brian and annies baby after all.

 

[Starwars]

Apparently, politics > good games.

 

[Shadowfang]

The course this thread has taken is really something.
I just regreat pre-ordering this game for each day that passes.
First if i wanted a steam-key to play the beta i had to let go my drm-copy, wtf?
Then on april there was that post on how they felt about piracy. Not a stance common with indies.
Now that i have the game i have barely touched it. I have to many things to play to force this one me.

 

[sqeecoo]

...

I actually completely agree with everything you said.

Don't get me wrong, by "good" and "recommended" I mean way better than most of the shit being churned out today, a nice game to play, and a project worth supporting. No more than that.

Regarding the comparison with Fallout, I completely agree that combat was more fun in Fallout, but that was because it was more meaningful and more challenging. In DS, it's boring because it's way too easy and a chore because it results only in more loot you don't really feel you need. But comparing the mechanics, I don't think that DS combat is any worse than FO, and maybe even a bit better just because you don't only control one character.

I certainly agree that the game would hugely benefit from more character interactions, sure.

 

[Lhynn]

As it is game needs more crisis in the game, a lot more conflict. i think ive said this before but it needs to be stressful and reinforce the themes that should be present in the setting, this would make the game a blast. I dont give a fuck about bringing some toilet paper to the shelter, these are things state of decay manages to do slightly better, and it makes it more engaging, despite that one being a blander game.

 

[Sizzle]

Don't get me wrong, by "good" and "recommended" I mean way better than most of the shit being churned out today, a nice game to play, and a project worth supporting. No more than that.

Yeah, I would definitely love to see more games like this. Don't really care about the "politics" of the guys behind it (though Annie's outburst certainly is... interesting. But, it's her opinion, she's entitled to it), don't regret buying it, and think it'll be something really good after a few more patches and thorough balancing.

Regarding the comparison with Fallout, I completely agree that combat was more fun in Fallout, but that was because it was more meaningful and more challenging. In DS, it's boring because it's way too easy and a chore because it results only in more loot you don't really feel you need. But comparing the mechanics, I don't think that DS combat is any worse than FO, and maybe even a bit better just because you don't only control one character.

I like the character mechanics, and think they're better than the ones in FO (though that's to be expected - here you're strictly limited to surviving, while in FO you had a lot more options on how to interact with a much wider world).

I certainly agree that the game would hugely benefit from more character interactions, sure.

The game needs to feel more urgent. The only time when I felt that sense of danger was in the very beginning, where I was scrambling to gather enough parts to rebuild the fence. After that it's gone, and, except for a couple of situations, never really returns. It would have been great if there was a lot more scheming and critical situations inside the shelter, too (characters who despise one another, and make you choose between them, and, even if you think you've managed to calm them down through dialogue skills, manage to flip out and murder one another... and perhaps some bystanders as well, etc.), so you could never feel completely safe there, either.

 

[Telengard]

Yet another survival RPG where you're supposed to overlook the lack of survival issues and weak RPG elements in order to concentrate on the story and character interactions. So, survival RPG without survival or RPG. *sigh*

And even if we support them, their next game has only a low chance of being an RPG. *double sigh*

At this stage, I'd rather buy a new book.

If they make a serious commitment to add at least some challenge to the game and fix all the systemic bugs in their underlying system design, okay then, I'll be right there purchasing. But I don't actually want more non-challenging character-interaction simulators. There's quite enough of those already, what with The Sims, endless numbers of FMV Adventures, and Bioware.

 

[Morkar Left]

Your tone can be nice as pie, but there is no ambivalence about the following statement: "I ask people to avoid this game until the game is finished and DoubleBear publicly apologies for its mistakes." Ergo. Don't buy the game until the company issues a public apology. Anyone who plays a game for 85 hours, and then demands a public apology to everyone who played the game, needs to be told to fuck off. It's the equivalent of a diner bitching about the quality of a meal, after having eaten it all, and then demanding that the business owner apologise to all the diners.

As to the piracy issued mentioned by other posters. While I'm all in favour of consumer rights, the pendulum has swung way too far in favour of consumers, to the point where they think it is there right to steal creative content. It's hilarious when posters cheer on piracy, but then get their panties in a wad about the quality of RPGs. When will these degenerates realise that electronic entertainment isn't some universal human right to be provided freely? It's a luxury that requires time, effort and creativity to produce. If a person doesn't want to pay, then they should find an alternative form of entertainment.

This. I have no problem with the guy being disappointed. But his passive-aggressively worded boycott and official apology demand, probably followed by a bad-mouthing crusade to enforce his demands, makes him look like either a complete egocentric ass or a stupid teenager.

Yet another survival RPG where you're supposed to overlook the lack of survival issues and weak RPG elements in order to concentrate on the story and character interactions. So, survival RPG without survival or RPG. *sigh*

And even if we support them, their next game has only a low chance of being an RPG. *double sigh*

At this stage, I'd rather buy a new book.

If they make a serious commitment to add at least some challenge to the game and fix all the systemic bugs in their underlying system design, okay then, I'll be right there purchasing. But I don't actually want more non-challenging character-interaction simulators. There's quite enough of those already, what with The Sims, endless numbers of FMV Adventures, and Bioware.

Have you even played the game?

 

[dryan]

Your tone can be nice as pie, but there is no ambivalence about the following statement: "I ask people to avoid this game until the game is finished and DoubleBear publicly apologies for its mistakes." Ergo. Don't buy the game until the company issues a public apology. Anyone who plays a game for 85 hours, and then demands a public apology to everyone who played the game, needs to be told to fuck off. It's the equivalent of a diner bitching about the quality of a meal, after having eaten it all, and then demanding that the business owner apologise to all the diners.

As to the piracy issued mentioned by other posters. While I'm all in favour of consumer rights, the pendulum has swung way too far in favour of consumers, to the point where they think it is there right to steal creative content. It's hilarious when posters cheer on piracy, but then get their panties in a wad about the quality of RPGs. When will these degenerates realise that electronic entertainment isn't some universal human right to be provided freely? It's a luxury that requires time, effort and creativity to produce. If a person doesn't want to pay, then they should find an alternative form of entertainment.

This. I have no problem with the guy being disappointed. But his passive-aggressively worded boycott and official apology demand, probably followed by a bad-mouthing crusade to enforce his demands, makes him look like either a complete egocentric ass or a stupid teenager.

And the devs response makes them look like what?

 

[Morkar Left]

dryan
Their responses are reasonable and understandable. But not very clever.

 

[dryan]

dryan
Their responses are reasonable and understandable. But not very clever.

I have to disagree. There's no situation where insulting a customer is reasonable or understandable.

 

[Morkar Left]

Neither is insulting developers.

 

[dryan]

Neither is insulting developers.

Actually, customers have no obligation. Content providers have to be held to a higher standard always. It's the customer that makes the provider's activity viable, after all.

 

[Davaris]

Both have the choice to treat each other as they like, but there will be consequences down the road. Its like a good RPG.

 

[Angthoron]

Neither is insulting developers.

Actually, customers have no obligation. Content providers have to be held to a higher standard always. It's the customer that makes the provider's activity viable, after all.

Yup. There might be a million times I want to tell people what I really think about 'em, but it's never a good idea. Especially with customers/stakeholders. Do that, get fucked for free, can't even blame anyone but yourself. Yeah, I agree, it's a very human thing to do, but if you're running a business, or are in a responsible position, you want to keep that human side in firm grasp. It's a sad fact but a fact nevertheless.

It's kinda even worse when done on the Internet - good luck wiping it off your record, one outburst and people can keep digging it up for decades. More than one outburst, and wow, you've really shot yourself in the foot, congrats.

Conversely, the customer can be any brand of retarded moron. He's paying you. He's buying your shit. You're not selling air to breathe, he can turn around and go buy someone else's shit. Someone yells and tosses tantrums? Yeah, he's probably a dumbfuck, but you're not EA, and even EA puts on a humble face when people throw online tantrums, so how's that for a hint. Look at Notch. Did he get rich by blaming pirates and causing twitter storms? Nope? Well then. Even that Gunpoint guy. He didn't have a KS campaign, not even Early access, and look at that fucker being happy about his sales of a game you can get DRM-free! People see good attitudes and get inspired by them, they're looking for entertainment and fun, after all. Well, some people look for drama and tears too, okay.

As for the game itself, no, it's not by any means bad. From what I've seen from my KS alpha access, it was shaping up rather nicely. I'll play it some time, naturally, I paid money for it, if nothing else, that's a pretty good reason.

 

[Black]

dryan
Their responses are reasonable and understandable. But not very clever.

I have to disagree. There's no situation where insulting a customer is reasonable or understandable.

Sounds like something one would read on Watch.

 

[Angthoron]

dryan
Their responses are reasonable and understandable. But not very clever.

I have to disagree. There's no situation where insulting a customer is reasonable or understandable.

Sounds like something one would read on Watch.

What, you mean you can find a business situation where that would make sense?

 

[Black]

VD called people morons and AoD still sold at least 3 copies.

 

[Jaesun]

True, but VD is.... tactful with his comments. He's very good at it.

 

[Angthoron]

VD called people morons and AoD still sold at least 3 copies.

Hm, you have a point there. Though I've not seen what he usually posts on ITS, and I kinda doubt he calls people morons on Steam forums, at least not openly so, and if you eviscerate a person with words without ever directly calling them anything bad, it's pretty much a free win, anyway. Sadly not what DB has been doing in their outbursts, hell, if they did a VD on everyone, I'd have a good laugh.

If you meant devs calling people dicks on Codex though, I guess I should make a remark that I hold Codex exempt, we're an Elysium for unarmed shit slinging I mean the more "casual-friendly" corners of the net.

 

[Davaris]

dryan
Their responses are reasonable and understandable. But not very clever.

I have to disagree. There's no situation where insulting a customer is reasonable or understandable.

Sounds like something one would read on Watch.

What, you mean you can find a business situation where that would make sense?

Some customers are not worth it. They can cost you money to do business with, or they go out of their way to destroy staff morale. So in that case you would fire that customer. Of course they will have a tantrum elsewhere on the net. Ways to reduce the chance of that, is to return their money and refer them to someone else.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Neither is insulting developers.

Actually, customers have no obligation. Content providers have to be held to a higher standard always. It's the customer that makes the provider's activity viable, after all.

go into a restaurant or fast food joint, be loud, obnoxious and slightly condescending or insulting about every minor issue, see what it gets you.
people are people, and nobody likes annoying fucks.

 

[Angthoron]

dryan
Their responses are reasonable and understandable. But not very clever.

I have to disagree. There's no situation where insulting a customer is reasonable or understandable.

Sounds like something one would read on Watch.

What, you mean you can find a business situation where that would make sense?

Some customers are not worth it. They can cost you money to do business with, or they go out of their way to destroy staff morale. So in that case you would fire that customer. Of course they will have a tantrum elsewhere on the net.

Well, of course. You don't want to serve your best smile to every piece of genetic garbage that happens to come your way, but you still have to shut them down "correctly", otherwise they just cost you more morale and reputation and attract more morons of the same type.

Ways to reduce the chance of that, is to return their money and refer them to someone else.

Yep, pretty much. Well, there's many ways to deal with a shitty customer, really, depending on their level of shitness and your level of patience/boredom, but in general, you want to do it with minimal harm to yourself/your business. Which's why DB outbursts aren't a very good idea, at least not in the places they're posted originally. Well, on the bright side, you can't invest your XPs into what you want, so they'll have to wise up from their experiences, anyway.

 

[Perkel]

Both have the choice to treat each other as they like, but there will be consequences down the road. Its like a good RPG.

Only one side actually feel consequences. Devs. So making war with customers is most idiotic thing you can do.

VD called people morons and AoD still sold at least 3 copies.

It is one of those "choose you words wisely"

You can say to someone you are fag and you know that someone will be not mad at you. You can argue with your fans, that is ok.
But when you trying to argue simple things like bugfixes then: