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KickStarter Dead State: Reanimated

Branm

Learned
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I can't believe they complained about budget issues. Anyone played Expedition: Conquistador? Way less of a budget to go on than Dead State from the Kickstarter, and they made a superior game in my opinion.

I also feel like the update that just released should've been how the game was shipped/released. Absolutely no reason for the game to have been so bug-ladden on release. If anything, they should've just waited another year.

Also, I'm not at all going to Kickstart or support on day one this company again. So, the little comment about it being difficult to justify making a sequel etc... good riddance.

ummm expedetion: Conquistador isnt really comparable to this game...just the amount of lines of text in this dwarfs that game. I'm still waiting to play my full game play through but I've put like 30 hours into it at early access and enjoyed myself a lot. Conquistadors was good as well but I dont think the two games are really comparable.

Besides....I'm pretty sure you know nothing of software development or even managing a project. Yes, its true they were probably over ambitious with the game but the after sale support redeems everything.

Honestly having retards like you saying "just wait a year" basically takes all your creditability away....Get a proper job rather than pushing burgers and we can talk. Seriously...Are you really so uneducated and dumb that you think a small start up company can just postpone income for a year???
 
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Mortmal

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I like conquistadores , dead state is a much bigger game on every aspect, not comparable, theres ton more work in this one .Sadden me this game is so underrated.
 

Barrow_Bug

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Game looks p. awful guys. Ugly ass animations and rubbish sound effects. But, given the Codex's love of systems over aesthetics I'm not surprised how much love it's getting.
 

Perkel

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Barrow_Bug

Cipher
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Game looks p. awful guys. Ugly ass animations and rubbish sound effects. But, given the Codex's love of systems over aesthetics I'm not surprised how much love it's getting.

Go play Crysis faggot

Is it any good? I hear that the robot man in it can produce knives from his hands. Just like you, as you're so fucking edgy and all.

Maximum butthurt.

How droll, NewFag.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
is there any eta on the hardcore difficulty/rebalance patch yet?


Quick Progress Update
Hi everyone,

I know many of you are looking forward to the upcoming update, so I wanted to let you know how we're doing! We're tantalizingly close, but not quite there yet - we're wrapping up final testing and fixes and making sure that the huge number of new things in this build all play together nicely.

We're hoping to wrap things up in the next few days, if the fates favor us - just keep in mind, that time window is an estimate and if something urgent comes up, we may push the release out a bit more. We want that giant update to be the best giant update it can be!

Keep checking this space so you can be the first to know when the update goes live. In the meantime, I suggest you stock up on food and energy drinks, because you're going to want to start a brand new playthrough when you see the update - and you're not going to want to stop!
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
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I'm surprised it didn't end up taking an entire additional year like it did Larian and inXile, though I suppose they want to finish this asap so they can work on something that will actually have a chance of making money.
 
Joined
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The new update features new areas, improved AI, rebalanced armor and weapons, PC Infection, hardcore mode and a lot more.
But what's the status of the ending? What we have right now feels rather abrupt and really not connected to various clues and hints scattered thru the game which imply come big conspiracy on the one hand, and the possibility of developing a cure on the other.
 

34scell

Augur
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
384
The new update features new areas, improved AI, rebalanced armor and weapons, PC Infection, hardcore mode and a lot more.
But what's the status of the ending? What we have right now feels rather abrupt and really not connected to various clues and hints scattered thru the game which imply come big conspiracy on the one hand, and the possibility of developing a cure on the other.

I don't think your handful of apocalypse commandos stuck in Texas are likely to unravel an international conspiracy/discover a cure, but some kind of summary of what happens afterwards to the characters and factions would be good.
 

Roguey

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But what's the status of the ending? What we have right now feels rather abrupt and really not connected to various clues and hints scattered thru the game which imply come big conspiracy on the one hand, and the possibility of developing a cure on the other.

Annie confirmed that she fucked up with the cure plotline and they'll never restore it.

Annie said:
As Parisa's writer and original concepter, I wanted to explain a little about how I ended up handling her character and the associated "Cure" plotline with this update, so I wrote up the bulleted list that was featured. The list was meant to give a sort of "behind the scenes" look not only about what we wanted from that plotline, but why we decided not to pursue it. It was by no means meant to be a list of excuses or reasons to make us give up, but a view inside our development approach. Yes, there were things we had to triage simply because we didn't have the funding (because money = time and staff), but I'd honestly like to stress that the key reason we decided not to pursue the "cure" was not chiefly because of that. Honestly speaking, as someone who came up with it - and did fight for it for quite a while - as the game progressed, it seemed less and less like it fit with our feel for the project. When it got to the point where I found I was more worried about what to do with Parisa's character than what the "cure" would mean for the game and the world it was in, I honestly reevaluated the mechanic and found it was something I didn't feel fit anymore either.

To those of you who really feel contrary to that - that the "cure" needed to be in and we robbed you of a potentially positive storyline - I'm sorry you feel that way, and I'm sorry if you feel like we shorted you somehow. That was obviously in no way our intention. And if you wanna blame someone about it not being in the game, guys, this one's on me, because in the end I looked at what it gave to the game as a whole and I felt like it did more undermining than building, and I let it go, and it felt more honest to do that than keep it in. Trust me, I fight like hell for my features, and as the driving force behind this one the only thing that made me stop was ME. The bulleted list was my own want to talk to everyone about it.

If in the end you really want to believe there's a cure out there, and your team makes it happen - I'd never dream of stopping you. As an actual mechanic in Dead State, I'm afraid a cure doesn't and won't ever exist - and that's a call we're making thematically, not just mechanically. It was never a point that the game had been building to. And while it might seem pretty damn bleak that there's no fix or answer, we'd prefer to think that it's just a harder question of how people will get by - and like to think they'll make it work.
...
What I really wanted to pull out of Parisa's character was that she's obsessive - but not, say, on the level where she's beyond all hope. She reaches a point where she has to break it to herself that things aren't possible - and I wanted to give the player a choice to let her keep studying things, or to find a new path for her life. Mechanically speaking I aimed to also offer this to players who wanted to get some more people who were potentially useful in the field, versus those who wanted to keep her as Science-focused... and thematically, what people were willing to do with someone who essentially let them down.

On a personal note - I know several scientists (among them a neurochemist and a microbiologist), and I've known people with terminal or lifelong illnesses. The more I thought about Parisa ACTUALLY curing the disease, versus real-world efforts on diseases that have so much research and information on them and the fact that THOSE aren't cured... it felt less real and more hokey to me. Like, it's entirely reasonable for Parisa to be obsessed enough to actually think she could do it, but what's more honest and exciting as a writer and a designer is to see what people do when she fails.

MECHANICALLY speaking, though, if it's still pretty unclear that she'll ever find it - I tried to imply that she'd be studying the illness but knows she can't really find a cure ("...when I have time... I'll keep going with my research. Maybe just knowing a bit more about our viral enemy will make it easier to deal with.") - but if the general feel from folks is that things are too vague, that's my bad as a writer and I'll try to tweak it to make things a little more apparent.

Brian said:
The zombie genre is exceptionally bleak. The most common ending in the genre is that the protagonist lives to see another day. None of the most influential movies and stories from the genre end with a cure - best case with some of them is that eventually the zombie threat is minimized and some semblance of society is restored. Our antibiotic mechanic is already closer to a "survival cheat" than most stories get. The "cure" was never meant to be an ending, it doesn't fit with the genre, and it would be even more contrived to suggest that a hacked together lab in a high school would have the resources to perfect a cure for a pathogen that not even the world's top scientists can seem to identify.

Additionally, there are several endings in the game and If you can keep a significant amount of people alive in the end, that is a huge win in the zombie genre.
 

Grauken

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Annie said:
If in the end you really want to believe there's a cure out there, and your team makes it happen - I'd never dream of stopping you. As an actual mechanic in Dead State, I'm afraid a cure doesn't and won't ever exist - and that's a call we're making thematically, not just mechanically. It was never a point that the game had been building to. ..

She learned well from the Mass Effect 3 designers. Making a thematic call might be just the future shorthand for, we fucked up
 

Ovplain

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Don't give much a shit about the ending myself, just hope I can reach it the next time I play the game.:S Really hope this update fixes the 'post-beginning game', makes it way less boring than it was. The 'hardcore mode' should do that, surely.:S
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The new update features new areas, improved AI, rebalanced armor and weapons, PC Infection, hardcore mode and a lot more.
But what's the status of the ending? What we have right now feels rather abrupt and really not connected to various clues and hints scattered thru the game which imply come big conspiracy on the one hand, and the possibility of developing a cure on the other.
Roguey already gave the pertinent Brian quote, but he never, ever intended this to be a game in which you save the world and wrap everything up with a neat little bow. Go watch Night of the Living Dead.
 
Joined
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The new update features new areas, improved AI, rebalanced armor and weapons, PC Infection, hardcore mode and a lot more.
But what's the status of the ending? What we have right now feels rather abrupt and really not connected to various clues and hints scattered thru the game which imply come big conspiracy on the one hand, and the possibility of developing a cure on the other.
Roguey already gave the pertinent Brian quote, but he never, ever intended this to be a game in which you save the world and wrap everything up with a neat little bow. Go watch Night of the Living Dead.
:roll: Get off your high horse. Maybe he hasn't intended it, but I'm not talking about a ~muh happy ending~, I'm talking about existing pointers in those lore bits and such. They suggest more intricate conspiracy that we actually got in the game. Also ending was rather abrupt and it really seemed that their money run out and they were forced to end the game somehow, cutting corners and content with it.
 

Zombra

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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm not talking about a ~muh happy ending~, I'm talking about existing pointers in those lore bits and such. They suggest more intricate conspiracy that we actually got in the game.
Yes. These are called "loose ends". They are intentional. You are not supposed to get the whole picture and solve the case, or meet every character mentioned in every email. Wrong genre. Also remember that the data points are mostly color backer content, never intended to be the main story of the game. (I think they make a nice background.)

Also ending was rather abrupt and it really seemed that their money run out and they were forced to end the game somehow, cutting corners and content with it.
There's a definite shift at the end, but think about the alternative. The whole game is about building a secure, self-sustaining shelter with no problems. If you don't deviate from that path, the logical conclusion is ... you keep hanging out there until you all die of old age.
The game is long enough at three months, it doesn't need to go on for another 60 years.
At first, managing the shelter is a challenge, but soon becomes routine. A sudden twist that breaks that routine is both good for player interest and beautifully in keeping with the uncertainty of the genre.

And the game has plenty of content - the only thing they screwed up in that regard was all the hints for finding a cure with the various scientist characters (not just Parisa). They broadcasted that it was something the player should try to work towards, but then didn't script being able to do it. They either need to remove the broadcasting or add the scripting. It's possible that that was unfinished due to a rushed release date, but has nothing to do with the ending(s) we got.
 
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Joined
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Yes. These are called "loose ends". They are intentional. You are not supposed to get the whole picture and solve the case, or meet every character mentioned in every email. Wrong genre. Also remember that the data points are mostly color backer content, never intended to be the main story of the game. (I think they make a nice background.)
Loose ends almost always are unintentional, if we're not talking about "open ending" (which is hard to pull off too), or they are sequel fodder. I kinda doubt that Dead State would get the sequel, and I really doubt that those "loose ends" were creative choice, and not appeared because of sloppiness, time constraints and lack of funds.

There's a definite shift at the end, but think about the alternative. The whole game is about building a secure, self-sustaining shelter with no problems. If you don't deviate from that path, the logical conclusion is ... you keep hanging out there until you all die of old age.
Are you saying that they could use only that one external crisis which they pulled at the end, or no crises at all? That's just bizarre. They could write any crisis, be it internal or external, but what they used is only two steps removed from time-honed ending "ROCK FALLS, EVERYBODY DIE".

The game is long enough at three months, it doesn't need to go on for another 60 years.
At first, managing the shelter is a challenge, but soon becomes routine. A sudden twist that breaks that routine is both good for player interest and beautifully in keeping with the uncertainty of the genre.

And the game has plenty of content - the only thing they screwed up in that regard was all the hints for finding a cure with the various scientist characters (not just Parisa). They broadcasted that it was something the player should try to work towards, but then didn't script being able to do it. They either need to remove the broadcasting or add the scripting. It's possible that that was unfinished due to a rushed release date, but has nothing to do with the ending(s) we got.

Yep, but that's not due to availability (or lack of it) of the cure, it's because the game is imbalanced and, well, all that stuff that countless other players noted (imba-armor, imbalanced difficulty curve, when resources becoming way too frequent in the later part, but challenge doesn't scale to them, crises which are too easily resolved and so on).

As for plenty of content - in the first third of the game I agree, it has plenty of content, but they haven't used "roadblocks" (high-powered enemies, lack of transportation, etc) which would have prevented players from reaching most nodes way too early. Their time requirement for returning to shelter sorta kinda works at first, but when player builds his car, it becomes too easy to circumvent it. Same balance issue as with combat armor, really. Also in the first half of your post you're talking about intentional "loose ends", and in the later part you're saying that it's possible that that was unfinished due to time constrains. Huh. Anyway, I disagree that botched cure storyline «has nothing to do with the ending(s) we got», because it was just dropped, but if they played their cards right that story may have not resulted in certain cure, but could have been a source of various narrative hooks (it could work but be worse then disease, or it could work but leave patients a "Typhoid Mary", or just rumors about a cure being in your hands could lead to any sort of conflicts with other groups of survivors, military and other organizations).

What bugs me the most in Dead State is that game is really ambitious and has a ton of potential - but last third of the game kills almost all enjoyment from it, and its narrative first stagnates, and then falls apart in the end.
 
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Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I really doubt that those "loose ends" were creative choice, and not appeared because of sloppiness, time constraints and lack of funds.
I guess we're just not going to see eye to eye on this. Some people are used to games where they are the world hero, and no conflict is ever mentioned but that they personally take care of it, no mystery but that they solve it, no shadow but that they shine a bright light into it. It's understandable because most games work that way, but I'll say it one last time and then hopefully drop it: that's just not how the genre works.

Are you saying that they could use only that one external crisis which they pulled at the end, or no crises at all? That's just bizarre. They could write any crisis, be it internal or external, but what they used is only two steps removed from time-honed ending "ROCK FALLS, EVERYBODY DIE".
Of course not. They could have written a million different endings. It doesn't make the one they chose a mistake that needs to be fixed. If you don't like the writing, OK, but the implication is that you think they were building to a big conspiracy ending requiring a series of investigation missions culminating in a final boss fight at the White House, and then time constraints stopped them from doing that. This is not the case.

This means that your expectation that they will go back and fix it is not only not going to happen, it was never on the table in the first place (nor should it have been).

Yep, but that's not due to availability (or lack of it) of the cure, it's because the game is imbalanced and, well, all that stuff that countless other players noted (imba-armor, imbalanced difficulty curve, when resources becoming way too frequent in the later part, but challenge doesn't scale to them, crises which are too easily resolved and so on).
Not sure what you mean. What is the "that" in your first sentence? The fact that the game is bordering on too long already? I agree with all that.

Honestly I would have been fine with it if the cure ending had been put in (it would have been hokey, but fun) - what I object to is that the devs implied that path in the writing but didn't back it up in the scripting. They need to either add the scripting or purge the writing.

As for plenty of content - in the first third of the game I agree, it has plenty of content, but they haven't used "roadblocks" (high-powered enemies, lack of transportation, etc) which would have prevented players from reaching most nodes way too early.
Well - okay. It would be great if the game had 10x as much content, not gonna argue with you on that. But I still don't see a case for the ending we got being particularly rushed or problematic. Had to end somewhere.

Also in the first half of your post you're talking about intentional "loose ends", and in the later part you're saying that it's possible that that was unfinished due to time constrains. Huh.
I'll explain it again. The "cure" storyline has deliberate and overt gameplay flags in place such as one scientist describing in detail the exact ingredients you would need to collect for him to develop a cure. But no job appears on the Job Board and collecting those ingredients does nothing. This is a clear and obvious case in which intention and reality did not coincide. However when I found a data point and read an email about something happening at the CDC, to me that did not imply a quest to drive 900 miles to CDC headquarters in Atlanta and root out the mystery there. In other words, I can tell the difference between worldbuilding and gameplay. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me the difference is obvious.

Anyway, I disagree that botched cure storyline «has nothing to do with the ending(s) we got», because it was just dropped, but if they played their cards right that story may have not resulted in certain cure, but could have been a source of various narrative hooks (it could work but be worse then disease, or it could work but leave patients a "Typhoid Mary", or just rumors about a cure being in your hands could lead to any sort of conflicts with other groups of survivors, military and other organizations).
Sure. Like I said, they could have written a million endings, but the fact that you don't like the ending doesn't make it wrong somehow, and again, it is better in keeping with the genre than the "gamey" endings of trouncing the conspiracy with your combat party of 4 characters and synthesizing a cure for a national epidemic in your garage.
 

Saduj

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Will update to be compatible with existing saves? On day 64 and I think I've found every location. I know there will be additional crisis events but other than that there doesn't seem much to do.
 

Elhoim

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The update should be compatible with existing savegames.

Regarding the endings, the nuclear plant meltdown and escape from the shelter were planned from Day 1.

Also, what Annie said it's the whole truth. At the very beginning of development, there was going to be a "cure", which was going to be a way to remove the infection from a character. When I first read it in the design document in 2009, I thought it was silly as hell that you could develop a cure in the school in a few weeks, and also felt that from a mechanics standpoint it was "have your cake and eat it too". Like "Oh, my favorite character got infected, I want to save him/her!". If a character gets infected, deal with it, and put a bullet in their brains. Maybe I'm a bit too hardcore due to my AoD experience, but I didn't like how it felt thematically and mechanically.

There was some scripting implementation on dialogue's, but as Annie said, she finally saw that it didn't fit the theme of the game and decided not to implemented. Our main error was that the scripting was left unchanged.

It was never supposed to be an "ending", just a way to remove infection from characters.
 
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Zombra: Finding obvious unfinished storyline != wanting eternal happy end with sunshine and happiness included, y'know. Oh well, do carry on.

Also, what Annie said it's the whole truth. At the very beginning of development, there was going to be a "cure", which was going to be a way to remove the infection from a character. When I first read it in the design document in 2009, I thought it was silly as hell that you could develop a cure in the school in a few weeks, and also felt that from a mechanics standpoint it was "have your cake and eat it too". Like "Oh, my favorite character got infected, I want to save him/her!". If a character gets infected, deal with it, and put a bullet in their brains. Maybe I'm a bit too hardcore due to my AoD experience, but I didn't like how it felt thematically and mechanically.
Well, there's no need to clarify, really, Roguey's quotes already done this.

Mate, thanks for your hard work, I already praised what Dead State has achieved, even with bugs and somewhat difficult to port Torque. My two main complaints wasn't about the existence or lack of happy ending, it was about a) balance, and b) loose plot ends. But it doesn't make me into someone who only wants ~happy ending~, thank you very much. Dead State isn't the only zombie survival game which exists, as you well know. Most of non-AAA titles about zombie apocalypse also tried to convey bleak atmosphere, with various degree of success - be it Cataclysm:DDA, Project Zomboid, and even Zafehouse Diaries in some aspects. Being a fan of post-apocalypse genre in general, seeing many apoc-themed movies, and playing most survival games (though I admit, I always preferred nuclear and other technological apocalypse scenarios to contagion ones), I kinda know that both apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction isn't big on happy endings, thank you again . It's just I think that if some storyline was being scrapped, then writers should do more through job of cleaning all reminders of said plotline from the game, that's all.
 

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