Game News DEMIURGOS, an alternate history RPG-adventure set in a modern Ancient Greece, now on Kickstarter

[Daniel Bill]

In the dictionary I found Libertarian and Liberalist as translations for Liberalist in german. Could you explain the difference for me? I think its some old - new world misunderstanding.

As a native English speaker I don't recognise 'liberalist' as being a common word. I'd read it as 'liberal supporter' as in one who supports the ideology of liberalism. A stronger sense than someone who is just a liberal.
Libertarian is not the same as liberal or liberalist. It's more a sense of allowing individual rights and a balance between my rights and your rights with a sense of personal responsibility taking preference. For example, my rights are as valuable as your rights and do not take priority. Likewise the other way around.

But "a sense of allowing individual rights and a balance between my rights and your rights with a sense of personal responsibility taking preference" sounds a bit like german term Liberalismus (Liberalism) for me.
How would you define Libaralism then. Whats the significant difference?

 

[Bumvelcrow]

How would you define Libaralism then. Whats the significant difference?

Ah, good question. The whole sense of liberalism has been twisted lately. I used to be a liberal (supporting the Liberal Democrat party here in the UK) and so for me the word 'liberal' has more party associations than libertarianism. From my (lapsed political) perspective I'd use libertarianism to refer to the goal of personal responsibility and personal rights, and liberalism as a political goals of the left wing, which has a certain amount of baggage.

 

[Wayward Son]

Ah, good question. The whole sense of liberalism has been twisted lately. I used to be a liberal (supporting the Liberal Democrat party here in the UK) and so for me the word 'liberal' has more party associations than libertarianism. From my (lapsed political) perspective I'd use libertarianism to refer to the goal of personal responsibility and personal rights, and liberalism as a political goals of the left wing, which has a certain amount of baggage.

That's how I'd describe it for here in the Kwan as well.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I'm a libertarian - come at me bros!

All with the -ist ending, referencing that it is more a ideologic view and not just an opinion. Obviously this is different in other languages.
In the dictionary I found Libertarian and Liberalist as translations for Liberalist in german. Could you explain the difference for me? I think its some old - new world misunderstanding.

I think it's an anglophone thing. Outside of America and to a lesser extent the UK, the word liberalism has retained its original meaning. Classical or 19th century liberalism is very close to modern libertarianism; it's all about free markets and limited government. But in the U.S. liberal came to mean left-wing. An American liberal is more like a European social democrat. You might want to make it "classical liberalist" for clarity, although that sounds a lot less catchy.

 

[Daniel Bill]

Very interesting.
I think if the campaign is successfull we must have a thread where we can discuss difficult terms like this one.
Terminology is too important for the game as that anything can stay unclear.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

In the dictionary I found Libertarian and Liberalist as translations for Liberalist in german. Could you explain the difference for me? I think its some old - new world misunderstanding.

"Liberalist" isn't a word used in English (at least not either British or American English), and the closest equivalent in American English would "classical liberal", which itself is not in common usage and is subject to debate.

In American English, the term "liberal" was removed from its original usage in the 1930s, to instead refer to the New Deal policies of the Franklin Roosevelt administration. Since then, "liberal" became synonymous with the policies advocated by the Democratic Party over the decades, under the influence of the Progressive ideology, very far removed from what Americans sometimes refer to as "classical liberalism".

In British English, the term "liberal" became connected with the Liberal Party organized from the Whigs in the 1830s, and more recently has been connected with the policies advanced by the Liberal Democratic Party.

The term "libertarian" in American English refers to an ideology descended from "classical liberalism", but libertarians tend to be more strident and doctrinaire, and in any case libertarianism remains a fringe ideology in the United States, not comparable to the zenith of "classical liberalism".

 

[Timeslip]

Good to see you gaining some ground. Just gave Demiurgos a mention in a Kickstarter update for Vigilantes, hope it helps some.

 

[Daniel Bill]

Good to see you gaining some ground. Just gave Demiurgos a mention in a Kickstarter update for Vigilantes, hope it helps some.

Hey thank you very very much!
Today? Dont know what happend yesterday tbh but it was our most successful day of the campaign. Maybe there is still hope? Or just the gods trying to play games with our feelings : D

 

[Timeslip]

You're welcome. I'd really like to play your game. It was just a few hours ago. There's still hope. It really does look like an impressive game, one that should be getting coverage. Sheer volume of games aside, I think part of the problem relatively new developers like us face is that many press outlets won't cover our Kickstarters because we don't have enough games under our belt, hence a lesser guarantee of completion. Their readers in turn may see the outlet covering it as a recommendation to back, which may some back to bite them if it doesn't work out. Many press sites state no contact on Kickstarter.

 

[Daniel Bill]

I think part of the problem relatively new developers like us face is that many press outlets won't cover our Kickstarters because we don't have enough games under our belt, hence a lesser guarantee of completion. Their readers in turn may see the outlet covering it as a recommendation to back, which may some back to bite them if it doesn't work out. Many press sites state no contact on Kickstarter.

Thats exactly the lesson I learned from the campaign so far. I may be biased, but I think that this really is a mistake of the large gaming websites. I didn't even hear of your game for example.
I know that there is a ton of bad "indie developers", but I think it is also the responsibility of the media to give people a platform who are newcomers and not only the mostly uninnovative and boring AAA industry - I think there also is a certain demand for this.
In most cases their journalists only report after people already gained attention and respect, as if they wouldn't be able to distinguish report worthy products themself.

 

[JarlFrank]

Only worthwhile game news site is the Codex, everything else is shit.

This is a known fact.

 

[Timeslip]

@Daniel - I agree they could be doing more. At the same time, I get why most of the big ones won't cover small projects... guess the larger a press site becomes, the more business like it must become in its practices. If most of their income comes from ad revenue, they are going to cover subjects they are going to get clicks on - unfortunately, a similar tendency exists in a lot of online game retailers too, so it's a hell of a fight for the small studio.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Protip: the game's map (as seen at about 3:40 of the alpha video) is an inverted map of Greece.

Backed it faster than you can say "total economic collapse".

A Greek themed game failing at financing? Larping to the extreme.

 

[vivec]

It's going to fail on kickstarter.

 

[Prime Junta]

A Greek themed game failing at financing? Larping to the extreme.

Throw in a U-boat and a couple of Mercs and I'm sure the Germans will lend them the dosh.

 

[MicoSelva]

It's going to fail on kickstarter.

Indeed, it failed, which is unfortunate. Hopefully Daniel Bill can run another Kickstarter in a few months, with more success.