Review Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Launch Trailer and Reviews

[ZagorTeNej]

It doesn't excel at anything but it has a better character and combat systems as well as the side quests (i.e. 90% of quests in a sandbox game) than Oblivion, Gothic, Morrowind, Two Worlds, Skyrim, Fallout 4, etc. It doesn't make it a great game or a good RPG. It makes it an RPG you can play. In comparison, I couldn't play Fallout 4.

I found the combat pretty bad in Fallout 3 (clunky movement, almost no recoil, no hit feedback etc.) even without taking into account VATS which is basically a cheat code. Character systems are usually not that relevant in Bethesda games (you end up as a master of everything anyway) though I guess even this bastardized version of Fallout system offers some variety of builds.

Some sidequests I've seen have multiple choices and skill checks but a lot of it is dragged down by very bad (even for video game standards), juvenile writing.

If the systems are utter and irredeemable shit, no quest design would make the game playable.

What I liked about FNV was quest design, C&C, faction play, writing and music and that was enough to carry me through the game. I didn't really like anything it inherited from Fallout 3 (engine, combat, character creation system etc.)

I don't know what exploration focused Arpg means exactly. I know I've enjoyed exploring all 3 Gothic games but I didn't enjoy grinding at all. I'd say the Gothic games had a lot more action than exploration and their combat systems were always the weakest aspect despite being the main activity.

I'd say it means a large portion of the game is open to be explored right from the start (or even after a short linear tutorial). I enjoyed combat in first two Gothics (not the third one), it's not the most complex system but it worked for those games, I like the advancement system that made your character actually handle weapon better (instead of just getting a damage boost as is usually the case) and how you had to be vary of facing multiple opponents because they'll gang up on you. It can't measure up against highly specialized games like Dark Souls but I prefer it to most other aRPGs.

I didn't say Gothic clones. I said that when Gothic was released that whole "3 camps to choose from, each camp has its own quests" was a novelty. Few games offered factions and fewer still offered mutually exclusive factions. Now it's no longer a novelty.

Was Risen a worse game than Gothic? I don't think so. The Codex review says:

I’m aware some people might hate Risen after chapter two, some will probably hate it completely, but I must say that I really had a splendid time with this game, with all three playthroughs being somehow different and exciting, despite some of the shortcomings.

And in the end, the question still stands: is Risen a worthy spiritual successor to the Gothic series? Hell yes, if you want another injection of Gothic, Risen is definitely what you’re looking for, since it’s the same formula, but in a new engine, some new ideas and a lot of improvements. If you never liked any game from Piranha Bytes, though, you should avoid it like the plague, because there’s nothing new that would make you enjoy it.​

Yet whereas Gothic took the gaming world by storm by offering something new, Risen barely made a splash because the setup was old and the gameplay to support it wasn't there, much like it wasn't there in Gothic.

Did Gothic ever really made a splash for today's industry standards? PB games never had the mass appeal of Bethesda (since Morrowind). Never really cared much for novelty anyway, I either like a design decision or I don't, whether it's old or new is largely irrelevant. Regardless, I liked first Risen very much (It's one of the very few RPGs that came out in the last decade or so that I enjoyed, I replayed it quite a few times) and it's up there with the first two Gothics as far as I'm concerned (worse in some things, better in others). Risen 2 and 3 though, a different matter entirely.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

Yeah, I agree, but I think the intangibles go even further than that. One of my problems with the Eidos incarnation is that it takes itself way too seriously too often. Deus Ex is at its heart a B-Movie with a wacky plot made up of a bunch of kooky conspiracy theories. And on the technological side, nearly all modern games have a tendency to get in their own way. You can't have genuinely emergent gameplay when everything is so over-produced and railroaded. Having sticky cover, "helpful" popups every three seconds, e.g., Press X to Climb, and crap like that doesn't help. Of course, it's not all the fault of developers. The reality is that there are many, many "gamers" who really don't want games but just want the electronic equivalent of this

And not only that, the B movie side feel was obscured by the complete freedom 90s games gave you, on the level of Thief and System Shock, very few games try to make a fucking tutorial level like Liberty Island, its an amazing map. And later ones get even crazier.
And has I said the writing was to the point. The great soundtrack also helped.

What I wanted to say is that on a game, the gameplay can obscure and elevate a pretty simple story.

 

[Ash]

FO3 was released right in the middle of the steepest decline: Oblivion, Bioshock, Fable 2, Gothic 3, Dark Messiah, Mass effect...lots of trashy popamole "RPGs".

Codex nightmare scenario: Desert island. You can take one game, only from the list of aforementioned shit. Which popamole would you choose? I'd have to pick FO3, warts and all: the god awful intro, shitty combat, typical bethesda shortcomings (copy/paste world design, flawed systems, shit writing), tunnel snakes, annoying unkillable children, the really exaggeratedly drab green aesthetic of the world, and VATS.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

FO3 was released right in the middle of the steepest decline: Oblivion, Bioshock, Fable 2, Gothic 3, Dark Messiah, Mass effect...lots of trashy popamole "RPGs".

Codex nightmare scenario: Desert island. You can take one game, only from the list of aforementioned shit. Which popamole would you choose? I'd have to pick FO3, warts and all: the god awful intro, shitty combat, typical bethesda shortcomings (copy/paste world design, flawed systems, shit writing), tunnel snakes, annoying unkillable children, the really exaggeratedly drab green aesthetic of the world, and VATS.

Dark Messiah is amazing man. And its not an rpg. I would probably go Oblivion.

 

[Ash]

It probably doesn't deserve to be lumped in with those games, taking it on its own merits it is good for what it is, but if you consider that this was a spiritual successor of sorts to Arx Fatalis (originally intended to be a sequel until Ubisoft had their way), then it is pure decline.

"I would probably go Oblivion."

You can't say that and not give reasoning, unless you want to face the wrath of the 'dex. I'm open to your opinion, but why? Replay potential is higher than most the others, that's a reason I'd pick FO3 too.

 

[Cynicus]

 

[Crescent Hawk]

It probably doesn't deserve to be lumped in with those games, taking it on its own merits it is good for what it is, but if you consider that this was a spiritual successor of sorts to Arx Fatalis (originally intended to be a sequel until Ubisoft had their way), then it is pure decline.

"I would probably go Oblivion."

You can't say that and not give reasoning, unless you want to face the wrath of the 'dex. I'm open to your opinion, but why? Replay potential is higher than most the others, that's a reason I'd pick FO3 too.

No Oblivion is still shit. I just simply prefer generic fantasy of the TES kind instead of the attempt at the world of Fallout F3 was.

 

[Ash]

No Oblivion is still shit. I just simply prefer generic fantasy of the TES kind instead of the attempt at the world of Fallout F3 was.

Fair enough. Oblivion does have a nice soundtrack though, I doubt anyone would dispute that.

I guess this would be the most sensible option, even if there is some hope you may be rescued.

 

[Space Insect]

There are Jeff Vogel games to tide you through that hideous decline though.

 

[J_C]

Yet these aren't the only key aspects.

And what key aspects of sandbox/open-ended ARPG Fallout 3 excels at (or hell, is even adequate)? Cause remembering my terrible (though admitingly not that long) experience with I can't really come up with anything that makes it compare favourably to other aRPGs (well maybe Oblivion I guess? Depends on whether you prefer guns or swords, mutants or orcs, it's like a palette switch basically).

It doesn't excel at anything but it has a better character and combat systems as well as the side quests (i.e. 90% of quests in a sandbox game) than Oblivion, Gothic, Morrowind, Two Worlds, Skyrim, Fallout 4, etc. It doesn't make it a great game or a good RPG. It makes it an RPG you can play. In comparison, I couldn't play Fallout 4.

Wow. Just wow. Are you trolling us now VD?

Another example of although VD being a good designer, his opinion doesn't worth more than the average troll's on the Codex.

And another good review, by Jim Sterling. 9/10
http://www.thejimquisition.com/deus-ex-mankind-divided-review/

Even with a somewhat disappointing final furlong, one can’t help but be satisfied by what Mankind Divided has to offer. A solid story that manages to keep its more ridiculous elements in surprising check, tons of gameplay options with hours of optional material, and the simple satisfaction that comes with being a mechanical metahuman, the latest Deus Ex is possibly the most accomplished in the series, despite not being as complete as it seems it should’ve been.
At its very worst, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided is just as good as Human Revolution, which is really not a problem if you think Human Revolution was absolutely bloody marvelous.

 

[Ash]

"the latest Deus Ex is possibly the most accomplished in the series"

Opinion disregarded.

It's popamole people, lets not forget, for fuck sake. You know, third person cover, regen health, a straight-up health bar, simplified RPG systems, across the room highlighting, awesome button takedowns, OP augs, praxis and other resources thrown at you in regular intervals till you have every relevant aug, microtransactions, objective markers and a lack of fucks given for the concept of what is an Immersive Sim...and seemingly absolutely none of this is changed in MD. Now, we have Breach, generic crafting (of extremely OP shit to boot), and dishonored-tier augs.

Motherfuckers have absolutely no standards these days. Popamole cannot be more accomplished than one of the most prestigious Immersive Sims ever created. It just can't by default.

And then he goes on to say: "...despite not being as complete as it seems it should’ve been."

 

[Tito Anic]

FO3 was released right in the middle of the steepest decline: Oblivion, Bioshock, Fable 2, Gothic 3, Dark Messiah, Mass effect...lots of trashy popamole "RPGs".

Codex nightmare scenario: Desert island. You can take one game, only from the list of aforementioned shit. Which popamole would you choose? I'd have to pick FO3, warts and all: the god awful intro, shitty combat, typical bethesda shortcomings (copy/paste world design, flawed systems, shit writing), tunnel snakes, annoying unkillable children, the really exaggeratedly drab green aesthetic of the world, and VATS.

I would take Gothic 3, learn to program, fix game crashings and will have one of the best openworld rpg's... and will look at guys who are degenerating while playing Bethesda trash

 

[Ash]

Yeah, I was walking on thin ice when I added G3, at it is the only RPG there I haven't played, but I heard it was decline and the general consensus seems to be to steer clear, yet it seems that's mostly because of bugs. Have modders not fixed/reverse engineered it if no source?

 

[Tito Anic]

Have modders not fixed/reverse engineered it if no source?

Yes, they did.

Because there wasn't any hope for an official patch anymore, the fans started to free Gothic 3 from bugs. The first community patch was released quickly, many other followed, later even in cooperation with Spellbound Entertainment. The resulting version 1.6 was released in the beginning of 2008 and even sold as Gothic 3 Gold Edition.

 

[Kev Inkline]

FO3 was released right in the middle of the steepest decline: Oblivion, Bioshock, Fable 2, Gothic 3, Dark Messiah, Mass effect...lots of trashy popamole "RPGs".

Codex nightmare scenario: Desert island. You can take one game, only from the list of aforementioned shit. Which popamole would you choose? I'd have to pick FO3, warts and all: the god awful intro, shitty combat, typical bethesda shortcomings (copy/paste world design, flawed systems, shit writing), tunnel snakes, annoying unkillable children, the really exaggeratedly drab green aesthetic of the world, and VATS.

Are you forced to listen to Three Dawg? That alters the scenario.

 

[Krraloth]

Most of those which I enjoyed for the gameplay but thought had a bland gameworld I also think would have worked better without the open world in the first place (e.g. Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen, Metal Gear Solid V).

Personally I don't think that Dragon's Dogma would have worked as well without the semi free roaming aspect. While it's true that running around the same areas over and over again kinda got tiring after a while (especially during a second playthrough), the game works well because the first time you explore the maps you absolutely have no idea what's gonna happen and the idea of an open world gives with your expectations in a rather nice way.
There aren't many games like Dragon's Dogma but something similar without a party and a "linear" experience are Severance, Dark Messiah and Enclave. In my opinion Dragon's Dogma managed to add exploration done right especially if you happened to start some quests at night. Of course there's room for improvement but ultimately I feel that the open world and the day night cycle were mandatory for a nice experience.

 

[Nuclear Explosion]

Yeah, I was walking on thin ice when I added G3, at it is the only RPG there I haven't played, but I heard it was decline and the general consensus seems to be to steer clear, yet it seems that's mostly because of bugs. Have modders not fixed/reverse engineered it if no source?

Gothic 3 is awful even with the community patch. It has lacklustre combat and content.

 

[Lgrayman]

I beg to differ. Fallout 3 was kinda 'good for what it is', typical Bethesda sandbox game with stats and skills. Fallout 4 was fucking awful, ruined by the retarded focus on settlements and crafting, a misguided attempt to merge two genres.

We will never get a Vault Dweller Fallout 4 review.

Why live?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yet these aren't the only key aspects.

And what key aspects of sandbox/open-ended ARPG Fallout 3 excels at (or hell, is even adequate)? Cause remembering my terrible (though admitingly not that long) experience with I can't really come up with anything that makes it compare favourably to other aRPGs (well maybe Oblivion I guess? Depends on whether you prefer guns or swords, mutants or orcs, it's like a palette switch basically).

It doesn't excel at anything but it has a better character and combat systems as well as the side quests (i.e. 90% of quests in a sandbox game) than Oblivion, Gothic, Morrowind, Two Worlds, Skyrim, Fallout 4, etc. It doesn't make it a great game or a good RPG. It makes it an RPG you can play. In comparison, I couldn't play Fallout 4.

Wow. Just wow. Are you trolling us now VD?

Really? Well, behold Gothic's side quests in all their brilliance (don't let it blind you):

http://mikesrpgcenter.com/gothic/sidequests.html

Gothic had one thing going for it and that's atmosphere. Quests were as simple as they come. To join the old camp you need to "gain influence". Diego wants you to fetch him a list from the mines. Go there, then go back. Thorus wants you to get rid of some trader. Kill him or tell him to leave and he'll run to the new camp clearing the way from the monsters. Scatty wants you to fight some duels. Fingers wants you to learn thieving skills which means grinding to get skill points. Dexter wants you to run to the swamp camp, lockpick a chest and bring him the recipe. Whistler wants you to fetch him a sword he ordered. Sly wants you to fetch a dead guard's amulet.

The reason you remember these simplistic quests so fondly is the atmosphere. In one of the New Camp's *quests* a guard tells you to bring water to 12 peasants (which is as exciting as it sounds, click on each peasant, initiate dialogue, give water, close, rinse and repeat 11 times without clicking on the same peasant twice), then he tells you it's your job now and you should do it every day. You don't, he attacks you on sight. The only wait out of it is to grind a bit, increase your skill and beat him. It's not a quest by any stretch of the imagination but it does a great job supporting the atmosphere.

 

[Western]

Regarding Gothic, I think the biggest problem is that they haven't really gone in a great direction since Gothic 2.

Risen threw back to those games but didn't really make huge improvements.

Something that set Gothic 2 apart wasn't just the 3 faction system but also the main hub, with all the AI scripts, not to mention all the stealing and unforgiving kick you in the balls combat.

I would have liked Gothic 3 to have been less of an attempt to Bethesdise the game (but I suppose a lot of the original devs had bailed by then). It lost the tighter feel of the first 2, with the money saved from making a smaller game some better voice work and writing could have been invested in, and more AI scripting and quest variety.

G2 had great simulationist elements and I enjoyed the RPG elements mixing with action elements, as you executed better combos with improved skill. If anything I wish the game had evolved to have even more simulationist elements, perhaps some Messiah influences where you're potentially kicking people off roofs, back stabbing, infiltrating.

I'll personally always take G2 over FO3 though, the empty real estate of Fallout 3 is just too tedious. Against G3 though it's a harder choice.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Back to Deus Ex:

http://kotaku.com/deus-ex-mankind-divided-the-kotaku-review-1785610152

By the midpoint I found that while I was certainly still enjoying myself, I felt unchallenged and even occasionally listless. Even playing on the highest difficulty, my opponents stood no chance. When I knew that I could just as easily access a locked-off room from the front, bottom, or side, did it even matter which direction I chose?

 

[J_C]

Back to Deus Ex:

http://kotaku.com/deus-ex-mankind-divided-the-kotaku-review-1785610152

By the midpoint I found that while I was certainly still enjoying myself, I felt unchallenged and even occasionally listless. Even playing on the highest difficulty, my opponents stood no chance. When I knew that I could just as easily access a locked-off room from the front, bottom, or side, did it even matter which direction I chose?

HR could also turn into a game without challange if you used takedowns and typhoon explosives a lot. You just run up to a crowd of badguys, activate typhoon and done. And since you could get a lot of ammo, you could spam typhoon a lot. I forced myself to ignore this ability so the game remained challanging.

 

[Infinitron]

They gave Jensen even more abilities in this game though. Hard to blame them - Dishonored was a full-blown OP superpower simulator and got wall-to-wall praise. Game journalists are fickle.

 

[Vault Dweller]

How often do the mainstream media in general and Kotaku in particular complain that a game is so easy it's not even funny?

I longed for some limits, so I imposed limitations on myself. Therein lies both the appeal and the failing of Mankind Divided, a sequel that gives us more power and more options than we had in its predecessor without always offering a counterbalance.
...
Like a good Deus Ex-er, I decided at the outset to focus on stealth, which meant that I didn’t need to pay attention to any of the skills related to damage absorption, reload speed or robo-armor.

The farther I got into the game, the less even that initial stealth/combat distinction seemed to count. I was soon able to earn enough upgrades to unlock the majority of my hacking, stealth, exploration and combat options. The game stopped being about building a specific character for a specific playstyle and became more about choosing which way I wanted to crush my adversaries this time.
...
Maybe I was the problem? To shake things up, I began to experiment with alternate methods of play. No more quicksaving, for starters. ... I added more restrictions: No more fast-hacking multi-tools. No radar during missions. No objective markers. No pausing to replenish my health mid-gunfight. Slowly but surely, I started to feel challenged.

 

[Infinitron]

Interestingly, the developers of Dishonored seem to be anticipating a similar sort of reaction and are spending some time marketing the "no powers" mode for Dishonored 2.