Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided

[True Ukrainian]

So, after upgrading my computer and this game actually running in a playable state, I decided to continue it and have some thoughts. I'm at my second visit to Prague after the Talos Rucker mission. First the good bits. The levels are quite impressive and massive, with a bajillion ways to go through them and little bits of lore and correspondence scattered throughout. They also contain side content that can help you out on the main path (like saving that one dude's brother). This isn't all that surprising because that is what Deus Ex is known for and luckily what Human Revolution tried to preserve. Surprisingly enough, I don't find Adam Jensen as bland as in HR. He kind of strikes me as not knowing exactly what he's doing and just kind of whining it as the plot unfolds. He doesn't worry about that baggage ex-gf of his anymore and he's better off for it. He also doesn't have a whole team of people babysitting him all the time like in HR. This version of him has potential to go somewhere. I know it won't, but there you go. I'm not entirely sure why he's working with the Juggernaut Collective, but I might have forgotten that whole backstory since the last time I played it. I just don't remember why we are spying on TF29 on behalf of that mulatto chick, to the point of installing a bug on their motherboard. That, however, makes him seem like he has his own motivations and reasons for doing whatever he is doing, and is no longer just following what Serif or his gf is telling him to do.

The one kind of bad part is the story is bland. I don't care about any of this and the Czech creating literal concentration camps to keep augmented people inside is a) a bit on the nose, and b) a bit unbelievable. The only way I realistically see this happening is controlling the distribution of neuropozyn, which kind of happens not as a governmental policy but as a matter of scarcity. Which is not the same thing. This oppression of the augmented drowns out everything else, as if nothing else ever happens or is important*. Not only that, but it doesn't gel well with Deus Ex 1. I don't buy into the fact Adam "struggles with discrimination", to me that looks like the rich complaining about "anti-rich propaganda/discrimination". Oh, I'm sorry, it must be so fucking hard for you being a very well-off Übermensch that can lift cars and fly through the air and shit. Is there really no other cyberpunk story you could be telling? I suppose points should be awarded for originality within this setting, but it's dumb and I hate it. This very mushy and nothing writing is what is keeping these games from reaching Deus Ex 1. Yeah, the gameplay is more popamole, but it's close enough that with the right context it could be overlooked. Eh, I'll just play Deus Ex 1 again when I finish this so I can better articulate the differences.

*Speaking of, this is kind of the same thing with our current irl situation. Everything is connected somehow to the stupid virus and I'm feeling like there are a lot of things that can be hidden or conveniently go unmentioned due to this overzealous coverage of a single topic. This could've been an interesting venue to explore for Mankind Divided, especially since Adam has connections not only with indie news networks, but also to Picus, the biggest news provider in this universe. The control of information is the elephant in the room in both HR and MD, but it goes untouched and that lack is glaring.

You have fallen for the game's hidden twist. Which to be fair since it is is only revealed if you take the paliside break in mission and you need to explore to find it.

 

[Lacrymas]

You mean the one where you have to find out the media is covering up a chemical contamination of the water? I didn't explore that much then, yeah.

 

[True Ukrainian]

You mean the one where you have to find out the media is covering up a chemical contamination of the water? I didn't explore that much then, yeah.

No, the one where you are not actually playing as Adam.

 

[Lacrymas]

I haven't gotten there yet, I guess.

 

[True Ukrainian]

I haven't gotten there yet, I guess.

You probably have. Other characters hint about it but the actual concrete proof can only be found by snooping around palliside in the alternate main quest path.

 

[Gerrard]

Why the fuck are there so many TVs everywhere? And all of them on showing the same channel? Is that supposed to be some meta commentary?

 

[wahrk]

The ending was very underwhelming; your choice is "save these people who have been poisoned, or don't".

And you can still save them even if you choose to go after Marchenko first. That was a big cop-out to me.

 

[Yosharian]

So, after upgrading my computer and this game actually running in a playable state, I decided to continue it and have some thoughts. I'm at my second visit to Prague after the Talos Rucker mission. First the good bits. The levels are quite impressive and massive, with a bajillion ways to go through them and little bits of lore and correspondence scattered throughout. They also contain side content that can help you out on the main path (like saving that one dude's brother). This isn't all that surprising because that is what Deus Ex is known for and luckily what Human Revolution tried to preserve. Surprisingly enough, I don't find Adam Jensen as bland as in HR. He strikes me as not knowing exactly what he's doing and just kind of whinging it as the plot unfolds. He doesn't worry about that baggage ex-gf of his anymore and he's better off for it. He also doesn't have a whole team of people babysitting him all the time like in HR. This version of him has potential to go somewhere. I know it won't, but there you go. I'm not entirely sure why he's working with the Juggernaut Collective, but I might have forgotten that whole backstory since the last time I played it. I just don't remember why we are spying on TF29 on behalf of that mulatto chick, to the point of installing a bug on their motherboard. That, however, makes him seem like he has his own motivations and reasons for doing whatever he is doing, and is no longer just following what Serif or his gf is telling him to do.

The one kind of bad part is the story is bland. I don't care about any of this and the Czech creating literal concentration camps to keep augmented people inside is a) a bit on the nose, and b) a bit unbelievable. The only way I realistically see this happening is controlling the distribution of neuropozyn, which kind of happens not as a governmental policy but as a matter of scarcity. Which is not the same thing. This oppression of the augmented drowns out everything else, as if nothing else ever happens or is important*. Not only that, but it doesn't gel well with Deus Ex 1. I don't buy into the fact Adam "struggles with discrimination", to me that looks like the rich complaining about "anti-rich propaganda/discrimination". Oh, I'm sorry, it must be so fucking hard for you being a very well-off Übermensch that can lift cars and fly through the air and shit. Is there really no other cyberpunk story you could be telling? I suppose points should be awarded for originality within this setting, but it's dumb and I hate it. This very mushy and nothing writing is what is keeping these games from reaching Deus Ex 1. Yeah, the gameplay is more popamole, but it's close enough that with the right context it could be overlooked. Eh, I'll just play Deus Ex 1 again when I finish this so I can better articulate the differences.

*Speaking of, this is kind of the same thing with our current irl situation. Everything is connected somehow to the stupid virus and I'm feeling like there are a lot of things that can be hidden or conveniently go unmentioned due to this overzealous coverage of a single topic. This could've been an interesting venue to explore for Mankind Divided, especially since Adam has connections not only with indie news networks, but also to Picus, the biggest news provider in this universe. The control of information is the elephant in the room in both HR and MD, but it goes untouched and that lack is glaring.

Yeah to enjoy this game you have to accept the slightly boring plot for what it is and focus on the side content and general game mechanics i.e. being able to explore Prague and a lot of the time do whatever the fuck you want. I went to the Bank and fully explored it before I was given any mission to go there. When I got a mission, I was like 'aha the bank, yeah I kinda know that place already muhahah'. It was neat.

This game is pretty flawed but if you can look past the flaws, I think it's somewhat of a gem.

BTW I haven't given up on the sequel. One day...

 

[Nano]

I'm not entirely sure why he's working with the Juggernaut Collective, but I might have forgotten that whole backstory since the last time I played it. I just don't remember why we are spying on TF29 on behalf of that mulatto chick, to the point of installing a bug on their motherboard.

Everything will make a lot more sense if you read the Black Light novel. That's what I did before playing MD and I can't imagine doing it any other way.

 

[Wunderbar]

The game should tell you everything you need, I'm not reading any gay side-novels to find out what the story is about.

 

[Atlantico]

No, the one where you are not actually playing as Adam.

That's pretty much confirmed without ever going into the Picus vault. So many times.

The problem is, it's irrelevant because it doesn't go anywhere. A lot of narrative potential wasted in the game, which is very frustrating because you see it's there... but it's just not used.

Still, my second favorite DX game, after the first one.

 

[Israfael]

The game should tell you everything you need, I'm not reading any gay side-novels to find out what's the story is about.

It actually does if you clean up the bank, do the Myska side mission and choose going for the bank instead of saving the girl (this forced choice is actually bad as I could easily do both since I already cleaned the way through the bank security just by exploring)

 

[Gargaune]

The one kind of bad part is the story is bland. [...] Not only that, but it doesn't gel well with Deus Ex 1. I don't buy into the fact Adam "struggles with discrimination", to me that looks like the rich complaining about "anti-rich propaganda/discrimination". Oh, I'm sorry, it must be so fucking hard for you being a very well-off Übermensch that can lift cars and fly through the air and shit.

DX4's plot is widely accepted as being its weak point, both on its own merits of being an underwhelming "middle" episode, as well as on the back of Eidos Montreal's earlier mistakes in Human Revolution, the entire premise of which "didn't gel well" with the original Deus Ex to begin with, as you say.

However, you might be letting your real-life fixations make you go a little too hard on Jensen not being jubilant with his "ubermensch" powers - no matter how much the art department plays up his "cool" augmentations, at the end of the day, he still is a comprehensively broken man made whole by extensive prosthetics, something you'll recall he "never asked for."

This game is pretty flawed but if you can look past the flaws, I think it's somewhat of a gem.

Not that flawed of a gem, in my opinion. Writing aside, I thought the game was excellent, second best Deus Ex since the original and a genuinely good one at that.

 

[Lacrymas]

Whether or not Jensen struggles with his enforced augmentations has nothing really to do with discrimination, though. Or at least it's not very logical. Sure, you might say "being gay is not a choice either", but oppression of specific groups irl is bad not because it makes you feel bad, but because it makes you powerless, which can leave you destitute. Adam Jensen is not powerless and has no chance of being destitute, that's why I mentioned that rich people whining about "anti-rich sentiment" is laughable. On top of all his amazing powers, he also has special permissions other augmented people don't have and is not cooped up in Golem City. Additionally, trying to control augmented people is imo justified when taking into account the state of security and laws. They ARE superhuman and can become a problem if they decide to be criminally active. What is unacceptable is how the cops are overreaching and exploiting their positions in order to be terrible assholes. This smells more of anti-cop propaganda (which I'm not entirely against) than anti-oppression.

 

[Stavrophore]

The story is more down to earth than human revolution, but at the same time it has such a big plot holes its hard to take it seriously. I've enjoyed the gameplay on hardest difficulty, albeit the takedowns are way too easy with recharging battery.

 

[Gargaune]

Whether or not Jensen struggles with his enforced augmentations has nothing really to do with discrimination, though. Or at least it's not very logical. Sure, you might say "being gay is not a choice either", but oppression of specific groups irl is bad not because it makes you feel bad, but because it makes you powerless, which can leave you destitute. Adam Jensen is not powerless and has no chance of being destitute, that's why I mentioned that rich people whining about "anti-rich sentiment" is laughable. On top of all his amazing powers, he also has special permissions other augmented people don't have and is not cooped up in Golem City.

Even in this argument, Adam Jensen's special permissions are the result of his job, not something inherent to the nature of his augmentations. His independence of neuropozyne isn't a factor to his rights and freedoms.

Much like being gay, Jensen can't just "stop" being augmented, but he can always lose his position and, therefore, his protections. Even from a poorly pragmatic standpoint, it's natural for him to relate to the plight of other augmented individuals, something he's constantly reminded of by ID checks and TV news, and it's easy for him to picture himself in the same circumstances, facing a choice between becoming an invalid (not really an option given the scope of his prosthetics) or being confined to a ghetto. He's always one UN vote or one too many poor performance reviews away from becoming powerless and destitute.

P.S. Just to be clear, DX4's fiction is very on the nose and overly-ambitious with its themes, trying to bite off more than it can properly chew, but the protagonist's motivations and place in it aren't a problem.

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't think anybody can strip him of his augmentations, and his unique independence from neuropozyne does grant him freedoms basically nobody else has. I'm not saying he can't empathize with the people who are oppressed, but he used the argument "I suffer too!" with Rucker. No, you don't, Adam. I'm pretty sure he has enough contingency plans and the reputation of one of the best special agents in the world, so I don't see a possibility in which he is destitute. You can also see the huge difference between him and other augmented people when you do the Golem City mission. My main point, I guess, is that Jensen is not the best protagonist to go through this story with. My side point is the augmented people aren't oppressed in a very realistic way. Herding a group of superhumans into a concentration camp is shaky at best and a bit impossible to do in the few months between the end of Human Revolution and its legislation. The wiki states governments cracked down too hard on the mechanical augmentation industry, causing it to collapse, but I don't think that's realistic either, especially given the time frame of only a maximum of 2 years. Unless they outright ban their creation (which is not the case according to the wiki), it doesn't really matter how expensive augmentations become, someone will have enough money to make use of their incredible potential. Even if that is only private military corporations and governments. I don't know, the more I look into it, the more it breaks down for me.

 

[Gargaune]

I don't think anybody can strip him of his augmentations, and his unique independence from neuropozyne does grant him freedoms basically nobody else has. I'm not saying he can't empathize with the people who are oppressed, but he used the argument "I suffer too!" with Rucker. No, you don't, Adam. I'm pretty sure he has enough contingency plans and the reputation of one of the best special agents in the world, so I don't see a possibility in which he is destitute. You can also see the huge difference between him and other augmented people when you do the Golem City mission.

Jensen's independence from neuropozyne is immaterial to the background conflict we're discussing, and that's that the UN is preparing to vote on deporting all still-augmented individuals to a reservation city being built in Oman, definitively segregating them from society at large, something which is already being implemented on a local scale in Prague. To go with your earlier analogy, it'd be like the UN mandating that all gay people choose between chemical sterilization or deportation to Australia. The game does not indicate at any point that Jensen has any other special privileges than those afforded by his employment at TF29, so we can reasonably picture how he sees his future if such were to pass - since he can't give up his prosthetics, he'd either be confined to an "aug city", such as it might be, or become a fugitive in the wider world.

My main point, I guess, is that Jensen is not the best protagonist to go through this story with.

No, he may not be the best protagonist for that story, but neither is he a bad one. You might get more dramatic mileage out of a protagonist who doesn't enjoy Jensen's TF29 protections, but he's got plenty of motivation and works well enough as-is.


I won't discuss the rest of your post because I don't really have an argument there, outside of Jensen's involvement, DX4's fictional setting has significant flaws and they inevitably show. Like I've said before, Eidos Montreal screwed the pooch with Human Revolution's fiction, both their retconning of augmentations as fashionable consumer products and the "Aug Incident" itself were poor writing decisions which, unsurprisingly, formed shaky ground for the series to build on and DX4 tried to tackle subject matter beyond its reach.

 

[Gerrard]

Jesus Christ, this "boss fight" in "The Last Harvest" was the most overdesigned shit I have ever seen. So many different ways to do it when all it took was a couple of EMP rounds from the 10mm pistol.



Also, my overall impression is that this game is incredibly easy. I don't know if it's because they used feedbackt/telemetry from HR and modern "gamers" being absolutely terrible at games or what, but by the end of the first Prague section I was swimming in gear.

 

[Israfael]

I dont remember what i did for sure, too long ago, but i think it was much harder to not kill her as compared to just blowing her up. dont remember if the killword was also instant or not

 

[Lacrymas]

Is that Allison? I went to the bank instead, it seemed more interesting.

 

[Israfael]

It's a side quest, not related to the bank / mechanicum choice in any way

 

[Gargaune]

Also, my overall impression is that this game is incredibly easy. I don't know if it's because they used feedbackt/telemetry from HR and modern "gamers" being absolutely terrible at games or what, but by the end of the first Prague section I was swimming in gear.

Yeah, much as I love the game, it is a bit on the easy side.

I dont remember what i did for sure, too long ago, but i think it was much harder to not kill her as compared to just blowing her up. dont remember if the killword was also instant or not

I talked her down using the conversation augs, you just gotta follow her reactions monitor and hit her with the roofie perfume when prompted.

The dialogue aug was another thing that I felt could've been better, a nice idea but would've been due a more comprehensive execution. First, there's a bit of an issue in that when you take CASIE, you end paying more attention to the monitor than what people are actually saying in applicable conversations. Second, I think it would've been better to have it as a skill aug with different levels (basically a Persuasion skill) and build dialogue around that, rather than have a QTE where you just gotta hit 'em with your man-scent at the right time.

Is that Allison? I went to the bank instead, it seemed more interesting.

No, the Harvester is an optional quest line that has you doing some police work to track down a serial killer.

 

[True Ukrainian]

The game is too generous with experience and if you complete the Divali quest line, Adam's big overheating weakness gets removed just in time for the end game. That makes the finale pretty weak since Adam has grown so powerful.

 

[Gerrard]

One more thing I forgot that triggered my autism: when you pick up a duplicate weapon all you get is a few bullets, but if you drop your weapon and pick that one up you can dismantle it for a whole bunch of crafting parts (50 for rifle/shotgun). I wasn't using any of the augs that require ammo, but if you are this would be super annoying.