Dev Log #56: Experimental Branch with Version 1.0.3.13

[Sykar]

Who do you think you are arguing with dipshit?

Someone who learned you can't always avoid getting hit the hard way.

You are even more idiotic than I thought.

 

[Tygrende]

Coming from the guy who had to use 80 bear traps to deal with the bladeling waves, this might as well be a compliment.

 

[Sykar]

Coming from the guy who had to use 80 bear traps to deal with the bladeling waves, this might as well be a compliment.

Proving once again that your reading comprehension is in the gutter. Well done retard.

 

[Tygrende]

I have made it so far to the last wave but I do not want Saban and Dan to die but their equipment is terrible to combat bladelings and their AI is borderline retarded. I am using over 80 bear traps, 4 HE mines, Caldrops, lots of PSI boosters, closing them in with Force Field for 4 rounds and yet the last wave overruns my companions.

Seems fine to me. I understand your frustration though.

 

[Sykar]

No you did not. The problem is not to win the fight the problem is to keep Dan and Saban alive, moron.

 

[Tygrende]

I have only said that you needed 80 bear traps to deal with the waves. Talk about reading comprehension, eh?

Anyways, is there anything new you want to complain about, or are you just venting after getting 1-shot by a Death Stalker again?

 

[Sykar]

I have only said that you needed 80 bear traps to deal with the waves. Talk about reading comprehension, eh?

Anyways, is there anything new you want to complain about, or are you just venting after getting 1-shot by a Death Stalker again?

You don't even get it when people spell it out for you. Fuck off retard.

 

[Tygrende]

But I am not the one who started this conversation, you are. I am merely respoding. It's up to you to fuck off, not me.

 

[Sykar]

But I am not the one who started this conversation, you are. I am merely respoding. It's up to you to fuck off, not me.

I was responding to shit you talked about me fucktard. The most hilarious part is that you believe it is just me and Lhynn who have a problem even though Parabolus and Pope Amole agree as well that Dominating is pretty shit because for the most part it is just obnoxious.
But keep patting yourself on the back believing you know something we do not.

 

[Tygrende]

The most hilarious part is that you believe it is just me and Lhynn who have a problem

I have never said that. As a matter of fact I have acknowledged that there are more people who are having problems with it:

Lhynn and me are not the only ones who thing that Dominating is shit.

Epeli and me are not the only ones who think DOMINATING is mostly fine. Not sure how it matters though.

Your reading comprehension could use some work. Lessons, maybe?

This conversation is not very constructive, I think I will go and play some Underrail now. Not getting 1-shot by Death Stalkers and all.

 

[epeli]

Mmm, the flames are heating up nicely. I meant to post this like an hour ago, but got stuck watching for replies.

Anyways. Look guys, even when I'm being an insufferable cunt, I sincerely want Underrail to be the best game it can be for everyone because I just love it that fucking much.
Back when codex was bitching about Deep Caverns, I disagreed with that shit, but nevertheless pushed some major kodex koncerns to Styg the best I could. And he disagreed. Yet he still ended up changing some of them!
But I know Styg won't turn DOMINATING into dominating-but-not-really, because that's what hard already is.

one! idiotically overtuned enemy I have to suffer? Why is it a problem to tone down the Stealth detection a little? Seriously? I am not even asking to nerf the Coil Spider since I can handle it because I am a sniper and outrange them. My concern was merely for melee stealthers who do not have the same luxury.

Sorry but I don't even know where your goalposts are at this point, that one enemy wasn't your original concern. You've talked about pretty much every tough encounter until you learnt how to deal with it. Maybe you should just avoid most death stalkers until your character simply surpasses their stealth/detection numerically, if you can't or don't want to deal with them without that advantage.

I responded to the stealth melee concerns in my previous dose of awful obnoxious rambling. Nothing has insurmountable detection, you probably were slightly below their instant detection threshold and got a wrong impression. If stealth melee can't get 120 stealth for the spiders, they really shouldn't be playing on dominating.

Just how big is your internal playtesting team?

I'm talking about all the players on experimental branch (few loud lovers/haters are anecdotes, not data), not handful of internal testers. From my perspective, internal testing is best suited for ironing out any critical bugs. If it was up to me, I would love to push experimental patches out to eager players as soon as possible, so they get as much chance to affect development as possible. Just like it was back during alpha, IMO that was the best time for Underrail development.

You're being a condescending dick - Underrail has a real difficulty distinguishing tedium from difficulty.

Hey, it's hard to resist the temptation of trolling a bit here. Codex pretends to be the hardcore RPG grognard community, yet it's the only one where people get mad when any game throws them actual challenges and forces them to adapt. Can't pass the opportunity when it happens in the corner where I'm constantly posting! (I still love all of you faggots)

In regards to tedium/difficulty (and many other things), there certainly are numerous issues. Nothing's ever perfect. Known issues will be fixed in due time, that's all I can say. But those are hardly exclusive to or even important in the new difficulty. Do you think there is something particularly tedious about dominating or this update otherwise?

Disparaging fans who found Hard too easy and DOMINATING too autistic is pointless.

I've posted few times that hard is now improved and I genuinely believe it is the best difficulty for most players here. I didn't say that to be a condescending prick and I will repeat myself in vain only so many times, perkele.

Seriously. I'm fairly certain the new hard is exactly what Sykar wanted from dominating because his suggestions have mirrored the differences between hard and dominating. Don't know about others. It seems Lhynn's mad because his favorite build has gotten successive nerfs, and that's understandable. Don't know what I could do about that. He also opines that there is a fundamental issue with slower combat pacing, but I disagree. Too much HP bloat is certainly decline, but so is the other extreme. Underrail has always been teetering on the edge of that other extreme. If combat is too short, it diminishes to "how2alphastrike" puzzlegame with not much tactical meat left after you initial actions have decided the entire course of the fight.

 

[toro]

I could not resist and I've started another play-through ... on Hard.

Found one bug: You can "freeze" psi-beetles if you close a door when they sit on the door frame tile.

Not so good: Mobs aggro like crazy ... but sometimes they don't.

Early-game cheese tactic: "Sure Step" and caltrops. I've killed all the 6 psi-beetles close to the Mushrooms Cave using this tactic

Bad surprise: Psi-beetles and rathounds know how to avoid caltrops. That would make sense for human opponents but it really doesn't make sense for less-that-human enemies.

Overall, it looks like Hard difficulty is almost like it should be. At level 5 I'm almost done with GMS compound quest and I got everything I wanted while the game is really fun and challenging. I'm tempted to try DOMINATING but ... nah. I hate HP bloat.

 

[Fenix]

Since you are incapable of staying civil and cannot keep your retarded patronizing bullshit to yourself here a gentle advice from me

Don't be so angry, it's a New Year and Cristmas soon, let's be frends. )

dominating-but-not-really

I'm not far into game on Dominating, only the end of GMS compaund mission, so far Newtons quest was a little... I don't know how to say - it wasn't hard, it was just "kill 8 bugs that all gathered before exit with the help of doors" (pistlol build,I hope if you use silent weapon they don't gather there), an it is somewhat ruined pacing.

 

[Lhynn]

Naked? No, he's comparing Sykar's fully geared character to his own

He was talking to me, not him, if he was trying to make a point about another post by another person to me then he is retarded instead of dishonest.

Probably not, but you are the only butthurt loudmouths. I'll be reading your posts to see if any real issues pop up, but please don't get your hopes up. Most of this is going nowhere and Styg has no intention of making dominating easier for your special snowflake needs.

Man, you are really butthurt over this, arent you? I complained in the fallout 4 thread about bad design, i complained in the pillars of eternity thread about bad design, im complaining here about bad design. If you cant provide a reasonable argument as to why dominating improves gameplay (and you cant, because it simply doesnt), and all you have is "you dont have to play it" then you should at least be smart enough to shut up.

You're being a condescending dick - Underrail has a real problem with distinguishing tedium from difficulty. Disparaging fans who found Hard too easy and DOMINATING too autistic is pointless.

You nailed it.

Back when codex was bitching about Deep Caverns

I liked DC. My only problem with underrail back then and still today is that Six is a retarded character that ruins the entire plot of the game. Also clearly stygs pet character.

But I know Styg won't turn DOMINATING into dominating-but-not-really, because that's what hard already is.

Not saying it should be made easier, im saying it should not be shit.

Hey, it's hard to resist the temptation of trolling a bit here. Codex pretends to be the hardcore RPG grognard community, yet it's the only one where people get mad when any game throws them actual challenges and forces them to adapt.

This is retarded. ive played harder games than underrail on whatever difficulty. That isnt the issue here. Tome on normal is much harder and more dangerous than underrail will ever be, and its a roguelike on top of that.

Do you think there is something particularly tedious about dominating or this update otherwise?

This kind of difficulty increase is shit. Improve the AI, increase the spawns, introduce new abilities, introduce new enemy types, introduce new environmental hazards, touch the economy, create new encounters, introduce more complexity with status effects, new actions, increase damage received, decrease the availability of healing or make it less effective, same with psi, make psi more costly, tailor new encounters to counter known meta tactics, etc. Thats how you increase difficulty (which to be fair was done by styg also). But do not bloat numbers, that shit is retarded, lazy, and never good and its being defended by a shortsighted fanboy and that always just makes me want to shit on them, regardless of the game.

It seems Lhynn's mad because his favorite build has gotten successive nerfs, and that's understandable.

That annoyed me, several times in a row, its not what this is about tho.

Underrail has always been teetering on the edge of that other extreme.

No it hasnt, its just that most meta has revolved around frontloading damage because of the lethality of the fights, its more true today than it was back then with the straight up buff to damage and ehp on the enemies and the severe nerf to defenses you want to end encounters even faster (or cheese the shit out of them). You just have to suffer through bullet sponges now.

If combat is too short, it diminishes to "how2alphastrike" puzzlegame with not much tactical meat left after you initial actions have decided the entire course of the fight.

This isnt true either, especially in the bigger encounters against many enemies. Its only true in encounters against a single overpowering enemy.

 

[Sykar]

And such encounters with a single overpowering enemy were rare. If he wanted to prevent one shoting of Cuthul... err Tchort he could have made him just immune early on.

 

[Fenix]

Meanwhile in Underrail.
I found out, that when group of enemy is too though, you can make one group of enemy fight with other. )
Do you remember map, when chain of room in the middle, and lurkers on one side, and burrowers and exit to small cave with burrowers on another?
You can access it even before you get TNT.
So, I lured lurkers to burrowers and enjoyed massacre.

 

[Sykar]

Meanwhile in Underrail.
I found out, that when group of enemy is too though, you can make one group of enemy fight with other. )
Do you remember map, when chain of room in the middle, and lurkers on one side, and burrowers and exit to small cave with burrowers on another?
You can access it even before you get TNT.
So, I lured lurkers to burrowers and enjoyed massacre.

Heh, sounds fun.

touch the economy

This is one of the problems which boggles my mind that he has not touched it yet. One of the major reasons why people consider Mercentile worthless is that they never have money problems anyway. Prices for high quality items and components could be for example much more expensive. Like 3-4 times or more. It should be somewhat painful to your wallet to purchase them and a buy you put some thought into.
As it stands now the only real money sink in the game is the house and supersteel which is not really interesting for a lot of characters.
On top of that a lot of medicines are too plentiful. I end up usually with over 40 Health Stims by the time I reach Core City. I think it is not unreasonable to add a "stims can break when characters die" on Hard and Dominating so you have to buy more. I'd go so far and say that really valuable stims like Adrenaline and Morphine Shot should be more expensive and only very rarely be recovered from enemies if at all.

In conjunction with this I also consider that there should be more speech checks for favorable outcomes, saving money, more experience, etc and also to get into factions for example.
To elaborate when you go look for the train I am surprised that the Drone guard lets you go like that. He should be very suspicious of you not telling anyone about it even if he is not the smartest tool in the shed. Yet you can very easily convince him that you won't say anything. There should be a reasonable speech check here for you to get away without a fight and it could be for all 3 alternatives and option. Mercantile giving you an option like "Here some coin for a good cause and then anything from 500 to 100" while Intimidation could go like "I have wasted Protectorates goons tougher than you guys, don't mess with me" and Persuasion to the current option about "Keep up the good fight".
Likewise when you want to join the Protectorate I do consider that at least having one of those skills mandatory for either joining or getting higher level missions. Trust should not just about that you do a mission or two for them you have to convince the superiors why they should bother entrusting crucial missions to you.
Likewise I find it rather interesting how easily Eddy and Silas trust you. But since I doubt any major changes will be done here Styg could opt for giving the player the opportunity to skip the initial quest, or second quest, from Silas for with a successful persuasion/mercantile/intimidation check and maybe skip the second quest for Eddy the same way, letting you into Depot A faster.

 

[Stavrophore]

The problem on dominating is that merchants sell random shit, and waiting for restocking is just pain, even with cheat engine. I dont see any advantages of system where merchants buy limited shit, and sell limited shit. Its a vidya game, not real life[not that in real life with enough money you can buy everything up to the littlest detail you wish], gamers will always find a way around tedium.

 

[Fenix]

So far, I have only positive impressions, except Newton quest.
Stopped in Depot A, cleared two entrance maps - from Scrappers and Eels.

I decided to develop chem guns, because before already did energy.
Well, something went smooth and something not - before I got advanced catalist belt!
This thing is HUGE. Now I can shoot 3 time per turn - and with a gun that has at least 34% to proc effect and Coocked Shot this is awesome.
Cold-based appear to be even more tactical, while Acid mostly about damage.

I went to the caves south from SGS - you know, that banal trip through rathounds, boars and psi-bugs... or it was like that before DOMINATING!
Those Goliath bugs... they are really something.

Also about changes - it seemed to me that period after which traders refresh their inventore is longer on Dominating?
Anyway, I'm fine with it.
Also I noticed, that prices on some equipment was rised, for examle chemical weapon frame.

That's my boy.

Spoiler

Someone did Bruce Lee build for Domination, guide is in Russian only sadly, but that's interesting.

He didn't even use stealth.

 

[Stavrophore]

Someone did Bruce Lee build for Domination, guide is in Russian only sadly.

Of course its russian.

 

[Parabalus]

touch the economy

Not sure where all of you are shitting all this coins from - you end up with a lot of loot, sure, but you can't sell it because of the merchants coin limit, so you dump it at their feet and sell it every time you pass by. Considering pre-nerf you needed several quality super steel you could easily spend 30k (90k value) coins just on them, and a ton on the house.

If austerity is implemented, then merchants need to be fixed, which sounds like the amount of work fit for an expansion.

In conjunction with this I also consider that there should be more speech checks for favorable outcomes, saving money, more experience, etc and also to get into factions for example.
To elaborate when you go look for the train I am surprised that the Drone guard lets you go like that. He should be very suspicious of you not telling anyone about it even if he is not the smartest tool in the shed. Yet you can very easily convince him that you won't say anything. There should be a reasonable speech check here for you to get away without a fight and it could be for all 3 alternatives and option. Mercantile giving you an option like "Here some coin for a good cause and then anything from 500 to 100" while Intimidation could go like "I have wasted Protectorates goons tougher than you guys, don't mess with me" and Persuasion to the current option about "Keep up the good fight".
Likewise when you want to join the Protectorate I do consider that at least having one of those skills mandatory for either joining or getting higher level missions. Trust should not just about that you do a mission or two for them you have to convince the superiors why they should bother entrusting crucial missions to you.
Likewise I find it rather interesting how easily Eddy and Silas trust you. But since I doubt any major changes will be done here Styg could opt for giving the player the opportunity to skip the initial quest, or second quest, from Silas for with a successful persuasion/mercantile/intimidation check and maybe skip the second quest for Eddy the same way, letting you into Depot A faster.

Checks to skip quests are pointless since you only lose xp/coins by skipping, why would you do it if you aren't bored?

Mercanlite is worth taking after the changes, the extra inventory means you will find the components you want in fewer shopping cycles (=saves time). Intimidate could probably be merged by persuade without much loss though.

Just how big is your internal playtesting team?

I'm talking about all the players on experimental branch (few loud lovers/haters are anecdotes, not data), not handful of internal testers. From my perspective, internal testing is best suited for ironing out any critical bugs. If it was up to me, I would love to push experimental patches out to eager players as soon as possible, so they get as much chance to affect development as possible. Just like it was back during alpha, IMO that was the best time for Underrail development.

The are more people complaining about dominating than praising it then, unless there is a forum other than codex/steam/official.

Also about changes - it seemed to me that period after which traders refresh their inventore is longer on Dominating?

Is this true epeli? That's just retarded, this will increase the already gigantic pile of loot dumped at each traders feet.
Either tie merchant restocks to quest/level progression and tune it however you want, but encouraging leaving the game on so you can sell/get your shit is degenrate.

 

[Lhynn]

Not sure where all of you are shitting all this coins from - you end up with a lot of loot, sure, but you can't sell it because of the merchants coin limit, so you dump it at their feet and sell it every time you pass by. Considering pre-nerf you needed several quality super steel you could easily spend 30k (90k value) coins just on them, and a ton on the house.

If austerity is implemented, then merchants need to be fixed, which sounds like the amount of work fit for an expansion.

I agree, prices need to be brought down to sensible levels for the few money sinks this game has. And i kind of dont see a point of doing it because most games that do end up with fucked up economies where a piece of meal costs more than what you get for selling an assault rifle. But it would be an extra challenge because it touches upon crafting.

 

[Tygrende]

Also about changes - it seemed to me that period after which traders refresh their inventore is longer on Dominating?

I've been playing for around 50 hours on DOMINATING so far and didn't notice any changes to this, their inventory seems to refresh every 90 minutes as usual.

 

[Fenix]

I thought it was 30 minutes...

 

[Polydeuces]

Also about changes - it seemed to me that period after which traders refresh their inventore is longer on Dominating?

I've been playing for around 50 hours on DOMINATING so far and didn't notice any changes to this, their inventory seems to refresh every 90 minutes as usual.

So that's why stuff was hard to find early on!