Editorial Did BioWare dumb down Dragon Age ?

[Antihero]

Why don't they just replace the responses with the symbols themselves?

And leave nothing new for DA3?

Anyway, that IGN article is supposedly based off only one conversation, but how many more symbols would they have anyway, will they use a symbol for every choice, and how much more of a difference would it even make? So far there's "wimp", "derp", and "let's fight!", which aren't exactly inspiring for middle of the road dialogue choices.

But I guess I'm more annoyed that it might be seen by others as an improvement over previous dialogue trees. If BioWare wants to use the wheel and the writers love it, then it's indicative to me that the writing would be even worse anyway and having a dialogue wheel isn't going to change that. Even if the actual full dialogue is any good, your character might as well just be another NPC parroting it.

But they can always make up for it with action-packed cutscenes.


... And while I can't stop editing my post, here's, potentially, more of the type of fine writing that we can look forward to:


That's your first dialogue choice in the Leliana's Song DLC; it's supposedly somewhat like DA2's dialogue but without the wheel. No simple "let's go" choice, but instead the writers get caught up in the head of the character and you're just along for the ride. I know it's supposedly the B-team working on the DLCs, but it seemed much the same for the ME series. It was the first DA DLC I bought out of boredom, but had to quit for a few hours out of annoyance after seeing just that. Yeah, that's trivial, but still; decided to waste my time elsewhere.

 

[oneself]

Bioware is trying to tap into the market segment of the rich illiterate.
Rich might be a bit of overstatement. More like has somehow obtained a PC

 

[undecaf]

We also got to see the new conversation system. Dialogue has been simplified so that you only have up to three choices. Each choice is represented by an icon that indicates whether or it's a "good," "nasty," or "badass" choice. Good choices are represented by an olive branch, nasty by a Greek comedy mask, and badass by a red fist. This is an easy way to gauge what response your dialogue choices will produce.

I like where this is heading.

What the fuck?

Maybe they should remove the dialog choices altogether and give the player only an opportunity to choose a stance for the whole conversation before watching a cutscene.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Bioware is trying to tap into the market segment of the rich illiterate.
Rich might be a bit of overstatement. More like has somehow obtained a PC

Pfft, more like has bought a Xbox360 with credit card.

 

[aries202]

-ehm-

You all seem to be forgetting that the Bioware docs are sitting on the EA board of directors, along with Riccitiello, and they probably own several stocks in the company as well. The docs are also Vicepresidents of EA, something the bosses from Pandemic weren't.

and

-ehm-

Long before Elevation Partners and EA were in the picture, Bioware established an MMO studio in Austion, Texas, USA. And yes, Bioware is not the same as the Bioware it was 10 years ago. As people grow and develop, so must companies as well.

-ehm-

As for Riccitiello business practises, please note that things which are illegal and consideres fishy in Europa are totally normal and legal in the US. We can bemoan this all we want, but such is it. And the Bioware docs sure also got a lot of money out of it selling it twice. So did the employees, I hear, as they also own a part of the company, through shares and stocks etc.

 

[Sceptic]

Why are fanboys so dumb?

ELECTRONIC ARTS OWNS BIOWARE.

End of story.

No ifs, no buts, no "they own stocks", no "they're on the board of directors", no "they're VPs", no nothing.

EA owns Bioware.

Full stop.

Deal with it.

 

[Volourn]

Why is Sceptic dumb? Believe me, you don't know what the contract states. Trust me, it's not as cut and dry as you cloaim. Bottom line is BIO will exist as long as the docs say so.

 

[janjetina]

It seems that Bioware is taking suggestions from their fans:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic ... x/600842/3

Now look, this is getting ridiculous.

I came in here to start an intelligent, civilized conversation with you people but so far all I'm seeing is people pointing fingers and disagreeing with each other without arguments. I thought higher of this place given Bioware is an old company and with a respectable fanbase. However this constant "nay I think Bioware is gud lol omg ur wrong" is nonsense. Bioware games have always been about dialog and choices and passing emotion to the players so it should have gathered a more mature audience in here. That Nicklas person is obviously derailing this conversation and trying to get this topic closed, it's almost like this is not the Bioware forums I used to know but something much worse.

Please guys stay on topic.

Also what about Bethesda? They've managed to make instant classics like Oblivion and Fallout3, turning old, outdated IPs into something better that we all could enjoy in our next-gen gaming age. I bet they could make a worthy expansion for DA, what do you guys think?

Discuss!!

Yes, there are a few features Dragon's Age lacks to be considered the true next-gen game, and Bethesda has repeteadly proven itself as an expert in that field. A magnificent dialogu wheel designed by the mastermind of Todd Howard, should replace obsolete long sentences like the ones present in Dragon's Age. I mean, who speaks that way. I mean, in everyday sentences, like when you talk to the MCD employee in the drive through, do you order a triple cheeseburger with the extralarge portion of fries and maybe ask about rumors, or do you use complex and incomprehensible long sentences? Everybody knows that book and text are obsolete concepts to be replaced with cinematics and movies. Everybody who played Dragon's age just pressed 1 on all dialogues to skip them ASAP and get on with exciting fighting (especially the one in the best part of the game, the Deer Roads). Also, the camera in Dragon's Age is not next-gen enough. It needs to be a from a first person perspective with bloom caressing your eyes from all sides. And finally, there is a sad lack of horses and guns and both are right up Bethesda'ss alley. So, go with the flow and embrace the change and make Bethesda do the sequel.

considering the best villiani, this is also something that is best handled by Bethesda. I mean, the villain in Faklout 3 is, like, a computer. Like hello! Do you think that anybody else has the capability of producing such a complex villain? I mean, you have to be pretty crafty to build a computer with a personality. Strong AI, like, ain't even out yet (though Radiant AI is pretty close, I guess).

EDIT ADDED:

Also, the best story is the one you imagine in your head while you play. It is the best when you don't get served everything up front, but use your imaginatiuon, like in Fallout 3 when you're shooting from a Fatman nuclear launcher you imagine that you spread radiation all over and you and your faithful companion have to go decontaminate, or in Oblivion when you imagine you are a noble knight riding a horse and saving the world.
This is how the best stories in RPGs are being told: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw. No extra letters, just in-your-face, no-holds-barred dark, gritty and mature realistic cinematic next-gen experience.

When I write this I feel the need to pass something out of my system. I feel that Dragon Age is good for what it is, but many features can be improved my making them next-gen. See Mass Effect as a good example - Bioware follows Bethesda's footsteps with the dialogue wheel and the result is a dashing success. It will also happen with Alpha Proctocool that is set to be a real SLAM DUNK, but such a success would be impossible without Bethesda's next gen invention. Just like the invention of the wheel has forever changed the human history, the invention of the Dialogue Wheel by Todd Howard has changed the gaming forever, bringing us into the True Next-Gen Era.

 

[Cassidy]

So Andhaira is not only a troll, but also a traitor of Codexia.

Epic reading material right there.

 

[Drakron]

You all seem to be forgetting that the Bioware docs are sitting on the EA board of directors, along with Riccitiello ...

Next time you try to BS your way into "winning" a argument you should make sure what you are about to say is not public knowledge.

http://investors.ea.com/directors.cfm

http://aboutus.ea.com/executive-sectionofficers.action

 

[circ]

FUCK YOU MAN. FAKE EA WEBSITE. WE CAN ALL MAKE THOSE.

 

[Stalin]

Biowarez made DA SMARTER FAGGOTS

 

[SCO]

For retards by retards

 

[commie]

I'm actually amazed that Andhaira can write in sentences and use a bit of irony and wit(ok, within the limitation of being him).

Why can't he do that here? Uses it all when whoring(trolling) himself on other sites I guess...

 

[aries202]

And do you not think that their titles as Vice Presidents of EA mean something? I do. And as long as Bioware continues to bring in money to EA, nothing will happen....in respect to Bioware making their own decisions.

As for dumbing down Dragon Age, what aspects did they dumb down. It must be the accessibility i.e. I (and other players) can jump right in the game and play the game without first consulting a walkthrough. You learn the game as you play the game. And in some of the old games, we all love and care for, the user interface is not a great or good as in DA: Origins. Or is it because the game isn't turnbased? or something like that?

It can't be because of the story in the game? It isn't just about collecting an anrmy, you know. The main quest seems to be investigating how people reacts to a crisis say the Blight (or let's just be honest and call it terror). Some will look for power, others will look for love, others will look for safety, while others will perform acts of heroisms. And others will then perform acts of cowardice.

If you did Sten's quest (for his sword), you'll notice that he says that it is commendable to stay and fight; he also says that others were fleeing...(hint here about Hawke fleeing from Lothering or Ostagar?) Also, I've found the origin stories to be a great way to introduce the setting. The main quest will take you through the hubs yo'u'll need to go to during the game, but in each of these hubs, there will be plenty of sidequests for you to do. (if you have high enough coercion skill, you can sometimes solve these without a fight) And the side quests do fit in nicely with the main quest.

Accesibility in the user interface does not necessarily mean that other features in the game are dumbed down such as the story or the gameplay. I don't long for the days of yesteryear where we didn't have plug and play or an accesible user interface that means that all people, not just nerds, can or could, play the game...

 

[hiver]

Andhaira is actually a VD alt.

You didnt know that? Ho,ho,ho.

 

[MetalCraze]

You all seem to be forgetting that the Bioware docs are sitting on the EA board of directors, along with Riccitielloc.

The only place Bioware docs are sitting at now is a board of nobodies, praying that Riccitiello won't fire them to turn their studio into EA Edmonton.

And as long as Bioware continues to bring in money to EA, nothing will happen....

Like it was with Black Box and Pandemic just recently huh?
Not mentioning all those Westwoods and Origins

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

And do you not think that their titles as Vice Presidents of EA mean something? I do. And as long as Bioware continues to bring in money to EA, nothing will happen....in respect to Bioware making their own decisions.

As for dumbing down Dragon Age, what aspects did they dumb down. It must be the accessibility i.e. I (and other players) can jump right in the game and play the game without first consulting a walkthrough. You learn the game as you play the game. And in some of the old games, we all love and care for, the user interface is not a great or good as in DA: Origins. Or is it because the game isn't turnbased? or something like that?

It can't be because of the story in the game? It isn't just about collecting an anrmy, you know. The main quest seems to be investigating how people reacts to a crisis say the Blight (or let's just be honest and call it terror). Some will look for power, others will look for love, others will look for safety, while others will perform acts of heroisms. And others will then perform acts of cowardice.

If you did Sten's quest (for his sword), you'll notice that he says that it is commendable to stay and fight; he also says that others were fleeing...(hint here about Hawke fleeing from Lothering or Ostagar?) Also, I've found the origin stories to be a great way to introduce the setting. The main quest will take you through the hubs yo'u'll need to go to during the game, but in each of these hubs, there will be plenty of sidequests for you to do. (if you have high enough coercion skill, you can sometimes solve these without a fight) And the side quests do fit in nicely with the main quest.

Accesibility in the user interface does not necessarily mean that other features in the game are dumbed down such as the story or the gameplay. I don't long for the days of yesteryear where we didn't have plug and play or an accesible user interface that means that all people, not just nerds, can or could, play the game...

Fag.

Anyway, fuck accessibility. That = dumbing down. Back in the day you had to *gasp* read the manual before you played the game. Is that really so bad? Spending a half hour reading something that came with the game to teach you the basics? The origin stories were honestly not a bad idea, but the story sucked, the encounter designs were fucking atrocious, and the dialogue was laughable, and you are a fag.

Sorry, the last point is the most important. You are a fag.

 

[Antihero]

Anyway, fuck accessibility. That = dumbing down. Back in the day you had to *gasp* read the manual before you played the game.

Yes, and also look at the user interfaces from back then. Some might have been like reading hieroglyphics at first if you weren't used to them. Now we got all these terrible, popamole things like higher resolution displays to fit more information on, tooltips, popups, and other in-game help, some of which were already in older games but weren't really standardized (like holding tab instead of hovering for tooltips).

Is that really so bad? Spending a half hour reading something that came with the game to teach you the basics?

Nope, but having to isn't necessarily a sign of making an intelligent game. If you load up all the lasting decisions up front, then sure, they might as well have to. And it's not just restricted to games - most users won't bother reading any software manual. You're lucky if they'll even read an error dialog when it pops up, let alone try to understand it. You'll see posts like "why can't my high level wizard cast level nine spells??!", which is almost always directly followed by "what's his INT?". Sure they should have known ahead of time, but the game could just as easily have warned them so they learn what they need to as they go along, with an option to turn off ADHD-mode if it makes you rage.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

I don't actually have an issue with tutorials and other things, as long as they are optional and not too long. With improved graphics came improved UIs and better resolutions... and what else? What other positive implementation to gaming in general has happened in the past 8 years? What good things has all this technology done for us?

But like I said, my main point was aries is a fag. If you like DA for the decent combat system (and horrible encounter design) that's fine, but don't pretend that the story is anything but utter shit.

 

[Sceptic]

Not mentioning all those Westwoods and Origins

Forget Pandemic, they weren't selling anywhere as much as EA wanted them to. But Westwood and Origins are the ur-examples. EA shut down Westwood just as the millions from RA2 were pouring in, and much earlier on they shut down Origins just as UO was kicking off for good - you know, that cash cow that they are still making money from TWELVE YEARS LATER.

 

[GarfunkeL]

And Bullfrog. Let's not forget Bullfrog.

 

[aries202]

I take many you nerds and geeks here still miss the days of the 1980's where the videomachines (yes, I'm that old ) broke down every three months or so; you also probably miss that you have to actuallu load a game through a cassette to play 3-5 minutes of the game . without the possibility to save.

And no, there's nothing wrong with reading the manual. However, I do like to just start playing and when I get stuck, I refer to the manual... or this place...

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Age_Wiki

 

[Der_Unbekannte]

Not mentioning all those Westwoods and Origins

Forget Pandemic, they weren't selling anywhere as much as EA wanted them to. But Westwood and Origins are the ur-examples. EA shut down Westwood just as the millions from RA2 were pouring in, and much earlier on they shut down Origins just as UO was kicking off for good - you know, that cash cow that they are still making money from TWELVE YEARS LATER.

Did EA actually gave any statement to why they closed them?
I know I raged pretty hard when they closed Westwood, but never heard why they do it.
Maybe they don't want good games to be made, so that their shitty games don't look so horrible in comparison.

 

[Sceptic]

Did EA actually gave any statement to why they closed them?
I know I raged pretty hard when they closed Westwood, but never heard why they do it.

I don't think they ever gave any reason why they shut down Westwood. Might've been some "restructuring" thing. For Origin, they blamed it on the fiasco of U9. I think that's bullshit as I'm pretty sure U9 made enough to be profitable (something that many EA games never achieve). So as far their real reasons we'll never know.