Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

[DJOGamer PT]

 

[Theodora]

From my experience all the communists say Disco Elysium really is all about communism and all the Disco Elysium fans who aren't communists say it has a totally balanced perspective. Personally I can't help but feel the game treats all political ideologies with quite a lot of cynicism

Bingo, inasfar as many of the writers were various shade of leftist or anarchist, they sure as hell don't proselytise it. There's a pretty realistic understanding of why liberalism "won", with no shortage of observations on its own vicious and nasty side (arguably those are even presented as the same thing).

But maybe I just get to say that because of my own tendencies are anarchist, and their presentation in DE basically being "they all got shot".

 

[Sarathiour]

anarchist

they all got shot

Can't blame them for trying to be realistic.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

But maybe I just get to say that because of my own tendencies are anarchist, and their presentation in DE basically being "they all got shot".

 

[Laz Sundays]

Finished Disco finally. Game's a masterpiece and everyone who told this was right. I have a concern regarding final cut - I watched some videos and I don't like the exta voices. Which is a serious problem now, since I cannot make the core game run without graphic glich on a PC that I use while working.

Few things to mention:

Disco is, above all, a point and click adventure. Geniously mixed with rpg elements, but a point & click nevertheless. Why are people failing to mention this? Seems important to point out when recommending the game to another.

I made a 3423 "parody" of myself with Inland empire tagged. There has never been a game or any other medium in my LIFE that made me feel the things I felt on that first run. Which is why it needs to be pointed out that this game may not have the standard replay value for everyone. More like a once a year experience that I'll return to.

Game was made by people with deep understanding of every aspect of our world. Even the drugs are accurate. This genious and competent developer team delivered something so breathtakingly good with this game that it should be fucking studied. Impressive feat. Disco Elysium is without a doubt the best game that came out in decades. Bravo.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Disco is, above all, a point and click adventure. Geniously mixed with rpg elements, but a point & click nevertheless. Why are people failing to mention this? Seems important to point out when recommending the game to another.

because a large portion of this site conflates "game I like" with "RPG"

 

[ItsChon]

DE doesn't fit neatly into either the point and click adventure game category or the roleplaying category. I'd be fine with someone saying "It's like a RPG with a lot of adventure game elements thrown in" or "It's like an adventure game with a lot of RPG elements thrown in". What is strange to me is that considering how fucking weak the RPG genre is, with so few good games being made through the entire history of the genre existing, I don't know why a lover of RPGs wouldn't try to take credit for an actually good game versus making the genre look even more shit by claiming one of the few good games is actually a part of a different genre entirely.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

DE doesn't fit neatly into either the point and click adventure game category or the roleplaying category. I'd be fine with someone saying "It's like a RPG with a lot of adventure game elements thrown in" or "It's like an adventure game with a lot of RPG elements thrown in".

Lets just call it a hybrid then, just as the Spellforce series is an RTS & RPG hybrid.

 

[Theodora]

Game was made by people with deep understanding of every aspect of our world. Even the drugs are accurate.

It's honest, unsanitised; the platonic opposite of Ubisoft execs tripping over themselves to tell people their games "aren't political".

Lets just call it a hybrid then, just as the Spellforce series is an RTS & RPG hybrid.

Hardcore genre formalism is for NERDS and

anyway.

 

[Laz Sundays]

DE is very clearly a point & click. Unless you never played one of these, it's impossible not to see it at the core of the design.

Not looking to argue this too much, calling this a hybrid is also true. It was just really obvious to me that someone expecting rpg and not into p&c would have a harder time digging it, and presenting it as "isometric rpg" may not be the best way of advertising it.

For the lovers of p&c genre and noir, AND Terry Pratchett, I'd recommend an old, valuable gem called Discworld Noir. Terry wrote the script, so it is also technically a canon little noir adventure which his endorsers would and should greatly appreciate. It's like a unique novel of this late and great autor that you haven't read yet. Cheers

 

[Heroic Liberator]

DE is very clearly a point & click. Unless you never played one of these, it's impossible not to see it at the core of the design.

Depends on what you consider to be at the core of DE's design. In terms of moving around, interacting with background objects and picking up items, sure - it's like a point & click; but if we think about the dialogue heavy aspects of it and of its narrative C&C tied to skills and attribute points, then I think of more storyfocused RPGs and hence extend the same labeling to it. Most people who discard the RPG label for it argue that it doesn't have a combat system which is supposedly an integral part of an RPG, but I don't see why that should be the case. Why add a mediocre combat system that's superfluous to the experience being provided? CRPGs at the end of the day are an adaptation into another medium of tabletop RPGs and the latter do not necessarily require combat even when a particular system accounts for it. So if I can have a full campaign of some TTRPG without a single combat encounter (while still rolling dice for other things that impact the narrative which the DM will communicate through dialogue), why can't the same apply to a CRPG adapting that particular style of campaign?

 

[Laz Sundays]

DE is very clearly a point & click. Unless you never played one of these, it's impossible not to see it at the core of the design.

Depends on what you consider to be at the core of DE's design. In terms of moving around, interacting with background objects and picking up items, sure - it's like a point & click; but if we think about the dialogue heavy aspects of it and of its narrative C&C tied to skills and attribute points, then I think of more storyfocused RPGs and hence extend the same labeling to it. Most people who discard the RPG label for it argue that it doesn't have a combat system which is supposedly an integral part of an RPG, but I don't see why that should be the case. Why add a mediocre combat system that's superfluous to the experience being provided? CRPGs at the end of the day are an adaptation into another medium of tabletop RPGs and the latter do not necessarily require combat even when a particular system accounts for it. So if I can have a full campaign of some TTRPG without a single combat encounter (while still rolling dice for other things that impact the narrative which the DM will communicate through dialogue), why can't the same apply to a CRPG adapting that particular style of campaign?

DE does have combat. It's the same type of combat that p&c games use, and p&cs are story focused roleplays by default. Have you played any of those?

All they did was being creative and added more customization strenghtening the rpg element. U should really try that Discworld Noir thingie I metioned. Same combat and story drive.

 

[Harthwain]

Disco is, above all, a point and click adventure. Geniously mixed with rpg elements, but a point & click nevertheless. Why are people failing to mention this?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/search/42200/?q=adventure&t=post&c[thread]=130284&o=date

DE is very clearly a point & click. Unless you never played one of these, it's impossible not to see it at the core of the design.

Could you elaborate on this? Because to me RPG elements are at the core of the design. Oh, and - please - do be original. I'd really hate to see you rehash the same arguments people always bring up when mentioning Disco Elysium is a point and click adventure.

 

[wishbonetail]

Disco is, above all, a point and click adventure. Geniously mixed with rpg elements, but a point & click nevertheless. Why are people failing to mention this? Seems important to point out when recommending the game to another.

Disco is least of all a point n'click adventure. It doesn't have puzzles, no item manipulations, no challenge whatsoever. All it has are interactions with hotspots through dialogue windows. And story that unfolds itself through dialogs depending on your stats. This is not an adventure desgn.

 

[just]

it's a visual novel

 

[V_K]

Disco is, above all, a point and click adventure. Geniously mixed with rpg elements, but a point & click nevertheless. Why are people failing to mention this? Seems important to point out when recommending the game to another.

Disco is least of all a point n'click adventure. It doesn't have puzzles, no item manipulations, no challenge whatsoever. All it has are interactions with hotspots through dialogue windows. And story that unfolds itself through dialogs depending on your stats. This is not an adventure desgn.

We even had a thread about it.
Unfortunately, in Codex argo, it seems, Adventure has come to mean "walking sim where you don't direclty control the walking".

 

[rusty_shackleford]

it's a visual novel

Digital gamebooks(AoD, Disco Elysium, and so forth) differ from visual novels, but are close enough.

 

[Laz Sundays]

Disco is, above all, a point and click adventure. Geniously mixed with rpg elements, but a point & click nevertheless. Why are people failing to mention this?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/search/42200/?q=adventure&t=post&c[thread]=130284&o=date

DE is very clearly a point & click. Unless you never played one of these, it's impossible not to see it at the core of the design.

Could you elaborate on this? Because to me RPG elements are at the core of the design. Oh, and - please - do be original. I'd really hate to see you rehash the same arguments people always bring up when mentioning Disco Elysium is a point and click adventure.

No, I couldn't. I was specific when saying "not looking to arge too much". If I argued opinions and impressions that come natural to me, I'd be a part of codex inventory. This is what I see. That is what you see. None of us developed this game. If you want truths, go to the sauce. Ask them, and post answers. I'm just a passenger.

 

[Laz Sundays]

I don't always go here just because I'm bored. Again, there is this, hm, visual novel called Discworld Noir where you roleplay through the fully voiced story of a jaded detective that has a severe case of lycanthropy. No puzzles, just progression through discovery and advances through chokepoints in story, much like DE. Fun and innovative game where you switch between human and werewolf stance, of which the latter is really brilliant since scents that you can track ingame have unique colors.

Journal is exactly the same like DE's, and it's somewhat isometric. You point on things or directions with cursor and click to interact. You get a cutscene every now and then when something unique happens.

 

[Harthwain]

No, I couldn't. I was specific when saying "not looking to arge too much". If I argued opinions and impressions that come natural to me, I'd be a part of codex inventory. This is what I see. That is what you see. None of us developed this game. If you want truths, go to the sauce. Ask them, and post answers. I'm just a passenger.

You're wrong. On multiple levels. It's not just my opinion (although I think so). You see, I am not asking you for "truths". I have already seen the truth, because I read the developers' devblog, so I possess all the answers on the matter. I am asking you for your opinion, because I am curious why you reached the conclussion you mentioned.

I doubt it's just because of presentation, because by the same token you could call Planescape: Torment a point & click adventure game too, as it is - likewise - an isometric game. And I could also mention adventure games where you play in first person perspective.

By the way, here is the link to my previous post containing links to the relevant devblog posts concerning the design of Disco Elysium (and how it's centered around RPG) in case anyone is interested:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/d20-is-terrible-so-where-are-the-2d6-crpgs.141413/post-7673996

 

[Maxie]

it's a boring piece of shit for boring incels who'd like to act out their political obsessions
honestly i forced myself through day 1 just to insult the game better and barely made it, spent three weeks in intensive care

 

[Laz Sundays]

No, I couldn't. I was specific when saying "not looking to arge too much". If I argued opinions and impressions that come natural to me, I'd be a part of codex inventory. This is what I see. That is what you see. None of us developed this game. If you want truths, go to the sauce. Ask them, and post answers. I'm just a passenger.

You're wrong. On multiple levels. It's not just my opinion (although I think so). You see, I am not asking you for "truths". I have already seen the truth, because I read the developers' devblog, so I possess all the answers on the matter. I am asking you for your opinion, because I am curious why you reached the conclussion you mentioned.

I doubt it's just because of presentation, because by the same token you could call Planescape: Torment a point & click adventure game too, as it is - likewise - an isometric game. And I could also mention adventure games where you play in first person perspective.

By the way, here is the link to my previous post containing links to the relevant devblog posts concerning the design of Disco Elysium (and how it's centered around RPG) in case anyone is interested:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/d20-is-terrible-so-where-are-the-2d6-crpgs.141413/post-7673996

"Your'e wrong" and "I'm asking your opinion" do not compute. I gave you my opinion and why I reached that conclusion. It feels and behaves like many p&cs I've played. Back in the day when humans were familiar with stories like Emperor's New Robe, we called these point and click adventures. Depth and other aspects of the game were irrelevant to this core impression. Visual novel was a movie. I'm a dead end when it comes to debating these.

 

[V_K]

Discworld Noir

It's a very weird way to argue that something belongs to the Adventure genre by comparing it to a game whose whole PR discourse revolved around how it does away with the conventions of the Adventure genre.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Discworld Noir is actually full of puzzles. Most of them are inventory-based puzzles. It's just that this inventory is partially disguised as notebook entries (as well as a collection of scents). But the principle is the same. Click on the entry 'corpse hanging upside down', select it as an item, and apply it to the strange writing on the wall. The strange inscription immediately ceases to be strange, because it becomes clear that it is simply written upside down. The same with scents.

Pretty typical P&C gameplay. There is nothing similar to this in Disco Elysium.

 

[Laz Sundays]

Discworld Noir

It's a very weird way to argue that something belongs to the Adventure genre by comparing it to a game whose whole PR discourse revolved around how it does away with the conventions of the Adventure genre.

Strange. To me, DE breaks the conventions of adventure p&c in almost the same way. Breaking the convention does not make it a less p&c, neither did it made it for DN.

Discworld Noir is actually full of puzzles. Most of them are inventory-based puzzles. It's just that this inventory is partially disguised as notebook entries (as well as a collection of scents). But the principle is the same. Click on the entry 'corpse hanging upside down', select it as an item, and apply it to the strange writing on the wall. The strange inscription immediately ceases to be strange, because it becomes clear that it is simply written upside down. The same with scents.

Pretty typical P&C gameplay. There is nothing similar to this in Disco Elysium.

by that description, Disco has exact same "puzzles" that you solve through interactions and examining stuff from inventory so you can progress further. I get it, you want it to be an RPG badly. It ain't, 70% of it is p&c adventure.