Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

[Haba]

There is nothing a tabletop game can do that a video game can't if the rules are the same

This has to be the single most retarded thing said in the thread so far, and this is a 78+ Codex thread.

Imagine creating an account a new alt just to shit on an indie game.

Sawyer, is that you?

 

[the mole]

Literally the rules determine the game, basketball is the same game played outdoors or indoors if all the rules that govern it are the same

 

[Verylittlefishes]

How to rename my profile to Cuno Cares

 

[ItsChon]

You know what I just realized that I'm missing?

A Codex.

You meet tons of people in the game, and you're expected to keep track of them, know their names, understand the references. But I'm absolutely fucking useless when it comes to names, and can forget the names of people while still talking to them immediately after an introduction. I went to school with people for 5 years or more and I still manage to forget their names.

For example, Logic just chimed in about a connection to something Easy Leo said.

I have absolutely no idea who Easy Leo is. Drawing a complete blank. I can open up the journal, the thought cabinet, the character sheet all I want, and it won't help, but what I really need is a codex with a few notes on each person that I meet, even if it's just their name, face, location, and something like "Chairman of such and such" or "Racist lorry driver".

WTF, I said this like 20 pages ago and no one said shit...

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Literally the rules determine the game, basketball is the same game played outdoors or indoors if all the rules that govern it are the same

Get a load of Dr. Dunning Kruger over here. Jesus CHRIST you’re a fucking moron.

 

[the mole]

Literally the rules determine the game, basketball is the same game played outdoors or indoors if all the rules that govern it are the same

Get a load of Dr. Dunning Kruger over here. Jesus CHRIST you’re a fucking moron.

Basketball is still basketball whether you play it indoors or outdoors, nice ad hominim attack though

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Literally the rules determine the game, basketball is the same game played outdoors or indoors if all the rules that govern it are the same

Get a load of Dr. Dunning Kruger over here. Jesus CHRIST you’re a fucking moron.

Basketball is still basketball whether you play it indoors or outdoors, nice ad hominim attack though

I’ve already given you all the arguments an intelligent person needs to shut the fuck up and admit he’s wrong. Instead you keep repeating the same strawman nonsense that only an absolute fucking braindead autistic travesty of a human would make. The only thing left is the ignore button. Buh bye, dumbfuck!

 

[the mole]

Literally the rules determine the game, basketball is the same game played outdoors or indoors if all the rules that govern it are the same

Get a load of Dr. Dunning Kruger over here. Jesus CHRIST you’re a fucking moron.

Basketball is still basketball whether you play it indoors or outdoors, nice ad hominim attack though

I’ve already given you all the arguments an intelligent person needs to shut the fuck up and admit he’s wrong. Instead you keep repeating the same strawman nonsense that only an absolute fucking braindead autistic travesty of a human would make. The only thing left is the ignore button. Buh bye, dumbfuck!

You haven't given an argument yet

If the rules are the same it doesn't matter if the character is a virtual figurine or a figurine on a table in your home

 

[ItsChon]

You haven't given an argument yet

If the rules are the same it doesn't matter if the character is a virtual figurine or a figurine on a table in your home

For real, can you shut the fuck up? I've always been a big proponent of not ignoring anyone but you're so fucking stupid it's putting my convictions to the test. The difference with games and tabletop RPGs is that if you choose to go down a path or do something that wasn't explicitly programmed into the game, even if it's within the ruleset, you won't be able to. That's the difference between a video game and a tabletop. Now, will you stop leeching off the Starbucks wifi and go back to picking cans from the garbage bin like the rest of the homeless?

 

[the mole]

If the rules are the same between both settings then it's the same game, one you pretend something is happening visually, in the other something actually happens visually, if the system and math functions the same then it's the same

 

[Prime Junta]

the mole Have you ever played tabletop RPGs, or are otherwise familiar with what it's like?

 

[the mole]

the mole Have you ever played tabletop RPGs, or are otherwise familiar with what it's like?

It's a game based on numbers, the dm is the lead dev and sets up the encounters, if the rules are the same then you could have the same experience in a virtual game

 

[Tigranes]

I don't think he has the requisite intelligence to play any RPG, really

 

[ItsChon]

If the rules are the same between both settings then it's the same game, one you pretend something is happening visually, in the other something actually happens visually, if the system and math functions the same then it's the same

Holy shit, this is why you were fucking homeless! Something doesn't actually happen visually in the game if it isn't programmed into it. Here's an example. There are plenty of buildings in various RPGs that you can't enter because the game doesn't give you an option too, while if you were in a tabletop RPG, you could enter into whatever building you like assuming you pass the necessary checks to get in if the door is locked, or whatever. The question is not about whether or not it's possible to do the same things in a RPG as in a tabletop, it's a matter of programming all the possible things that can be done, which is impossible. Hence, the very real and relevant difference.

The more we engage with this troll alt the more we encourage it. Can we just stop fucking responding to it?

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The difference is video game is finite.

 

[the mole]

If the rules are the same between both settings then it's the same game, one you pretend something is happening visually, in the other something actually happens visually, if the system and math functions the same then it's the same

Holy shit, this is why you were fucking homeless! Something doesn't actually happen visually in the game if it isn't programmed into it. Here's an example. There are plenty of buildings in various RPGs that you can't enter because the game doesn't give you an option too, while if you were in a tabletop RPG, you could enter into whatever building you like assuming you pass the necessary checks to get in if the door is locked, or whatever. The question is not about whether or not it's possible to do the same things in a RPG as in a tabletop, it's a matter of programming all the possible things that can be done, which is impossible. Hence, the very real and relevant difference.

The more we engage with this troll alt the more we encourage it. Can we just stop fucking responding to it?

The difference is video game is finite.

A human beings time is limited in tabletop as well, what makes them different, a dev could allow you to explore that building in a virtual setting as well

Playing basketball outside isn't very different than playing inside, they have the same rules

 

[†††]

Can you fucktard at least discuss this in a new thread? all your ramblings are off topic

 

[ItsChon]

Just ignore it and it'll go away. There's no way I'm going to let this cretin make me abandon my convictions.

 

[the mole]

I don't think he has the requisite intelligence to play any RPG, really

Let's talk iq scores

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Anyway, I find it funny how my pre-launch expectations all turned out backwards. I thought the mechanics look fun, but I was worried about quality of writing, possible bugfest and supernatural elements in a cop game.

Turns out the writing is solid, game is polished, supernatural elements are often the best. But there's tons of little things that annoy me in the overall gameplay and level design.

 

[Prime Junta]

It's a game based on numbers, the dm is the lead dev and sets up the encounters, if the rules are the same then you could have the same experience in a virtual game

That's not at all how most tabletop RPGs work, and certainly not how D&D was intended to work by Gary Gygax and the others who got the ball rolling. The rules -- numbers etcetera -- are there to structure things and give people something to do. The Dungeon Master's Guide explicitly defines "rules lawyering" as being against the rules, and gives the DM pointers on how to deal with it.

The meat of the game is in storytelling and improvisation, the DM and the players riffing off each other, pretending to be characters in a story, and making the story happen around them. It's totally possible to have completely rule-free tabletop sessions -- I ran one for Delterius in the shitbox the other day as a matter of fact.

Disco Elysium attempts the impossible, namely to recreate the feeling of a tabletop gaming session in a computer game. This is impossible. It simply cannot be done. Of any game I have actually played, however, this is the closest it gets to it, warts and all. And -- the "metric" system used for the game would really have to be radically changed to work at all in a tabletop session, because there's no way those internal voices could work there.

Spoiler

Perhaps this is also why I'm pretty forgiving of plot holes and such. Tabletop campaigns always end up with fairly humongous plot holes if you look at them closely enough, because they're not really plotted -- it's people improvising and riffing off each other. If they're good enough it can make for hellaciously good stories and sometimes remarkably vivid settings, but damn will there ever be leaps of logic, plot holes, and other inconsistencies. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

[the mole]

Just ignore it and it'll go away. There's no way I'm going to let this cretin make me abandon my convictions.

Asshurt, the dm is the lead dev of a game, in a tabletop you have to pretend something visual happens, yet in a virtual game the dm can actually show you something visually, the same experience can be made in both settings

 

[Prime Junta]

Asshurt, the dm is the lead dev of a game, in a tabletop you have to pretend something visual happens, yet in a virtual game the dm can actually show you something visually, the same experience can be made in both settings

Computers are shit at improvisation.

 

[the mole]

It's a game based on numbers, the dm is the lead dev and sets up the encounters, if the rules are the same then you could have the same experience in a virtual game

That's not at all how most tabletop RPGs work, and certainly not how D&D was intended to work by Gary Gygax and the others who got the ball rolling. The rules -- numbers etcetera -- are there to structure things and give people something to do. The Dungeon Master's Guide explicitly defines "rules lawyering" as being against the rules, and gives the DM pointers on how to deal with it.

The meat of the game is in storytelling and improvisation, the DM and the players riffing off each other, pretending to be characters in a story, and making the story happen around them. It's totally possible to have completely rule-free tabletop sessions -- I ran one for Delterius in the shitbox the other day as a matter of fact.

Disco Elysium attempts the impossible, namely to recreate the feeling of a tabletop gaming session in a computer game. This is impossible. It simply cannot be done. Of any game I have actually played, however, this is the closest it gets to it, warts and all. And -- the "metric" system used for the game would really have to be radically changed to work at all in a tabletop session, because there's no way those internal voices could work there.

Spoiler

Perhaps this is also why I'm pretty forgiving of plot holes and such. Tabletop campaigns always end up with fairly humongous plot holes if you look at them closely enough, because they're not really plotted -- it's people improvising and riffing off each other. If they're good enough it can make for hellaciously good stories and sometimes remarkably vivid settings, but damn will there ever be leaps of logic, plot holes, and other inconsistencies. It's just the nature of the beast.

I have a feeling you're attaching more credence to feelings then facts

All art is improvisational when it's being created that's what creation is, you improvise something into existence.

A game in virtual form is the improvisation of an idea made into graphics, that same idea can be in both table top games and video games

If the underlying system is the same you're playing the same thing a dm could create in tabletop, one of them has graphics and sound design though

 

[Prime Junta]

A game in virtual form is the improvisation of an idea made into graphics, that same idea can be in both table top games and video games

Except that in tabletop, the creation happens as you play. With a computer game, everything has to be designed and created beforehand. The player can never step outside those bounds.

If the underlying system is the same you're playing the same thing a dm could create in tabletop, one of them has graphics and sound design though

Say we just crawled out of Irenicus's dungeon. In a tabletop game, our party could decide just to say fuck Imoen, never liked her anyway, let's sneak on the first ship to Chult, then throw the captain overboard and be pirates. Can't do that in BG2.