Viable yes, fun, no.
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Arkane Dishonored 2 - Emily and Corvo's Serkonan Vacation
- Thread starter prodigydancer
- Start date
Viable yes, fun, no.
The fun is in the challenge of figuring out how to play it in such a restricted way, but in a general sense it's not traditionally "fun," no. Depends on how you look at it I guess. In any event I would NEVER advise someone play with no powers (or pacifist) their first go.
The last Deus Ex's prison DLC was super fun with no enhancements though, because it was designed more around that as an equal playstyle.
The last Deus Ex's prison DLC was super fun with no enhancements though, because it was designed more around that as an equal playstyle.
Terenty
Liturgist
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2018
- Messages
- 1,467
Dishonored 2 turned out to be a great great game. I had thought it was the same shit as the first one only bigger, but i couldnt be more wrong. The game tremendously improves on everything from Dishonored 1 and the level design is simply out of this world.
I honestly think if Warren Spector played this game from start to finish he would immediately cease SS 3 development and throw in the towel. No way in hell he could produce something on that level.
I honestly think if Warren Spector played this game from start to finish he would immediately cease SS 3 development and throw in the towel. No way in hell he could produce something on that level.
Everything, except story and tone. The story could have been tighter and more dramatic if they focused on an Emily-only story. But Arkane chose gameplay over story and it's okay.
Terenty
Liturgist
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2018
- Messages
- 1,467
Yeah, the story is just there to give some context for gameplay like the first one. But for some reason i liked characters here more than previous game. Maybe because levels associated with them are much more elaborate and flashed out.
I don't agree 2 is a lot better than 1. I kind of prefer 1's level design and style. I have only played through 2 once so far though and played through 1 like five times, so maybe that opinion will adjust. I agree both excel at creating a world and tone, rather than traditional narrative, but I'm fine with this for videogames for the most part.
ebPD8PePfC
Savant
- Joined
- May 13, 2018
- Messages
- 225
Finished it as Emily / highest difficulty / stealth. It's better than the first game in almost every way.
- Story is rehashed. I was fine with it because I played it for the gameplay, but I can see how this would trouble some people.
- The environmental storytelling is great, the actual story and characters are quite bland.
- The structure of the game is rehashed as well. It wasn't very good the first time, with a series of isolated levels which all shared the same goal and approach. Dishonored 2 sadly mimicked this.
- The level design is really good given the limitations they took upon themselves (small and highly detailed environments). So even though each level has the same goal and the same feeling, it's still really fun to go through them. The Clockwork Mansion is an obvious highlight.
- The game shouldn't have had a dedicated stealth mode. It doesn't add much to the gameplay. Walking and running would have been fine from a gameplay perspective, with stealth-ing being the default thing the player does when standing still in the shadows, or hiding behind objects.
- The enemies' hearing sense doesn't work properly, at least in the way it relates to the player's movement.
- Similar to the first game, stealthing the game is a restriction that's never imposed or encouraged by the mechanics of the game. It's purely a desicion on the part of the player, rewarded with a "better" story outcome by the game. But as others have said this isn't a very good stealth game, so the players aren't funneled to the most fun way to play it (like an action game). This is further compounded by the insistence to track kills ("Chaos") over the entire game, which make the player stick to one playstyle, violent or non-violent, and never changing it mid game. Changing playstyles is punished by the game, which is obviously not a good idea.
- I don't think there should be a distinction between action and stealth in general. Stealth should be a viable strategy when the players encounter enemies they don't want to face in the open (that's why stealth exists to begin with!). So either go with strong enemies (the witches are good, but they should be far far more common), or increase the number of enemies (you should probably kill a guard quietly when the nearby room has twenty soldiers). In practice the player is almost never put in a bad spot where using stealth is a good option.
- The art design is great. Every object has so much care given to it, it makes the world very fun to explore.
- Sadly the levels would be far better if they picked a simpler graphic style and could go for bigger levels. It wouldn't sell though.
- It's not so much of a problem as a wasted opportunity, but like Prey this game offers an interesting virtual world to explore without the reactivity to make the player feel like he's a part of it, rather than a silent murderhobo that goes through a virtual corridor inside it. The world is a thing you observe around you, but the interactions with it are so limited it never feels like you are an actual character in it.
I played it to the end. It was enjoyable, certainly worth the 10$ to support Arkane. It would be more fun if I played it like the first game, trying to speed run it while killing everyone in creative ways. That's when the mechanics shine. The stealthy alternative is far better than the first game, but they haven't changed the core issues that made stealth bad in the first game.
- Story is rehashed. I was fine with it because I played it for the gameplay, but I can see how this would trouble some people.
- The environmental storytelling is great, the actual story and characters are quite bland.
- The structure of the game is rehashed as well. It wasn't very good the first time, with a series of isolated levels which all shared the same goal and approach. Dishonored 2 sadly mimicked this.
- The level design is really good given the limitations they took upon themselves (small and highly detailed environments). So even though each level has the same goal and the same feeling, it's still really fun to go through them. The Clockwork Mansion is an obvious highlight.
- The game shouldn't have had a dedicated stealth mode. It doesn't add much to the gameplay. Walking and running would have been fine from a gameplay perspective, with stealth-ing being the default thing the player does when standing still in the shadows, or hiding behind objects.
- The enemies' hearing sense doesn't work properly, at least in the way it relates to the player's movement.
- Similar to the first game, stealthing the game is a restriction that's never imposed or encouraged by the mechanics of the game. It's purely a desicion on the part of the player, rewarded with a "better" story outcome by the game. But as others have said this isn't a very good stealth game, so the players aren't funneled to the most fun way to play it (like an action game). This is further compounded by the insistence to track kills ("Chaos") over the entire game, which make the player stick to one playstyle, violent or non-violent, and never changing it mid game. Changing playstyles is punished by the game, which is obviously not a good idea.
- I don't think there should be a distinction between action and stealth in general. Stealth should be a viable strategy when the players encounter enemies they don't want to face in the open (that's why stealth exists to begin with!). So either go with strong enemies (the witches are good, but they should be far far more common), or increase the number of enemies (you should probably kill a guard quietly when the nearby room has twenty soldiers). In practice the player is almost never put in a bad spot where using stealth is a good option.
- The art design is great. Every object has so much care given to it, it makes the world very fun to explore.
- Sadly the levels would be far better if they picked a simpler graphic style and could go for bigger levels. It wouldn't sell though.
- It's not so much of a problem as a wasted opportunity, but like Prey this game offers an interesting virtual world to explore without the reactivity to make the player feel like he's a part of it, rather than a silent murderhobo that goes through a virtual corridor inside it. The world is a thing you observe around you, but the interactions with it are so limited it never feels like you are an actual character in it.
I played it to the end. It was enjoyable, certainly worth the 10$ to support Arkane. It would be more fun if I played it like the first game, trying to speed run it while killing everyone in creative ways. That's when the mechanics shine. The stealthy alternative is far better than the first game, but they haven't changed the core issues that made stealth bad in the first game.
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vortex
Fabulous Optimist
While Clockwork mansion is fantastic, I find the best Good doctor and Crack in the slab.
Good doctor mission had eerie mystery all around it. Addermire institute is work of art and grandeur architecture.
Crack in the slab mission is slow burn but interesting time shift of space makes it remarkable.
Arkane made a love letter to immersive sim genre. D2 is unparalleled to anything I saw. I hope Dishonored 3 arrives soon.
Good doctor mission had eerie mystery all around it. Addermire institute is work of art and grandeur architecture.
Crack in the slab mission is slow burn but interesting time shift of space makes it remarkable.
Arkane made a love letter to immersive sim genre. D2 is unparalleled to anything I saw. I hope Dishonored 3 arrives soon.
Multi-headed Cow
Arcane
I hope so to, but I really wish they didn't do away with/explain the Outsider in the Dishonored 2 DLC. Dishonored 2 does feel like the high point of the series though, every level feels extremely unique compared to all the others and usually has some special wrinkles to it beyond just flavor and tone, and the powers feel a little better than the first game. Whole series is great though, they all have kinda shit stories but they grew on me like crazy. Started out hating Dishonored 1 since I went in wanting a Thief game, but coming to terms with killing guards and not just trying to ghost and stealth levels upped my enjoyment tremendously. Much more fun to play on hard and play it semi-ironman. Reload if you die, but keep trucking if you make noise and then end up killing 30 people. There's more effort in the combat in Dishonored than there is (Mechanically at least. I know the level designers did a great job of it especially in 2) in the stealth.
vortex
Fabulous Optimist
Outsider DLC is the end of the Corvo's and Emily's timeline. I dunno if they'll kill them off in D3 and start new chapter.
There is a bolt which confuses the guards and lets you play stealthily again. But I don't play as pacifist but as a stealth-assassin. If I mess up, alarm was disabled and my blown cover is isolated.
even if they made it i doubt it will be the same without raph
Wunderbar
Arcane
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2015
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- 8,825
Dishonored 2 was made without Raphael.
raph still worked up to Prey which precedes dishonored 2. he didn't work on dishonored 2 DLC death to the outsider and it shows everything about that game is pretty mediocre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphaël_Colantonio
Wunderbar
Arcane
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- Nov 15, 2015
- Messages
- 8,825
https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/dishonored-2/credits
Raphael is mentioned three times:
- as a president of Arkane Lyon;
- as a composer of Brigmore Lullaby;
- in special thanks.
Dishonored 2 was Harvey's project and Prey was Raphael's.
Death of the outsider turned out meh because it was basically a season pass for Dishonored 2 cobbled together into a standalone game after Dishonored 2 bombed in sales.
oh yeah you're right my bad. raph is only credited as "very special thanks"
https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/dishonored-2/credits
Child of Malkav
Erudite
They should just go to Pandyssia already though the next one might be in Tyvia as it was mentioned/expected so many times.
The original leak of D2 (revealed as the Darkness of Tyvia) had a main objective to annihilate the Outsider, but I wish they kept that and made the entire game revolve around that instead of rehashing the story of D1. Maybe find out about the Cult's existence, investigate them, find out they have the knife and learn of its importance, discover the Oracular Order, investigate how they know about the Cult, the knife and most importantly how they know of a physical place in the mountains where you can access the Void from. Maybe talk and develop the story about one of the High Overseers mentioned in D1 (the mission where you have to take Campbell out, in one of the rooms with urns containing ashes of previous High Overseers) that fought an physical incarnation of the Outsider. Or give more details about what Granny Rags found on Pandyssia in her trip.
Or detail the Great Burning, a march of death and destruction led by a Marked One. Or what's the reason that there can be only 8 marked people in the world at any time. Or the connection between the continent and the whales (ignoring that it has a shape a bit like that a whale) and the prophecy around them.
They created such an interesting universe that they can make a game pretty much about any of these ideas.
The original leak of D2 (revealed as the Darkness of Tyvia) had a main objective to annihilate the Outsider, but I wish they kept that and made the entire game revolve around that instead of rehashing the story of D1. Maybe find out about the Cult's existence, investigate them, find out they have the knife and learn of its importance, discover the Oracular Order, investigate how they know about the Cult, the knife and most importantly how they know of a physical place in the mountains where you can access the Void from. Maybe talk and develop the story about one of the High Overseers mentioned in D1 (the mission where you have to take Campbell out, in one of the rooms with urns containing ashes of previous High Overseers) that fought an physical incarnation of the Outsider. Or give more details about what Granny Rags found on Pandyssia in her trip.
Or detail the Great Burning, a march of death and destruction led by a Marked One. Or what's the reason that there can be only 8 marked people in the world at any time. Or the connection between the continent and the whales (ignoring that it has a shape a bit like that a whale) and the prophecy around them.
They created such an interesting universe that they can make a game pretty much about any of these ideas.
Wunderbar
Arcane
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2015
- Messages
- 8,825
series is known under the name "dishonored", which means there must be a dishonored person in each game.
They're making Deathloop. After that, you can wait another 3-4 years for D3.
Bethesda had much bigger bombs under its wings, and they never closed down a studio as a consequence.
Wunderbar
Arcane
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Dishonored 2 - bomb;
Prey - bomb, Prince of Failure resigned;
Deathloop - something weird with 0 information whether it is going to be a singleplayer immersive sim or some multiplayer-focused mtx-ridden crap, possible bomb.
Three bombs in a row and there will be blood.
Prey - bomb, Prince of Failure resigned;
Deathloop - something weird with 0 information whether it is going to be a singleplayer immersive sim or some multiplayer-focused mtx-ridden crap, possible bomb.
Three bombs in a row and there will be blood.
Child of Malkav
Erudite
They also have more resources and a braindead fan base that buys anything they put out. That helps, you know.
Child of Malkav
Erudite
They could sneak a scenario like that in the story somewhere but it shouldn't be the main focus.
And there are quite a few games out there that have a disconnection between the title and what you actually do in the game.
Dishonored 2 and Prey didn't bomb - they were just slow sellers.
Evil Within otoh was a real bomb, and they made a sequel. Don't forget about id Soft and the Rage/Doom fiasco. Still around today.
Wunderbar
Arcane
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both games had abysmal start (due to technical issues and Bethesda's stupid review policy). Later they bounced back, but it doesn't matter since they had 66% and 75% discounts.
no, actually. Pete Hines said it sold well enough to warrant a sequel.
Sequel was a real bomb though.
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