Baldur's Gate Do Infinity Engine-style RPGs need inventory constraints?

[ArchAngel]

Best inventory system is in games like xcom or xenonauts. I want an Rpg that has such an inventory system where you are even limited by size of areas on body and all items have inventory size instead of taking always just one slot.
In addition to that I would let gold have weight. But I would let players exchange it for gems and other lighter trade items and get carts and mules to carry stuff but have mechanics that can destroy those and if you leave stuff around a chance someone took it.

 

[Vikter]

I like inventory management to a certain degree, because it makes towns, hubs and merchants a psychological relief due to the "now I'm gonna sell all of my useless shit that I've been carrying to make space for more useless shit that I will end up selling again", but having to micromanage space is really annoying, and having a stash usually just makes me throw everything at it and forget it. Obtaining a way to expand your inventory and making that fairly common is ideal for me, as well as tying the limits to the character's strength stats.

 

[Keldryn]

Anybody who thinks that inventory management in BG was a chore needs to play (or replay) Ultima VII.

 

[Excidium II]

They need to get rid of icons before anything else.

 

[Neanderthal]

Anybody who thinks that inventory management in BG was a chore needs to play (or replay) Ultima VII.

I quite liked the U7 inventory, very intuitive, you knew where everything went at once and could organise everything in bags, packs, and so on. I had bags for coin, food and drink, reagents and left my backpack for miscellaneous stuff. At the start it was a pain but a little organisation and management and it fairly much maintained itself. The abacuus, pocketwatch, map and sextant were of course kept close at hand as they were invaluable.

 

[Ninjerk]

I rather enjoyed JA2 1.13 inventory additions.

 

[Carrion]

Nobody's forcing you to vacuum. You can pretend the stash isn't there and play, or disable it in the options menu if you can.

Except that in order to have a somewhat balanced economy you need to go for one or the other, or include some rather complex system of supply and demand into your game. In PoE you may be carrying around literally hundreds of swords, maces, shields, helmets, armors and other pieces of equipment at a time and then take them all to a vendor that will buy everything. Either the OCD hoarder will get filthy rich (like in PoE), or the guy who doesn't use the stash will always be short on coin (not sure if this also happens in PoE). It's a nightmare to try to accommodate both playstyles, and it's definitely not something that can just be left on the player's conscience because the devs were lazy hacks.

Huge inventory sizes are almost always there because of "convenience", but the games that allow you to carry around a ridiculous amount of stuff are actually the most tedious ones. You don't need to think what you pick up, so you can mindlessly loot everything that isn't bolted to the ground, which removes thinking from the equation and turns looting into work, a mechanical process you repeat after every fight or when walking into a new room. In theory looting is fun because it's the reward you get from winning a fight or discovering a new area, and also because finding great loot kind of is the point of adventuring, but in practice it's often more of a necessary evil, brainless busywork that only serves to fuck up the pacing of the game. You might say it's at least quicker to loot stuff in this way, not having to consider what is worth picking up and what is best left on the ground, but you'll need to deal with the same problem anyway, just later when it's time to sell some stuff, or when you actually want to find something useful in your inventory. This problem is by far the worst in games with a "convenient" autoloot system, as you'll end up having to deal with stuff that you never chose to pick up in the first place.

Inventory management can be enjoyable when there's decision-making involved, and more often than not limitations are a blessing rather than a curse. You only pick up stuff that you think is valuable or potentially useful, you always know exactly what you're carrying and can find the right items when need arises, you're encouraged to use stuff to make space for new items, you don't need to stop to loot every single enemy because it's free money, you can have a tighter in-game economy with less inflated prices, and you generally need to use your brain a lot more and make strategic choices, such as choosing what items to take with you to a particual area rather than being able to carry around the entire contents of the local weapons shop. In short, with limitations inventory management can be made into an important and natural part of the game rather than being just some bloated monstrosity you're forced to deal with every once in a while.

Unlimited inventories are only really tolerable in games where there's not that much loot to begin with.

 

[Keldryn]

I quite liked the U7 inventory, very intuitive, you knew where everything went at once and could organise everything in bags, packs, and so on. I had bags for coin, food and drink, reagents and left my backpack for miscellaneous stuff. At the start it was a pain but a little organisation and management and it fairly much maintained itself. The abacuus, pocketwatch, map and sextant were of course kept close at hand as they were invaluable.

I liked it as well, and I agree with everything you just said. But it was more labor intensive than BG. I would try to keep things organized, but I would periodically find a nice open space and empty out everyone's backpacks on the ground so I could more easily sort things. That was oddly kind of fun, actually.

 

[Jools]

I'm always debated about inventory management.

On one hand, it is always pretty much un-realistic at best. Even the weight constrictions are ludicrously high, and so are the "spacial" ones. I think trash mobs should stop dropping their junk, and just drop some more gold instead: this would have the same effect on the player's economy, but without the retarded carrying around 12 sub-par quality longswords only to sell them at some vendor.

In fact, I'd love a very hardcore inventory system, made with "realism" in mind. Big stuff in (or "RP" "Strapped-to") the backpack, gold stacking in "pouches" (a-la Diablo!), each of which takes up inventory space and weight, the same goes for gems. And the same with everything else, crafting materials, random junk, etc. I don't see why the inventory isn't used as a more tactical part of the gameplay, rather than a popamole bottomless stash for gear and money.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Why just Infinity-Engine? Any RPG should have reasonable inventory constraints. Fuck that "let the player carry a shitton of everything so that his poor console-addled mind doesn't have to make decisions" dev mentality.

 

[veevoir]

PoE unlimited stash - gods no.
Party inventory (limit + sum of all members limit) - why not. Eases the stupid pain of messing around with who carries what in order not to go over limits, why provides no gameplay value - for all intents and purposes in IE games inventory did work like party inventory, except for having to look at 6 screens and 6 weight limits instead of one.

In fact, I'd love a very hardcore inventory system, made with "realism" in mind. Big stuff in (or "RP" "Strapped-to") the backpack, gold stacking in "pouches" (a-la Diablo!), each of which takes up inventory space and weight, the same goes for gems. And the same with everything else, crafting materials, random junk, etc. I don't see why the inventory isn't used as a more tactical part of the gameplay, rather than a popamole bottomless stash for gear and money.

So, basically, JA2. But in there the combat was also TB and who has what and is able to use it was of importance. Unlike many games (looking at you , RtWP) that allow you to exchange inventory to free during combat.

 

[Animal]

If I was a dungeon dwelling adventurer scavenging for gold pieces, I'd haul around a bag with stuff in it. I'd literally drag it with me, because, you know, I need the monies.

When a monster came along (or a pack of hungry wolves), I'd let go of the bag and just fight them unencumbered! Pretty easy to pull off!

What I find unrealistic is leaving behind the riches just because they don't fit in my pants.

 

[ArchAngel]

If I was a dungeon dwelling adventurer scavenging for gold pieces, I'd haul around a bag with stuff in it. I'd literally drag it with me, because, you know, I need the monies.

When a monster came along (or a pack of hungry wolves), I'd let go of the bag and just fight them unencumbered! Pretty easy to pull off!

What I find unrealistic is leaving behind the riches just because they don't fit in my pants.

Bags slow you down, they prevent Stealth and during combat you can trip on it or destroy it. You also get tired faster and they take part of your concentration making your easier to ambush.

And in PnP and real life you only get one life.

 

[Animal]

Bags slow you down, they prevent Stealth and during combat you can trip on it or destroy it. You also get tired faster and they take part of your concentration making your easier to ambush.

And in PnP and real life you only get one life.

Yes, but I'd clear an area, come back to drag the bag, drop it and scout/clear next area, and so on and so on.

I'd be all for a system where you'd haul a bag/cart of stuff with penalties, but be able to drop it and resume after fights.

The worst scenario is not being able to carry the stuff, unless there's no expectation of finding merchants or no need for making gold.

 

[Jools]

Why just Infinity-Engine? Any RPG should have reasonable inventory constraints. Fuck that "let the player carry a shitton of everything so that his poor console-addled mind doesn't have to make decisions" dev mentality.

Yeah. I too, in my comment, was thinking more of "all RPGS" rather than just IE ones...

 

[Neanderthal]

If I was a dungeon dwelling adventurer scavenging for gold pieces, I'd haul around a bag with stuff in it. I'd literally drag it with me, because, you know, I need the monies.

When a monster came along (or a pack of hungry wolves), I'd let go of the bag and just fight them unencumbered! Pretty easy to pull off!

What I find unrealistic is leaving behind the riches just because they don't fit in my pants.

Reminds me of DeNiro dragging his armaments along with him in the Mission.

How do you prevent that left behind bag from being stolen? How much can you drag and what penalties do you accrue for carting those hundreds of pounds around? As a GM i'd be thinking exactly that if my characters were doing this. Wouldn't it be easier to take control of the place you are scavenging (if possible) and bring a cart, ponies or somesuch to clear the place out? Or use one of those great AD&D spells that are made for such an occasion, maybe even have hirelings to carry a hundred pounds or so of stuff around for you, though he would be vulnerable and at risk as well.

Personally I think realistic carry limits, an emphasis on gathering "valuable" treasures and strategic management of the inventory would be damn nice to see in an RPG at last. It solves a lot of problems, with too much disposable income breaking the economy, boring masses of indistinguishable loot making gathering and selling a tedious skinner box chore, and the characters not really being incentivised by wealth or having a career arc.

Then at high levels one can use spells to carry off more, organise hirelings to loot the cleared dungeons, and have their high levels and increased capability reflected in the gameworld. Even have merchants come to you and organise trade deals. Of course this also opens up the wealthy adventurer to robbers, taxes, other adventurers, and friends or hirelings all seeking to get their mitts on a bit of that wealth for themselves.

As of the current moment RPG's have no progression here, the characters are never stolen from, there is no life in dungeons or the world that is also seeking that wealth, and the adventurer has no incentive to adventure after a few screens of lootwhoring, while resources are utterly diminished in their worth and rarity. If wealth is to be rare and worth acquiring then everyone should be trying to, that battlefield will be looted by scavengers, that laden down adventuring party will be targeted by robbers who steal one of those laden ponies, that monster will snatch the hireling following the party and line its lair with that loot, the king will hear of your wealth and ask to borrow a sum to facilitate his latest war etcetera.

Have a progression from a pouch of a few gold crowns on your hip being a good wage for risking your life, to a treasury in your stronghold where the fruits of your lifes work glitter in the darkness.

Edit: Then Smaug comes along and fucks up your shit!

 

[Jools]

If I was a dungeon dwelling adventurer scavenging for gold pieces, I'd haul around a bag with stuff in it. I'd literally drag it with me, because, you know, I need the monies.

When a monster came along (or a pack of hungry wolves), I'd let go of the bag and just fight them unencumbered! Pretty easy to pull off!

What I find unrealistic is leaving behind the riches just because they don't fit in my pants.

Reminds me of DeNiro dragging his armaments along with him in the Mission.

How do you prevent that left behind bag from being stolen? How much can you drag and what penalties do you accrue for carting those hundreds of pounds around? As a GM i'd be thinking exactly that if my characters were doing this. Wouldn't it be easier to take control of the place you are scavenging (if possible) and bring a cart, ponies or somesuch to clear the place out? Or use one of those great AD&D spells that are made for such an occasion, maybe even have hirelings to carry a hundred pounds or so of stuff around for you, though he would be vulnerable and at risk as well.

Personally I think realistic carry limits, an emphasis on gathering "valuable" treasures and strategic management of the inventory would be damn nice to see in an RPG at last. It solves a lot of problems, with too much disposable income breaking the economy, boring masses of indistinguishable loot making gathering and selling a tedious skinner box chore, and the characters not really being incentivised by wealth or having a career arc.

Then at high levels one can use spells to carry off more, organise hirelings to loot the cleared dungeons, and have their high levels and increased capability reflected in the gameworld. Even have merchants come to you and organise trade deals. Of course this also opens up the wealthy adventurer to robbers, taxes, other adventurers, and friends or hirelings all seeking to get their mitts on a bit of that wealth for themselves.

As of the current moment RPG's have no progression here, the characters are never stolen from, there is no life in dungeons or the world that is also seeking that wealth, and the adventurer has no incentive to adventure after a few screens of lootwhoring, while resources are utterly diminished in their worth and rarity. If wealth is to be rare and worth acquiring then everyone should be trying to, that battlefield will be looted by scavengers, that laden down adventuring party will be targeted by robbers who steal one of those laden ponies, that monster will snatch the hireling following the party and line its lair with that loot, the king will hear of your wealth and ask to borrow a sum to facilitate his latest war etcetera.

Have a progression from a pouch of a few gold crowns on your hip being a good wage for risking your life, to a treasury in your stronghold where the fruits of your lifes work glitter in the darkness.

Edit: Then Smaug comes along and fucks up your shit!

This. u.u

 

[Immortal]

If you want inventory management that's truly meaningful, a large percentage of items in the game should be stuff you'd seriously consider using on a frequent, moment-to-moment basis during your adventure, and not just crap that you haul back to town or hoard. Inventory constraints as an upper cap on the amount of money you earn on dungeon-delving excursions just isn't interesting enough.

What Torment: Tides of Numenera is trying to do with cyphers may or may not end up being an inadvertent stab at addressing this

That's only because the spergness in all of us means that we can continually go back and forth between town and dungeon.

Isn't Torment implementing an overall game mechanic where your constantly pressing forward from area to area and won't be able to linger around too long in one spot. This would bring more meaning to the "Take what you need" as opposed to the "Grab everything not bolted down and come back for the rest later"

 

[ArchAngel]

Bags slow you down, they prevent Stealth and during combat you can trip on it or destroy it. You also get tired faster and they take part of your concentration making your easier to ambush.

And in PnP and real life you only get one life.

Yes, but I'd clear an area, come back to drag the bag, drop it and scout/clear next area, and so on and so on.

I'd be all for a system where you'd haul a bag/cart of stuff with penalties, but be able to drop it and resume after fights.

The worst scenario is not being able to carry the stuff, unless there's no expectation of finding merchants or no need for making gold.

You are just calling for many of the possible terrible things to happen to you if you stuff like this.