Do you get annoyed at the state of RPGs?

[anvi]

Hmm Betrayal at Krondor is a masterpiece to me, and I also like EverQuest, BG2, ToEE, Icewind 1 and 2, DoS, Blackguards, FFT, Tactics Ogre, Eye of the Beholder 2 and 3, Divine Divinity, one of the NWN1 expansions, and probably a few others I forgot. That's just the ones I really loved. There were some I had some fun with like Wiz8, MOTB, Kotor, Bloodlines, (and the first masquerade) lots of others, they are decent but not really a favorite. And I played probably 50 others that were just ok, Lands of Lore, Stonekeep, etc. And then another 50 I thought were pretty crappy.

(I don't include the System Shock games cuz they are FPS imo.)

I also don't include stuff like Jagged Alliance cuz they are.... I don't know, turn based strategy or something. I don't like them being lumped in with RPGs. But I loved them. I completed JA2 about 3 times and I rarely repeat games.

 

[YES!]

I don't feel annoyed, if anything I feel happy that there is some dev out there doing this genre the way I can enjoy it again.

Like back when you were a young boy playing Skyrim? Oh, the good old days of a couple years ago. How I pine for thee!

So if someone enjoys something you dislike, he must play Skyrim, right? How is life going for a mentally ill person that is unable to cope with people having different taste?
Life must be easier when everyone either loves and hate the same thing as you or the opposite of it.

I was clearly making for of age and the enjoy it again comment. But, yes, life would be way easier if everyone loved and hated the same things as I do.

 

[YES!]

Seriously, i don't get what's so great about this "RPG" genre.

1: Mechanics and gameplay often suck
2: Story is usually shallow and suffers from lack of creativity. Aren't you tired of general Tolkien fantasy? And a few games that have "great story" in the eyes of "RPG critics" have nothing but pretentious boring plots.
3: This "C&C" mechanics... both choices and their consequences feel arbitary in most of them. And a few RPGs that do C&C right are nothing better than your average CYOA.

Well, good thing you are posting on an rpg site.

 

[an Administrator]

Seriously, i don't get what's so great about this "RPG" genre.

1: Mechanics and gameplay often suck
2: Story is usually shallow and suffers from lack of creativity. Aren't you tired of general Tolkien fantasy? And a few games that have "great story" in the eyes of "RPG critics" have nothing but pretentious boring plots.
3: This "C&C" mechanics... both choices and their consequences feel arbitary in most of them. And a few RPGs that do C&C right are nothing better than your average CYOA.

Well, good thing you are posting on an rpg site.

I don't even know why i still post here

 

[YES!]

This thread is doing great things to prove various points I've been making for a while. Thank you young, dumb, non-rpg fans that infest this site.

 

[YES!]

Seriously, i don't get what's so great about this "RPG" genre.

1: Mechanics and gameplay often suck
2: Story is usually shallow and suffers from lack of creativity. Aren't you tired of general Tolkien fantasy? And a few games that have "great story" in the eyes of "RPG critics" have nothing but pretentious boring plots.
3: This "C&C" mechanics... both choices and their consequences feel arbitary in most of them. And a few RPGs that do C&C right are nothing better than your average CYOA.

Well, good thing you are posting on an rpg site.

I don't even know why i still post here

Why not stop? There are plenty of sites that cater to people of the genres you prefer.

 

[Viata]

Same for you, since you say this forum is not about true rpg anymore.

 

[Valky]

I don't really care about success or recognition of good RPG's as long as I get to play them and enjoy them for myself.

 

[anvi]

I don't even know why i still post here

Deep down you want us to convert you!

 

[anvi]

I don't really care about success or recognition of good RPG's as long as I get to play them and enjoy them for myself.

Yea but the success affects that. It affects how many we get, and what budget they get, how many people can work on them etc.

 

[Valky]

I don't really care about success or recognition of good RPG's as long as I get to play them and enjoy them for myself.

Yea but the success affects that. It affects how many we get, and what budget they get, how many people can work on them etc.

True and it might have not been the best way to state it, essentially I don't care what the plebs and casuals get up to as long as I get my incline.

 

[Viata]

Success is a good and a bad thing. A good developer getting success means that it can release more good games, but at the same time, a good developer may start dumbing down their game for the sake of success. There is also no guarantee that a developer after being successful starts releasing games for the lowest common denominator and giving the finger to its original fanbase.

 

[buru5]

Success is a good and a bad thing. A good developer getting success means that it can release more good games, but at the same time, a good developer may start dumbing down their game for the sake of success. There is also no guarantee that a developer after being
successful starts releasing games for the lowest common denominator and giving the finger to its original fanbase.

I think it's more accurate to say that developers start dumbing down their games regardless of success because they historically sell better across the board and this is the reason why CRPGs from "teh golden age" are dead or dying. This genre just does not appeal to many people, and the ones that do have been dumbed down considerably (Dragon Age, Fallout 3, Morrowind-Skyrim, etc).

 

[dragonul09]

Not only Rpgs or games in general,almost every part of the entertainment industry is pissing me off.Everything gets remastered,remaked,sequalized and casualized to the point that even the dumb fucks that the product is targeted at are getting annoyed at how they get treated.

The industry is more stagnant than ever and it doesn't seem to change anytime soon.Writers are also a big part of the problem,they are getting more politicized and afraid to take any risks than ever and that seems to drive away the ones that actually have some decent skills.

So yes,I'm pretty annoyed at everything at the moment.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

20 years ago, after playing Daggerfall, X-Com, Jagged Alliance, Wizardry 7, Dungeon Master, Dark Sun, et al., I thought that given the fast progress of technology, the games I'd be playing by now would be fantastic... I thought wrong.

Am I annoyed ? No. I'm beyond that, I'm downright pissed.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's not that it doesn't appeal to many people (sales of PoE and D:OS prove that there IS a significant audience), the problem lies elsewhere. BG2 was a massive success for BioWare even in terms of mainstream gaming, whatever was counted as mainstream in gaming then that is. The problem is that with success you get more money, by having more money you start spending more money for the development, spending more money leads to needing more money from sales to cover that cost AND have some profit. The cycle then repeats itself and at one point you start spending too much cash for "niche" titles to be profitable, so you start dumbing down. Then the "passion" for making vidya goes away because your job has devolved into filling up checklists of profitable things, so you leave the company because you already have more cash than you can spend in a lifetime and the cycle continues. Is there a single founding member of BioWare still working there?

 

[YES!]

It's not that it doesn't appeal to many people (sales of PoE and D:OS prove that there IS a significant audience), the problem lies elsewhere. BG2 was a massive success for BioWare even in terms of mainstream gaming, whatever was counted as mainstream in gaming then that is. The problem is that with success you get more money, by having more money you start spending more money for the development, spending more money leads to needing more money from sales to cover that cost AND have some profit. The cycle then repeats itself and at one point you start spending too much cash for "niche" titles to be profitable, so you start dumbing down. Then the "passion" for making vidya goes away because your job has devolved into filling up checklists of profitable things, so you leave the company because you already have more cash than you can spend in a lifetime and the cycle continues. Is there a single founding member of BioWare still working there?

Developers don't have to go bigger. But what incentive do that have to make real rpgs when they are attacked and belittle and have hate campaigns used against them like inXile? This isn't about developers wanting to go bigger, it is about a self destructive community who hates the genre they claim to like. Case in point - look at all the great rpg companies of old who closed not because they went bigger and started making shittier and shittier games. The made good games, as always, but their audience became hate mongering lunatics having hissy fits over nonsense.

 

[anvi]

Last several posts deserve this

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Seriously, i don't get what's so great about this "RPG" genre.

1: Mechanics and gameplay often suck
2: Story is usually shallow and suffers from lack of creativity. Aren't you tired of general Tolkien fantasy? And a few games that have "great story" in the eyes of "RPG critics" have nothing but pretentious boring plots.
3: This "C&C" mechanics... both choices and their consequences feel arbitary in most of them. And a few RPGs that do C&C right are nothing better than your average CYOA.

Well, good thing you are posting on an rpg site.

I don't even know why i still post here

I feel the same way. Actually, all games are shit designed for retards.

I post here because every other site bans me.

 

[Lacrymas]

Developers don't have to go bigger. But what incentive do that have to make real rpgs when they are attacked and belittle and have hate campaigns used against them like inXile? This isn't about developers wanting to go bigger, it is about a self destructive community who hates the genre they claim to like. Case in point - look at all the great rpg companies of old who closed not because they went bigger and started making shittier and shittier games. The made good games, as always, but their audience became hate mongering lunatics having hissy fits over nonsense.

InXile deserve hate though. BioWare are the typical example of a dev that got too big for its own good and started making shittier games. Interplay/Black Isle had massive financial difficulties by the time PS:T was released due to competition from consoles and poor sales of their latest games. Troika closed its doors because the management had zero business sense, squandered much of its budget for rewrites and do-overs, a "casual environment" and released bugged up the butt games that nobody bought at the time. Not to mention the huge competition with Half-life 2, Valve forced them to release Bloodlines the same day they released Half-life 2 due to the engine. They even patched Bloodlines for free. I.e. it's not because of a "vitriolic community" lol.

 

[buru5]

It's not that it doesn't appeal to many people (sales of PoE and D:OS prove that there IS a significant audience), the problem lies elsewhere. BG2 was a massive success for BioWare even in terms of mainstream gaming, whatever was counted as mainstream in gaming then that is. The problem is that with success you get more money, by having more money you start spending more money for the development, spending more money leads to needing more money from sales to cover that cost AND have some profit. The cycle then repeats itself and at one point you start spending too much cash for "niche" titles to be profitable, so you start dumbing down. Then the "passion" for making vidya goes away because your job has devolved into filling up checklists of profitable things, so you leave the company because you already have more cash than you can spend in a lifetime and the cycle continues. Is there a single founding member of BioWare still working there?

I'd ask you to look at sales of Final Fantasy 7 and compare them to Baldur's Gate 2 (both of which came out relatively close together) then reread your post. Yes, they're different platforms, but I think this factors into the "dumbed down" point as well, since consoles are dumbed down PCs and obviously "gamers" prefer consoles according to sales data.

Final Fantasy 7 sold about 10 million copies on PlayStation alone, whereas Baldur's Gate 2 sold a little over 2 million units. Still good figures, but not anywehre near the sales of Final Fantasy 7 which is a dumbed down as fuck RPG.


Divinity: Original Sin sold well? All I can find is that it sold over 500k copies, which is great and all but it's nowhere near Skyrim's sales which were about 3 million within 2 days of release. Good marketing campaign? Familiar brand name? Make all the excuses you want but historically the simpler RPGs have sold better than the more complex RPGs.

Naturally there are exceptions to the rule.

 

[Viata]

Developers don't have to go bigger.

Which is what every developers aims, though.

But what incentive do that have to make real rpgs when they are attacked and belittle and have hate campaigns used against them like inXile?

So are you saying that after a developer says "fuck you" to you, you should just go back to suck their cock?

 

[Lacrymas]

buru5, I think you are misquoting me, since nothing of what you said is related to my post, it even strengthens it lol, apart from the D:OS and PoE bit. D:OS sold around 1 million copies iirc, PoE sold 500k and still going strong. I said there's a significant audience, not that they sell as much as Skyrim, reading comprehension much?

EDIT: Checked it - PoE has 900k+ owners on Steam, so probably around 1M with GOG. D:OS has 1.3M owners on Steam, probably 1.4-5M with GOG.

 

[Max Stats]

I'm lying I don't have a life

 

[anvi]

I feel the same way. Actually, all games are shit designed for retards.

I post here because every other site bans me.

I'm with you. But I still find some stuff I really like. My problem is that it is 1 game out of every 100 million games. There are only so many times you can re-play 20 year old game.