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Does CD Projekt underpay and abuse its developers?

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,792
Location
Australia
I'm sure the Poles are used to being exploited.

1280px-Eingangstor_des_KZ_Auschwitz%2C_Arbeit_macht_frei_%282007%29.jpg
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
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London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
Chris Metzen said he had the most awesome job one could imagine but his family was neglected and his daughter was growing up without him and that was one of the reasons he retired. Most developers don't have that luxury. He is a genuinely good guy and he made the right choice. We all know how fatherless daughters and boys are likely to end up. Daughters end up having an Onlyfans account and boys become the simps or criminals. Just look at the black community in America.

Also, you can pretend to be redpilled and criticize modern civilization and single moms all you want but you are kind of a hypocrite if you support this. Children with fathers working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week are de facto fatherless. In fact, it is worse, because they will end up resenting him for neglecting them.

Do you really want broken people with broken families to make your games?

Yeah that's a good point. Capitalism is great and all, but it does need strong State oversight to ensure that economic efficiency is kept in balance with other social desiderata - like public health (physiological and psychological), social cohesion, the reproduction of a people through time, etc. If you believe in equality as an ideal, that means Social Democracy; if you believe in hierarchy as natural, unavoidable and desirable, that means Fascism. Either way, the State is only seen as legitimate, and obeyed, when the vast majority of people feel it's working in their over-arching interests.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,898
I still remember that one time two hobos stole the "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign and tried to smuggle it out of Poland to sell it to a Swedish Neo-nazi.
Interesting connections for hobos. I'd thought that a regular hobo would simply try to sell it in some random scrap market for a quick buck, rather than try to smuggle it out of a country.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
I still remember that one time two hobos stole the "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign and tried to smuggle it out of Poland to sell it to a Swedish Neo-nazi.
Interesting connections for hobos. I'd thought that a regular hobo would simply try to sell it in some random scrap market for a quick buck, rather than try to smuggle it out of a country.
He likely approached the hobos offering them money to do it
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
4,201
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
I still remember that one time two hobos stole the "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign and tried to smuggle it out of Poland to sell it to a Swedish Neo-nazi.
Interesting connections for hobos. I'd thought that a regular hobo would simply try to sell it in some random scrap market for a quick buck, rather than try to smuggle it out of a country.
He likely approached the hobos offering them money to do it
Yeah, he hired them to do it.
 

Semiurge

Cipher
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
6,278
Location
Asp Hole
You idealists... you just can't accept that this is as good as it gets. The grass is always greener somewhere else and there's still a society to be built that has the perfection of a clockwork and the beauty of a pearl.
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
7,552
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
I still remember that one time two hobos stole the "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign and tried to smuggle it out of Poland to sell it to a Swedish Neo-nazi.
Interesting connections for hobos. I'd thought that a regular hobo would simply try to sell it in some random scrap market for a quick buck, rather than try to smuggle it out of a country.
He likely approached the hobos offering them money to do it
Yeah, he hired them to do it.
Or maybe they were just following orders. :dance:
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
Patron
Joined
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7,513
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Pronouns: rusts/rusty
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
fathers working 16 hours a day, 7 days
Who the hell works with such schedule? Kids in Indian sweetshops? Your country doesn't have any labour laws or unions?
I've seen software developers here in Italy work with such schedules for short periods of time (a couple of weeks or a month at best). However, usually, it was something more like 15 hours a day with a free sunday to rest.

Never underestimate people's will to be exploited and exploit others.
 

OctavianRomulus

Learned
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Messages
480
fathers working 16 hours a day, 7 days
Who the hell works with such schedule? Kids in Indian sweetshops? Your country doesn't have any labour laws or unions?

It might be an exaggeration but when it's crunch time, it's not far off and IIRC, TW3 devs were years in crunch due to poor management. Blizzard recently had some horrific stories too.

I'm all for making the state smaller and cutting taxes but this is where government could actually be useful. Enforce 8 hours/day and no more than 3 months of crunch per project of up to 4 extra hours. That would also force studios to hire better project managers to be more efficient. Games might take longer to make and might be more expensive. It might even destroy some games but I think that in the long run everyone would be better off this way, gamers included.

Since this is a creative medium, you want to be in your top shape at all times and most importantly not resent your job and your passion for video games. You do that by spending time with your family and friends, play some vidya, read a good book, spend time in nature, go to an art gallery. You can't make games with a human touch if you're not human anymore, especially if you start to hate video games and the culture of their development.
 

Atlantico

unida e indivisible
Patron
Undisputed Queen of Faggotry Vatnik In My Safe Space
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Midgard
Make the Codex Great Again!
The core challenge in any development in industry, from movies to computer games, is management. Especially in video games, poor management is way too common, is costly and leads to crunch time and bizarre goals.

That applies both to low level management and high level. This is what sunk otherwise interesting companies like Ion Storm and is sinking former giants like Blizzard.

This is also why crunch time is really just another mythical-man-hour strategy and is indicative of poor management. Pouring more people over more hours on a project always result in a sharp dip in quality and an even sharper dip in productivity.

I'd fire any manager who consistently get projects into "crunch time".
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
7,552
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London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
The core challenge in any development in industry, from movies to computer games, is management. Especially in video games, poor management is way too common, is costly and leads to crunch time and bizarre goals.

That applies both to low level management and high level. This is what sunk otherwise interesting companies like Ion Storm and is sinking former giants like Blizzard.

This is also why crunch time is really just another mythical-man-hour strategy and is indicative of poor management. Pouring more people over more hours on a project always result in a sharp dip in quality and an even sharper dip in productivity.

I'd fire any manager who consistently get projects into "crunch time".

It's the same in all professions (I'm an old musician). Creative talent and experience are ten a penny, there's a shit-ton of talented people in this world who have the chops and experience to make things, and make them well.

The really rare thing is finding people who can wrangle creatives into making something that sells without pissing them off, and doing it on time and on budget. In fact I'd go so far as to say it's the single biggest factor that makes the difference between a hit and a miss.
 

OctavianRomulus

Learned
Joined
Aug 21, 2019
Messages
480
The core challenge in any development in industry, from movies to computer games, is management. Especially in video games, poor management is way too common, is costly and leads to crunch time and bizarre goals.

That applies both to low level management and high level. This is what sunk otherwise interesting companies like Ion Storm and is sinking former giants like Blizzard.

This is also why crunch time is really just another mythical-man-hour strategy and is indicative of poor management. Pouring more people over more hours on a project always result in a sharp dip in quality and an even sharper dip in productivity.

I'd fire any manager who consistently get projects into "crunch time".

That is what the CDPR devs said too. And the problems didn't stop with TW3. Cyberpunk 2077 has been in development for almost 7 years I think.
 

Zer0wing

Cipher
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
2,607
All these meme posts about human nature that always missed for predator animal nature (humans operate with conciousness, not instincts, you morons) increase in count and density just when current status quo is about to fall apart. Funny.
 

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