Dominions 4 Intercommunity Game

[Johannes]

EA Birds best birds - skele spam, usual thunder spam, excellent eagle kings. And bird troops suck both MA and EA, LA has decent troops but the mages suck.

All Caelums have great troops, especially in a team setting. Flying is the best thing you can have in a teamgame.

EA is the only one that has usable sacreds so they have that going for them, MA/LA otoh have Storm Guards who are ridiculous in cold dominion.

EA Sauro has trash troops and weak magic if you ask me. Not a fan of humans + death. You want a cheap nerd nation there are many better picks.

This is totally wrong, but there's the caveat that a mediocre player can't get much mileage out of them. If you don't have a player who knows how to play Sauro in advance its not worth it. They have great research, and in many ways best skelespam in the game.


Note that MA Pan works totally fine without a bless - white centaurs are good but normal centaurs can do the same job just as well. So going a non-bless build is something to consider. There's no reason to rule out strong non-bless nations like MA Ulm, non-EA Caelum, Sauro, MA Pythium, and so on. Actually they might be preferable here since less people might want them due to being already locked into bless nations only.


Most important thing in a team game is to have synergy between the nations - not just in temp scales and in possible bless, but in that they give you different armies that an enemy can't plausibly counter all three nations with the same army/scripting. And different movement types - stealth, flying, sailing, trapeze/teleport...

Fake edit: so MA Vanheim is in, that's nice. Pretty much keeps the options totally open, whatever you personally want to (and know how to) play, really. Are water nations available? Depending on the map one of those could be an obvious choice.

And remember you have currently no S, and barely any F/D. Filling those gaps should be a consideration, but not a must.

Edit: Gath seems like a great choice here, brings you full magic diversity, SC chassis, giants and rec-anywhere sacred, plus some of the best communions in the game. But it kinda forces you into E4N9 build, which isn't bad ofc, but might not be what you want to play. Also better hunters who can feed your other nations slaves.
Personally I'd go with Gath (E4N9) or MA Caelum (scales).

 

[KoolNoodles]

I would have liked a heavy blood nation, but maybe we can make Van/Pan work together on that front. Expensive as hell though. Death might be an issue moving into the late game, but a Disciple can handle that if need be. Then again, we shouldn't pick for the late game, with this many teams. Likely won't get there doing that.

 

[Johannes]

Then again, we shouldn't pick for the late game, with this many teams. Likely won't get there doing that.

More like the opposite. The game is near 100% sure to not end before lategame due to its size. Getting there is not enough, but you have to be the best at it. And just surviving into lategame means jack shit if you don't win.

In small games you can try to win early, here not so much.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Then again, we shouldn't pick for the late game, with this many teams. Likely won't get there doing that.

More like the opposite. The game is near 100% sure to not end before lategame due to its size. Getting there is not enough, but you have to be the best at it. And just surviving into lategame means jack shit if you don't win.

In small games you can try to win early, here not so much.

I am not so sure with big Disciple games. 1 or 2 teams will probably be ganged up on with a combination Disciple/bless rush quite early(this is my experience at any rate), and everyone hates RPG Codex.

We can try to mitigate some of that with diplomacy, but sometimes that doesn't cut it. Depends who we start next to(if we start next to two teams that want us dead due to game/other reasons, then we're fucked).

I hope we start near the Chinese team.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Ok so who is on the team for sure? sqeecoo? profreshinal ?

What do you think of the two nations we've picked so far, what's your experience with them, etc. Preference?

In short:

Pan is all about buffing its troops and beating up the enemy army with better units, with mostly good earth/nature battle magic and later Frozen Heart spam from half your researchers, etc. Also stealth everything and mobility(except hoplites but don't bother, usually). If we go Turmoil, you will eventually have more Maenads than you know what to do with. They are mostly terrible, but with Wooden Warriors/Strength of Giants/Haste you have blobs of decent troops that you don't care if they die en masse. You will probably be looking for big decisive battles(but again, Pan can dance and raid as well).

Van also has stealth and mobility, good troops, but geared towards equipping and using thugs with cloud trapeze while dabbling in blood magic(only from having faced, not played in MP). Basically, they are annoying to fight. Whoever plays them, once you get cloud trapeze + basic gear, will be our realms' police force. Raid, counter raid, target small armies, etc. You'll be forging a lot.

Both have the potential for great sacred troops, but tons of points in a bless is not necessary. The standard pick in Disciples is at least N9, to utilize the bless on one or more big Disciple chassis. We don't have to do that though.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Update

Note: Dom4mods will be using MA Mictlan, not LA Marignon. I will adjust the ban list accordingly.

EA TNN
EA Helheim
EA Tien Chi
EA Fomoria
EA Mictlan
EA Abysia
EA Xibalba
EA Atlantis
EA Pan
EA Berytos
EA Caelum
EA Vanheim
EA Lanka

MA Ashdod
MA Vanheim
MA Vanarus
MA Jotunheim
MA Pelagia
MA Agartha
MA Ermor
MA Nazca
MA Asphodel
MA Pan
MA Mictlan

LA Midgard
LA Utgard
LA Abysia
LA Ulm
LA Mictlan
LA Ragha
LA Xibalba
LA Atlantis

 

[Dayyālu]

This is totally wrong, but there's the caveat that a mediocre player can't get much mileage out of them. If you don't have a player who knows how to play Sauro in advance its not worth it. They have great research, and in many ways best skelespam in the game.

I am a mediocre player and I find them very good. Their research is top tier and the Enaries are very good mages. I am finding some problems in other things, though, but they are kinda strong. Their troop line is adequate for EA, but it won't cut in an all-ages game particularly early game, methinks.

Edit: Gath seems like a great choice here, brings you full magic diversity, SC chassis, giants and rec-anywhere sacred, plus some of the best communions in the game. But it kinda forces you into E4N9 build, which isn't bad ofc, but might not be what you want to play. Also better hunters who can feed your other nations slaves.
Personally I'd go with Gath (E4N9) or MA Caelum (scales).

MA Sceleria instead of Ma Pythium? If has both D and S, plus for a human nation it's kinda nice. Prob is it's slow on the strategical side of things.

I am not so sure with big Disciple games. 1 or 2 teams will probably be ganged up on with a combination Disciple/bless rush quite early(this is my experience at any rate), and everyone hates RPG Codex.

We can try to mitigate some of that with diplomacy, but sometimes that doesn't cut it. Depends who we start next to(if we start next to two teams that want us dead due to game/other reasons, then we're fucked).

Everyone hates us? Since when?

We're going in with a noob team mostly thanks to the fact that the other good players are burned out\unwilling\gulag-bound. Happens.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Didn't realize there would be another ban phase(didn't see it in the OP), so I expect all the rest of the good nations will now be banned.

Never mind, it was changed.

 

[sqeecoo]

I'd be fine with Pan if no one wants it, but I'll play whatever. New experiences are good

 

[Johannes]

Then again, we shouldn't pick for the late game, with this many teams. Likely won't get there doing that.

More like the opposite. The game is near 100% sure to not end before lategame due to its size. Getting there is not enough, but you have to be the best at it. And just surviving into lategame means jack shit if you don't win.

In small games you can try to win early, here not so much.

I am not so sure with big Disciple games. 1 or 2 teams will probably be ganged up on with a combination Disciple/bless rush quite early(this is my experience at any rate), and everyone hates RPG Codex.

We can try to mitigate some of that with diplomacy, but sometimes that doesn't cut it. Depends who we start next to(if we start next to two teams that want us dead due to game/other reasons, then we're fucked).

I hope we start near the Chinese team.

You can't go into a game with a defensive mindset unless your lategame is strong. You must play to WIN, not just to stay alive. If 1 or 2 teams out of 11! get annihilated early due to a combination of bad luck/play/diplo, that's not that bad a chance. Only 1/11 can win, after all. If you make your build around defending against a hypothetical early gangup, even if it happens and you fend it off thanks to this build, you're not really in a great position to win. You have to think farther than that.

Lategame supremacy ought to be the end goal of a 33-nation game. You want to minimize the vulnerabilities early on, sure, but not by sacrificing that objective. Lategame power can be achieved through conquest, of course, but you're talking defense here, not aggression.

 

[sum1won]

Good one. Blood, Air, and Dwarven smiths. Limited Cold affinity, but happens.

Tons of adequate options still around. We pick third and with "advantage points", that I guess give us priority compared to domg in sum1won 's addled mind or something.

The only pick I don't get is LA Abysia. The Last Fantasy is Chinese, their meta must be kinda crazy.

It was their fifth pick. I don't get what it adds to Pelagia either, but if nobody else goes UW, it doesn't really matter, and LA Abysia is a very nice late game nation. Like MA Abysia, but with out-of-cap blood and cheaper troops.
Johannes is giving you good advice re late game.

Yes, you get priority = to /domg/. That means you only rolloff if we select the same thing.

 

[profreshinal]

I'm part of the team, for realzies. I have a slight preference to play Van over Pan, although I have no hands on experience in MP with either.

Our last pick could perhaps maybe possible be Man as to have a full rhyming roster, they'll never expect this unique pocket strat!

 

[KoolNoodles]

Final Picks are in:


Dom4mods gets MA Bandar Log
The Last Fantasy gets EA SAuro
RPGCodex gets LA Gath
Something Awful gets LA Lemuria
The Florida Dominions and Gator-Wrasslin' Club gets EA Yomi
RPGNet gets MA Sceleria
Vanheim gets MA Arcoscephale
Teamliquid gets LA Jomon
TROW gets LA Caelum
Cloclwork gets EA Hinnom
Domg fucked up and chose ma bandar log, so they go to the next round and get PATALA

 

[KoolNoodles]

So if we are ok with this: sqeecoo plays Pan, profreshinal plays Van, and I'll play Gath?

 

[Malakal]

Seems like the map is very tight, you guys better prepare for a very early war.

 

[Johannes]

With that lineup a certain kind of bless (ExSxN9 / ExN9 / N9 or maybe N9B9) seems obvious, beyond that it's just a matter of taking some Prod scales to have a strong start.

To take a turmoil or order build though, is a question. Maenads vs. hunting, and turmoil/luck by favor of being cheaper would afford you some of that production. And apparently there's a Yomi that benefits from the turmoil, but that's just 1 enemy nation out of 30... Luck has the extra leverage compared to normal that you can easily utilize all gems you get from events, between hte team, otoh getting mages from events may not be as impactful as in a normal game.
//E: noticed Yomi team has Lanka too, turmoil is prob not a great idea, even if you don't start next to them you might meet later

Van seems like the best pretender, it's of -1 temp which you swing to >+1, and has much worse disciple selection than Gath (they only really have basic sage, master lich and such as passable choices). Pan otoh has statue of fertility which is notably cheaper than other EN chassi, but their neutral temp means you lose a bit of points on that front. Having a Monolith which can teleport, or a titan who can fight, as pretender do have clear benefits over the statue ofc, and due to the temp change the statue isn't that much cheaper here.

Edit: what are the full lineups for other teams? //e2: found it on dom3mods

 

[sqeecoo]

Thanks for the tips guys! Not a bad nation selection I guess. By the way, do we have a standby sub? We would need one, since I'll be gone to Cambodia from February 13 to Feb 27 and unable to play at all

 

[KoolNoodles]

Thanks for the tips guys! Not a bad nation selection I guess. By the way, do we have a standby sub? We would need one, since I'll be gone to Cambodia from February 13 to Feb 27 and unable to play at all

I thought that was Dayyālu

 

[KoolNoodles]

I'll start a convo with the players shortly, and if anyone wants an invite just say so.

 

[Dayyālu]

I thought that was Dayyālu

I GUESS

Cambodia

What the fuck man

What

You could easily go to San Giovanni in Persiceto for that kind of money

 

[Dayyālu]

Let's waste time and post the full line up if someone is interested in the full list

Teams:
The Last Fantasy. - MA Pelagia, LA Abysia, EA Sauro
Team flat what. They won't have UW opposition, and they get a borderline good blood magic economy, but they are top tier rush bait. IMHO at least. LA Abysia is nothign special, EA Sauro is kinda good if well played (as Johannes said) and MA Pelagia is a monster UW.

TROW. - MA Jotunheim, LA Caelum, LA Midgard

Cold team! Flying, Elves and Skrattis. I've played several games as MA jotuns, and I hate the nation, but it has very strong research capabilities if properly supported. LA Caelum seems to be the strongest Caelum with flying troops, and their sacreds are hard as nails. Plus Air Spam always works, particularly flying Air Spam. Don't know shit about LA Midgard, I presume stock LA Elves.

The University of North Florida. - EA LANKA, EA Yomi, EA TC

Sacred-Heavy lineup, Lanka has skellispam and an awesome array of thugs\SC chassis. Dakini uber alles, for a starter. EA TC is a solid human nation, W4E are good if blessed heavily. Yomi lives and dies for Oni Kings SCs. They'll take an heavy bless and T3L3 and they'll rush anything that moves.

RpgNet. - LA Ulm, EA TNN, MA Sceleria

Someone is planning for lategame. Good magic variety, and they can go wild on scales. On the negative it's elves and humans, with added skellspam both in strategical and tactical with Sceleria.

Something Awful - EA Pan, LA Lemuria, EA Helheim

SA has some top-tier players, do we know who is in? EA Pan is good (worse than MA Pan though) LA Lemuria is 15 free gems for shitty summons and no freespawn. Ea Helheim is good elves. If this one is not played WELL (as good old Grimwulf defined "in a non-librul" way) so with heavy microing it's kinda weak. But hey, they got Lemuria, they have a plan. Probably BOT'ing everyone.

/domg/ - EA Vanheim, EA Mictlan, LA Patala

Elves, blood magic, Patala. What the heck Patala has or does? Never played or fought it.

dom4mods - LA Mictlan, MA Mictlan, MA Bandar Log

Blood, limited UW options, Blood, Astral monkeys. Sacred-focused bless is obvious. Sacreds and summons.

Clockwork - EA Berytos, EA Hinnom, MA Ashdod

WE LIKE GIANT SC CHASSIS THE TEAM THE MOVIE

vanheim - MA Vanarus, EA Fomoria, MA Arcoscephale

It's a flexible team. Arco sucks, and Fomoria is suboptimal, but it's a flexible team.

teamliquid - EA Caelum, LA Utgard, LA Jomon

Uh. EA Caelum ha Eagle Kings , that are very good if pricey. Jomon has bad troops for good summons (and UW troops, good luck getting that with MA Pelagia around though). Never played Utgard, heard it's a shittier Jotunheim.

Seems like the map is very tight, you guys better prepare for a very early war.

I'm not particularly impressed by the map. Why we go random when Mormacil did a very nice map?

 

[Malakal]

Some dudes did some testing and the map placed shared cap rings from two teams, Berytos away from water and generally teammates all over the place. So yeah, as usual.

Johannes How did you arrive at N9? Its not a typical bless for Pan or Vanheim who both usually run W9. Its also a shitty offensive bless mainly good for thugs. Seir don't need N9 either. The team has some thug potential but I wouldn't say N9 gives a lot early power.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Some dudes did some testing and the map placed shared cap rings from two teams, Berytos away from water and generally teammates all over the place. So yeah, as usual.

Johannes How did you arrive at N9? Its not a typical bless for Pan or Vanheim who both usually run W9. Its also a shitty offensive bless mainly good for thugs. Seir don't need N9 either. The team has some thug potential but I wouldn't say N9 gives a lot early power.

Depends perhaps on what disciples we roll with. Two beefy dudes on turn ~6 that can regenerate would definitely help with expansion and early wars. Though yeah, W9 is great for centaurs/vans. Also later blood/death summons love shrouds with N9 bless, so there's that.

My main concern right now is that the map will be cramped, and there are several teams screaming 2x major bless.

So we won't have as powerful sacreds, or as many(except maybe Gath, but that will take time), but a couple powerful, mobile, regenerating, Disciples with even basic gear can help thwart a rush.

I was thinking Gath with a Moloch(who can also do early soul contracts), Pan with Prince of Death(also for the big summons later). Dragons and Serpent bore me, but if there are better choices by all means, I am not the best Pretender/Disciple picker.

The above is assuming we don't want a Disciple to specialize in something else.

 

[profreshinal]

/domg/ - EA Vanheim, EA Mictlan, LA Patala

Elves, blood magic, Patala. What the heck Patala has or does? Never played or fought it.

Patala has access to the Lanka blood summons aka dakinis.

 

[Malakal]

/domg/ - EA Vanheim, EA Mictlan, LA Patala

Elves, blood magic, Patala. What the heck Patala has or does? Never played or fought it.

Patala has access to the Lanka blood summons aka dakinis.

And to the bandar log/kailasa summons but those kinda suck. Plus new summons unique to patala.