DOOM Eternal - the sequel to the 2016 reboot - now with The Ancient Gods DLC

[Durandal]

Doom Eternal is a pretty meh game.
Not to mention that when you glory kill or saw someone, you are not in control of your characters while others can attack you and run around you while you are "stunned" from the animation.

You know how in Dark Souls that you can't move while attacking and thus have to think ahead about when it's safe to attack?
It's the same thing.

So if you are up to 3 stronger enemies and you don't have enough ammo, you are "Doomed"? Because you can't run away from their projectiles, you move slowly, and you can't replenish the little ammo you have because you will get killed.
Maybe you need to plan ahead to kill one of the big guys with the Chainsaw, and then work out from there.

What you then do is leave some of the fodder enemies alive because they only take one charge to kill with the Chainsaw.

Doom Eternal is a pretty meh game.
Not to mention that when you glory kill or saw someone, you are not in control of your characters while others can attack you and run around you while you are "stunned" from the animation.

You know how in Dark Souls that you can't move while attacking and thus have to think ahead about when it's safe to attack?
It's the same thing.

They are nowhere near the same.

If the Doom "Slayer" moved as fast as the Doom Guy did, the fights would be much, much easier, where as movement speed would do nothing in Dark Souls, as you still have to figure how the enemy moves. Dark Souls is finger learning kind of difficulty. You have to memorize the boss move set with your hands so that it then becomes second nature. But in a gun and run game like this the variables are too random. It's all about dodging things at the last moment and you can't do that efficiently because your movement is hamstringed so you have to rely on movement boosters like double jumping, jumping platforms or teleporters, or tricks like the hologram grande.

If you could move during or cancel out of any move in Dark Souls, the game would lose 70% of its difficulty because you're no longer put in a vulnerable position after attacking. Instead of getting punished for whiffing or attacking an enemy with super armor, you can dodge everything on reaction and don't have to bother with reading ahead, like dodging in any Platinum game.

It ain't rocket science. If you want to Glory Kill without getting hit right afterwards, you either need to do it in a spot where you aren't surrounded, or set up a situation where you can safely do it. You have the tools for that; 16 gave you the spammable Stun Bomb and Eternal gives you the Ice Bomb. Instead of going right for the Glory Kill you stagger other nearby enemies first so they won't interrupt you by the time you're done Glory Killing. People feel strangely compelled to execute a Glory Kill when they see an enemy glowing even though it puts them in a worse position, and then they complain about how its gets them killed.

To use a better in-game example, Glory Kills are like charging up Siege Mode. You can't move while charging it (unless you upgraded it at which point it becomes trivial to do), but the rewards are worth it.

 

[PompiPompi]

So the weaker enemies are just annoying walking Ammo crates.
What is the point of the low ammo cap? Is it realistic? How is it realistic that a Chanisaw gives ammo and a glory kill gives health?

 

[DalekFlay]

What is the point of the low ammo cap? Is it realistic? How is it realistic that a Chanisaw gives ammo and a glory kill gives health?

If there's anything Doom is known for, it's being "realistic."

 

[DJOGamer PT]

You mean like enjoying RTwP games...

 

[fantadomat]

Only Bethesda could fuck up something this simple.

How is that a fuck up???

 

[OctavianRomulus]

Combat is definitely better than in 2016 and some of the best ever but the exploration took a backseat this time. Secrets are there but are more often than not just kind of "there". This greatly annoys me.

Maybe if we keep spamming places where the devs look for feedback that we want exploration like in Foundry and Argent Facility we will get it. I would do so on Doomworld but I got banned for being too much of an edgelord and I just can't stand reddit. Or maybe they read the Kodex too.

So the weaker enemies are just annoying walking Ammo crates.
What is the point of the low ammo cap? Is it realistic? How is it realistic that a Chanisaw gives ammo and a glory kill gives health?

It's so you won't be able to just hoard 20 rockets and spam them. This is a good move as you need to constantly swtich between weapons depending on which enemy you are facing and what kind of ammo you have. Chainsaw Fuel is not that plentiful anymore and the pip that slowly recharges is more to keep you alive.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Played the last one. Fool me once...

I might not hate it so much if Bethesda didn't have their hands on it.

 

[PompiPompi]

Combat is definitely better than in 2016 and some of the best ever but the exploration took a backseat this time. Secrets are there but are more often than not just kind of "there". This greatly annoys me.

Maybe if we keep spamming places where the devs look for feedback that we want exploration like in Foundry and Argent Facility we will get it. I would do so on Doomworld but I got banned for being too much of an edgelord and I just can't stand reddit. Or maybe they read the Kodex too.

So the weaker enemies are just annoying walking Ammo crates.
What is the point of the low ammo cap? Is it realistic? How is it realistic that a Chanisaw gives ammo and a glory kill gives health?

It's so you won't be able to just hoard 20 rockets and spam them. This is a good move as you need to constantly swtich between weapons depending on which enemy you are facing and what kind of ammo you have. Chainsaw Fuel is not that plentiful anymore and the pip that slowly recharges is more to keep you alive.

Then limit the rockets, not the Shotgun with 16 shells.
Even a real soldier in the real world carries more ammo.
I didn't reach the rockets part yet.
I can understand the idea of a well balanced section where you need to go through more carefully.
But the low ammo is just extremely annoying.
I didn't know, but you are not even suppose to use glory kills and chainsaw almost at all.
Maybe I am in the starting area still, but even in advanced area you really on mobility boosts to move, because you walk so slow otherwise.
Compare the action to unreal tournament and it's iteration, how you would walk fast and jump almost like an antelope.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

You mean like enjoying RTwP games...

...which I never once even talked about.

No but you reacted strongly when I said RTwP is garbage.

 

[OctavianRomulus]

Combat is definitely better than in 2016 and some of the best ever but the exploration took a backseat this time. Secrets are there but are more often than not just kind of "there". This greatly annoys me.

Maybe if we keep spamming places where the devs look for feedback that we want exploration like in Foundry and Argent Facility we will get it. I would do so on Doomworld but I got banned for being too much of an edgelord and I just can't stand reddit. Or maybe they read the Kodex too.

So the weaker enemies are just annoying walking Ammo crates.
What is the point of the low ammo cap? Is it realistic? How is it realistic that a Chanisaw gives ammo and a glory kill gives health?

It's so you won't be able to just hoard 20 rockets and spam them. This is a good move as you need to constantly swtich between weapons depending on which enemy you are facing and what kind of ammo you have. Chainsaw Fuel is not that plentiful anymore and the pip that slowly recharges is more to keep you alive.

Then limit the rockets, not the Shotgun with 16 shells.
Even a real soldier in the real world carries more ammo.
I didn't reach the rockets part yet.
I can understand the idea of a well balanced section where you need to go through more carefully.
But the low ammo is just extremely annoying.
I didn't know, but you are not even suppose to use glory kills and chainsaw almost at all.
Maybe I am in the starting area still, but even in advanced area you really on mobility boosts to move, because you walk so slow otherwise.
Compare the action to unreal tournament and it's iteration, how you would walk fast and jump almost like an antelope.

Well I use the Blood Fueled rune so I actually run quite fast.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

It doesn't focus the gameplay on it's weakest element and it isn't RTwP

 

[lightbane]

A video is better than a thousand words, so here's one.

Spoiler

Note that it is in Spanish. Non-spaniards may abstain.

It looks more of the same to me, although with less ammo, more cancerous color everywhere, and no memory compression since the game weights 50 GB or so.

 

[PompiPompi]

Bathsheba should make RPGs, not FPSes.
I mean, it's ok this exist, but they don't seem like a company to make FPSes.
Some companies have more experiences and infrastructure to make FPSes.

 

[orcinator]

It has (easily bypassed) always online features
also it won't let you turn the graphics up if it detects you're using more vrams than you have even through I seriously doubt the game is so demanding my 3gb card on't be able to handle it on medium. But maybe it just unoptimized.

Oh and the menu mouse has that slow consoley feeling for some reason.

Maybe I'll stop hating the game once I actually play it.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I guess by that logic we could say RTwP is actually Turn Based

 

[OctavianRomulus]

Doom Eternal is a pretty meh game.
Not to mention that when you glory kill or saw someone, you are not in control of your characters while others can attack you and run around you while you are "stunned" from the animation.

You know how in Dark Souls that you can't move while attacking and thus have to think ahead about when it's safe to attack?
It's the same thing.

So if you are up to 3 stronger enemies and you don't have enough ammo, you are "Doomed"? Because you can't run away from their projectiles, you move slowly, and you can't replenish the little ammo you have because you will get killed.
Maybe you need to plan ahead to kill one of the big guys with the Chainsaw, and then work out from there.
Kind of meh...
It is no wonder the multiplayer doesn't have a death match.
Maybe people like this kind of game, but for me it's kind of tedious.
It plays more like a lame real time tactical RPG.
It's like playing MK via email.

You are not really running away, you are making a tactical retreat, similar to Doom 2 when you run out of ammo and health and gotta look for some. This is actually one of my favorite aspects in the original. You make a mistake and you gotta retreat, with the monsters coming after you. Earlier in the game I ran out of ammo for all weapons and there were no smaller enemies in sight. I ran for about a minute from an Arachnatron. I love little moments like these.

Once you master the movement you are really quite fast.

 

[A horse of course]

Quit being rude to each other. Remember: You are all God's children.

 

[PompiPompi]

There isn't a lot where to run to. Maybe I just started but the fighting area is pretty small. And there is only a limited amount of ammo placecd in the area.
Meanwhile they shoot you in the back as you slowly stroll toward the ammo.
Doom 2 had much larger areas to walk, you could evade all the projectiles because you ran pretty fast. You just had to zig zag a bit or strafe. You could literaly run and gun.
You can't do that in this game that much.

 

[OctavianRomulus]

There isn't a lot where to run to. Maybe I just started but the fighting area is pretty small. And there is only a limited amount of ammo placecd in the area.
Meanwhile they shoot you in the back as you slowly stroll toward the ammo.
Doom 2 had much larger areas to walk, you could evade all the projectiles because you ran pretty fast. You just had to zig zag a bit or strafe. You could literaly run and gun.
You can do that in this game that much.

It sounds like you are quite early on. You gotta learn the rules of the game.

I think in this game you are supposed to make quick judgements about whether to run to a pickup or use the chainsaw to get some. It depends on the situation. You can get bunched up while you use the chainsaw but in other situations it gives you breathing room for making a decision. Pickups are valuable because you might need rockets but don't want to waste fuel just for them. It all goes back to Eternal being a battle for survival where mistakes are swiftly punished but you can recoup just as switftly as opposed to Doom 2 where it's more of a battle of attrition, where small mistakes add up and can affect you across the whole map.

 

[vortex]

yeah bro tell me how nudoom is so much better than icewind dale

Pete Hines likes icewind dale more than anything.

 

[karoliner]

So it's better that the first game? I need something to do during the quarantine.

 

[PompiPompi]

There isn't a lot where to run to. Maybe I just started but the fighting area is pretty small. And there is only a limited amount of ammo placecd in the area.
Meanwhile they shoot you in the back as you slowly stroll toward the ammo.
Doom 2 had much larger areas to walk, you could evade all the projectiles because you ran pretty fast. You just had to zig zag a bit or strafe. You could literaly run and gun.
You can do that in this game that much.

It sounds like you are quite early on. You gotta learn the rules of the game.

I think in this game you are supposed to make quick judgements about whether to run to a pickup or use the chainsaw to get some. It depends on the situation. You can get bunched up while you use the chainsaw but in other situations it gives you breathing room for making a decision. Pickups are valuable because you might need rockets but don't want to waste fuel just for them. It all goes back to Eternal being a battle for survival where mistakes are swiftly punished but you can recoup just as switftly as opposed to Doom 2 where it's more of a battle of attrition, where small mistakes add up and can affect you across the whole map.

Is this quick judgement or just random choices that once in a while work out? Kind of like candy crush.

In Doom 2 you could eventually play on the hardest settings, and if you got used to the run and gun, you could have fought a swarm of maybe 200 enemies, and it wouldn't be too hard.
I mean, it's a game that after a certain level of learning curve, it's not that hard anymore.
That is not necessarily a bad thing.

Maybe Eternal Doom is a case where the first levels are shitty, and you need to suffer through it to get to the good part. Not a really good game design, even I do mistakes like that in my games.
The fact you don't really have a death match in this game, is a bit revealing about it. Even in the multiplayer you have ton of resource economy/management that you don't really need that much in a good FPS deathmatch.

It is quite a different game from more classic FPSes, maybe people like this.
For me it seems too slow and tactical, relying a lot less on running and gunning, less on accurate shots from a distance, and more close shooting to maximize the damage of the little ammo you have and more making tactical choices. Assuming those tactical choices are chess like, and not candy crush like that after trying enough times you will get through the level.

 

[Curratum]

Pirating right now, I need proof to back up my icy disdain! :D

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

So it's better that the first game? I need something to do during the quarantine.

I'm not far enough in to say for certain but right now, nope. The combat is pretty annoying in this. I don't remember running out of ammo constantly in Doom 2016. Also there's very little exploration in this. Doom 2016 definitely impressed me more in the early goings.

Also are you being forced into quarantine? If not, stop being such a pussy and live your life.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

"I wonder how Doom Eternal is."

*Sees enemy explode into neon pink.*

"I wonder how DOOM 64 is."