Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)

[Cyberarmy]

The real delight is when your team picks 5 carries despite people telling retards to get support chars after 2 picks - and the other team picks 2 supports and you know it's gg from second 1 but can't quit because low priority queue is even worse.

thats why i dont play all pick, in the slight hope in random draft arent enough hard carries to pick in the pool.

Same here, only playing SD and AR if I'm alone. Sometimes I got heroes that I don't like to play with but still better than AP games.
My last 3 AP games were just like MetalCraze mentioned, 2-3 of them picked carries as soon as game started (sniper, drow, weaver trio in one of them games...) and others waited till last second and then picked carries...

 

[Kane]

The real delight is when your team picks 5 carries despite people telling retards to get support chars after 2 picks - and the other team picks 2 supports and you know it's gg from second 1 but can't quit because low priority queue is even worse.

that's the fascist boot that keeps on stomping on your neck.

 

[Wulfstand]

Zed is a gigantic phaggot for not playing doto with me.

 

[Zed]

Zed is a gigantic phaggot for not playing doto with me.

Basically, I only want play if you grab me as I start the client.
I'm writing my Master's thesis and my gaming is 100% sporadic at the moment.

 

[Cromwell]

Same here, only playing SD and AR if I'm alone. Sometimes I got heroes that I don't like to play with but still better than AP games.
My last 3 AP games were just like MetalCraze mentioned, 2-3 of them picked carries as soon as game started (sniper, drow, weaver trio in one of them games...) and others waited till last second and then picked carries...

I gave up on singleD as I realized since you always get one int/str/agi there will almost always be a carry for them to choose. Then again sd had fewer games with lancer.

 

[MetalCraze]

All pick is good to try and learn many chars vs. human players but after you understood enough of them - it's better to just avoid AP

 

[Hoodoo]

Dont get Russians on Oceanic servers, but waiting for loaders and your vsing 3-4 people with asian characters in their names you know your in for it.

 

[Merkwürdigliebe]

6.78 has patch notes are up with two new heroes, and a whole lot of good changes.

http://www.playdota.com/changelogs/6.78

Got some interesting stuff such as suicide stone, cancer lancer nerfed and a new active ability for Skelington king.

Bloodstone
- Initial charges increased from 6 to 8
- Can be activated to instantly kill yourself

This will cause it to trigger the AoE heal that always happens when you die with Bloodstone. 300 second cooldown. Targets the ground to be used, to help prevent accidental usage.

Bottle
- While empty, Bottle causes couriers to move 30% slower

Bottle crowing just got buffed.

Gem of True Sight
- Gem can no longer be destroyed
- Gold cost increased from 700 to 850

Necrolyte
- If a unit dies under Reaper's Scythe, it will be credited to Necrolyte
- Aghanim's Reaper's Scythe causes buyback to be disabled on heroes it kills for that death

This one is particularly interesting as well. Can we see him picked more in competitive play now?

 

[Cyberarmy]

- Aghanim's Reaper's Scythe causes buyback to be disabled on heroes it kills for that death

Wow, nice patch and that one is something big. Can easly turn the tables but still very situational.
Also Medusa's ulti changed a lot too, can be a powerfull disabler if used right.

Edit: LOL. friggin Omni's ulti is global with Aghanim's now

 

[Malakal]

I love Medusa change as far as lore is considered, makes a lot more sense now. Unfortunately wont fix her.

Nerfs on heroes you could expect it (cancer, gyro, LD) and some quite surprising buffs, love the one on WD. Aghanim on silencer now makes ult last one more second AND applies curse to each enemy hero. Thats some serious dmg and mana burn there.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Yeah, silencer is one of favorite heroes and really liked that adition. And saw WD buffs after reading your post. At least we don't need to hug enemies before malediction now

 

[subotaiy]

Blloodstone instant suicide deny.. it's too much.

 

[Malakal]

Blloodstone instant suicide deny.. it's too much.

300s. cd. But its still very good. I can see bloodstone being even more used in pro games.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Aghanims on both Omni and Necrolyte are horribly overhyped, atm. With Necro, this no-buyback issue begins to truly matter only from, like, minute 40 and onwards, and Necro just isn't meant for games that long. He's an early game hero, and if you don't finish the game fast with him, it's not like you'll have great chances of actually killing that hero you're aiming for. As for the Omni - having a glyph as ulti isn't that great. I mean, you usually glyph at that stage so your team can gather for a 5v5 battle, and that's where you'll want that guardian angel, not before that. Yeah, it's helluva useful if they're killing your throne and you just need a few seconds to baserush them... But situations like that happen only when you've seriously fucked up your game, so maybe an easier solution to that maladie would be not letting Omni farm useless items.

Aghs on Ancient Apparition is even more ridiculous - nah, it's awesome and stuff, but how do you actually farm 4300 on AA? It's not like we're in TI 1 era where AA was an awesome mid-hero and one of the first picks. Unless your team has, like, 20k gold advantage over your opponents (i.e., you're pawning them hard), I just don't see how AA can afford it. And same goes for earthshaker's upgrade (only his is much more insignificant - it's more of a rare "dota 10 top weekly" material). Doombringer is also sorta meh - I mean, unlimited duration is fine and dandy, but doom has a freaking 15 seconds duration. Whom must you fight so it survives that? Like, Pudge with a 100 kills (nice buff to the pudge, btw - extra 0.7 strength per kill is by now way insignificant number). This infinite thing is cute, but meaningless.

Silencer aghs is awesome, though, here I agree fully. With easy lane silencer, it can be rushed relatively early and 1.5k damage distributed between the opposing team evenly is nothing to scoff at. I also really like Shadow Shaman's aghs buffs - it doubles the damage from his wards, and just imagine how quickly tier-3 building will drop under that. Not sure if solo-mid rhasta is anywhere near viable atm, though.

As for the other changes I like:

Broodmother got a nice buff. You can never have enough spiders with her, and 60% miss makes MKB a must have item against her. I mean, it's not even about 60% in the end - it's about 30% in the beginning (because you're unlikely to put another point into incapacitating bite for quite a while), that's a huge starting number.

Centaur Warchief finally making it to CM is awesome - can't wait to see pros utilizing this hero.

CM's buff is nice, but still not enough. Now her mana recharging capabilities finally can rival kotl's ones, but she's still not as versatile (nor even as fast) as he so I doubt we'll see her often.

Dazzle's shallow grave into BKB is awesome. He was already a fringe pick from time to time, but now I think we'll see him more often.

Earthshaker's turn rate change is probably huge. Remember - the biggest reason for batrider becoming a tier-1 hero was a change to his turn rate. Sure, bat is a different hero, utilizing hit & run tactics constantly where that stuff truly matters, but shaker is totally dependent on his fissure plasement, and I'm sure being less of a tard will help that immensely.

I like timbersaw's changes. Probably not enough to make him viable, but it's good that he gets buffed.

I also like Huskar's rework. Before he was kinda silly - yeah, you have million damage when you're low, but couple of nukes and that damage goes straight into grave. Now his damage output is smaller, yes, but he isn't afraid of nukes anymore - at 30% health he'll take, like, what? 25% magical damage? And if you'll buy a casual planeswalker's cloak, that'll be like 18%? Pretty awesome. So instead of rushing bkb, you can probably invest in strength boosting items - definitely armlet first, then straight into heart? Linkens? Heaven's halberd? Or maybe satanic? Theoretically, anything that gives lots of strength must be awesome on him.

Lich's buff is awesome - i won't be surprised if he'll return to the pro-scene now. Almost 1.5 increase to his ult's damage is just too much to ignore - it's freaking 2100 (after resistance) damage on lvl 1. And those extra bumps mean you can even be somewhat wasteful with them - now it's fine to hit a creep or two or three or four.

Meepo's change is nice to see - he can never have enough magic resistance. Yeah, he's utterly loathed in pubs, but he can be such an interesting hero to watch on the pro-scene. Theoretically, at least.

Nightstalker's got a nice change - he's all about early game ganking, so getting his IAS bonus rescaled is real good for him.

Razor's ult got totally overbuffed (especially with aghanim's), but I wish he made it easier for this hero to lane instead.

And I totally love what has been done with Skeleton King - -20% max hp is a helluva strong nuke, and just for 30 mana! Yeah, they'll return after 7 seconds, but that's if your target lives for that long. My only concern is that adding an extra button to this hero might make him a little bit complicated to use.

 

[Malakal]

Aghanim on omni is crazy good because it also heals towers that dont normally regen. And you dont even have to be anywhere near, you fight in the middle of the map while healing your damaged towers. Of course he wont be able to farm it anyway.

 

[Merkwürdigliebe]

Ok so here is an idea, Tinker with bloodstone. Rearm bloodstone and suicide deny your self every single time you are about to die.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Ok so here is an idea, Tinker with bloodstone. Rearm bloodstone and suicide deny your self every single time you are about to die.

Get Refresher Orb too for more lulz?

 

[Damned Registrations]

The huskar rework will make him utterly worthless. If you're low enough that a single spell was going to kill you, you'd also die to just being stunned + bopped by the enemy carry. So you still need the bkb, only now you can't farm it because you have no base damage, so jungling, clearing ancients, roshing, and split pushing are all completely impossible.

I can only surmise that the people behind this change are complete morons who don't realize huskar's survivability and usefulness relies on lifesteal + free damage.

 

[Pope Amole II]

only now you can't farm it because you have no base damage, so jungling, clearing ancients, roshing, and split pushing are all completely impossible.

Sorry, man, but you're talking shit here. If you haven't noticed it, it wasn't a simple exchange of Huskar's damage for magic resist - he also gained a significantly larger IAS gain in the process. Let's do some math.

Old Huskar, 1st level. 3 ias per stack, 2 damage per stack. Let's say, 5 stacks. Starting items - 2 gauntlets, 2 branches, regen. So his damage output is 43,5 base + 10 from stacks + 8 from items - 61,5. Basic ias - 0,22. Now, what's his damage output? ((1+0,15+0,22)/1,6)*61,5=52,6 damage per second.

New huskar, 2nd level. 8 ias per stack, no dmg, same 5 stacks, same starting items. Damage output of ((1+0,4+0,22)/1,6)*51,5=52,14 damage per second. Fucking bitches, stealing huskar's damage!

But ok, ok, it's lvl 1, it doesn't really count. Let's take level 7. You've gained 14 natural strength and agility, then 4 strength and agility from putting 2 skill points into stats. In terms of items you have, let's say, threads and a pair of bracers, that's 20 strength gained, 6 agility and +6 damage. 30 ias from threads too. That's 87,5 damage and 74 ias. Blood is obviously maxed. Let's count it for the same 5 stacks:

Old huskie, 12 ias & 8 dmg per stack: ((1+0,74+0,6)/1,6)*(87,5+40)=186,4 dmg per second.

New huskie, 20 ias per stack: ((1+0,74 +1)/1.6)*87.5=149,8 dmg per second.

Yeah, that's a loss, I'll give you that. Old one has 25% more dmg at this point. However, what if there's a fucking Luna on the team? Say, lunar blessing lvl 3.

Old: ((1+0,74+0,6)/1,6)*(87,5+40+30)= 230 dmg per second.

New: ((1+0,74 +1)/1.6)*(87.5+30)= 201 dmg per second.

So new also loses, but suddenly, it's only a 14% more damage. Because, unlike with simple damage bonus, IAS bonus actually scales and gets better with each level and item you acquire, so while I'm too lazy to do more math, I'm sure that the new huskie doesn't lose much in the early & mid-game (compared to old one) and is much, much better in late.

And you can't just say that magic resistance means shit - by that logic, Morph (who has no resistance, but sudden strength gain, which is basically same shit - more spells absorbed) also needs to go bkb else he's stunned & killed before he can morph, but all the good morphs went linken's(and that's what modern huskars may do, btw, especially with linken's buff).

 

[Castanova]

If you have low enough health (I think it's something like 30-40%), you'll be magic damage immune. Which means you could theoretically initiate, pop a casual ghost scepter, and attack with your orb. You'll literally be invulnerable for 4 seconds. But, yeah, you could still be stunned.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You're basing your numbers on having very few stacks. 5 stacks is less than 30% missing health. Lets try with 10 stacks instead (About 60% missing, which is where you want to be at to get the best benefit out of inner vitality, and tends to be the point where you self sustain from lifesteal while farming shit like stacks of dragons.) And bracers are retarded to build on huskar, he's starved for inventory space trying to get lifesteal, usually dust so he can gank properly, tp scroll, and building multi component items like an armlet or bkb. You also wouldn't want to put points in stats that early.


Level 7 With helm of the dominator (which should favour the new build mind you, no IAS, just flat damage) 2 gauntlets and brown boots, we're looking at 58 base damage, +20+6 for a total of 84. Base attack speed is a BAT of 1.6 with 34% IAS from agi.

So, toss in the 10 stacks and we get

Old: 164 damage and 154% IAS. DPS works out to 164*2.54/1.6 = 260.35
New: 84 damage and 234% IAS. DPS works out to 84*3.34/1.6 = 175.35

Thats a loss of a third of his dps. Or, to phrase it the way you did, old huskar does 50% more damage than new huskar. Which is ALSO a loss of a third of his life stealing, which is a major chunk of his regen and effective hp at this point. Obviously, this gets even worse as you add more stacks, and a skilled player abuses being at ~20% life frequently in conjunction with map awareness to do things like kill Roshan, farm extremely quickly, and out base race an entire team of 5 enemy heroes all by himself while his other 4 allies blunt a push down to nothing.

I'd make some stupid connection about "What if there's a beastmaster/wisp/ogre magi!!!!ONE" but I'm too lazy to do math for that too. Suffice to say your point about Luna was irrelevant.

I WILL point out however, that at around level 3-5, you're going to have one hell of a time trying to out last hit someone mid with huskar's piss poor base damage with only shitty ass IAS to back you up, instead of being able to edge them out by 20-30 damage and guarantee they can only last hit what you let them by denying with your superior base damage. And god forbid they have a 250 gold item that is going to cut your harassment down far more effectively than it ever did before.

And late game? Well, the primary difference is going to be a ton of +stats, IAS from treads and armlet (which is still too good to pass up because of armlet toggling and helping control your life total) making that IAS even less relevant because instead of adding ~200 IAS to a base of 134 it'll be adding to a base of 200+ and doing proportionally much less (and quite possibly hitting the IAS cap, making it utterly useless too.)

Huskar already had so much IAS that it made more sense to go for flat damage than IAS when given the option, trading damage for IAS at a 1:1 ratio (which, you'll notice, isn't how it's valued on items at all, with a hyperstone being worth only 2100 vs a relic at 3800, or claws giving 9 vs 15 from gloves of haste) is a massive penalty that is 'made up' by something that is at best a niche benefit against and handful of heroes that have high magic damage attacks but no stuns, like Skywrath or Pugna. Which tend to get fucking raped by huskar anyways because you'll outlevel them, have + stats and an armlet giving you a stupidly huge hp to burn off before those nukes can actually threaten you. Meanwhile, shit like Pudge still rapes you, because he'll just bite after you jump, then hook after for the kill doing full damage. About the only hero this really changes things for is QoP, who goes from being able to blink in and end you at low life to being just unkillable like any other blink hero with half a brain.


So obviously, you need some kind of new build for the new huskar. But whatever it is, it'll be shittier, because it can't possibly farm as fast or be as dangerous. At best it might be harder to kill IF you can get completely babysat for long enough to farm up 80% as well or so.

Lastly, we don't know how the magic resistance is going to be stacking, but I'd imagine it'll be like everything else works, which means that you won't be immune until 15 stacks (98% life missing) which at best means you can't die to Venomancer. Woo. Unless he has a lvl 1 ward. But generally speaking something like a Lina ult for 950 getting blunted down to a very shitty ~200 because you're at 25% health will be funny, won't actually matter because she'll just light strike you for the 2 second stun and then get in 6 auto attacks for ~400 damage after armor considerations, killing you. So you still need the fucking bkb.

Morphling didn't need the bkb because he didn't need to be at 50% hp when a fight starts to deal damage. He could enter a fight at full 2000 hp and still be wrecking shit with 150 agi. The new huskar can't do that. If you walk into the fight at 100% hp everyone is going to ignore your piddly 100 damage right clicks until your whole team is dead, then they'll chain stun your ass.

 

[Hellraiser]

Valve just showered me with 25 Dotas, I guess there is no kill like overkill.

I'll offload some on the Dota 2 Invitation bot but if a bro is somehow missing an invitation (is it even fucking possible a this point?) ask and ye shall receive.

 

[Malakal]

Yeah, everyone has those now, I have like 20 too.

Also Im happy to announce that the new patch is in. New bugs too. VOLVOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

 

[Metro]

So I was just playing around in a few co-op versus bot matches and my computer froze. Not knowing you could simply reconnect after a crash I guess I left the match and got put in the 'Punishment Pool.' So I figured this lasted a couple of games but then looked it up and realized it's 24 hours? Guess I understand that... somewhat... but fuck 'dat I'll go play something else.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Just happened to me yesterday night, I really hate trigger happy Tiny s...