Game News Dragon Age concept art wallpaper

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Well, I only lock threads that get too long. It doesn't mean the original posts don't register, because they often do.

I know. I just felt a bit peeved at typing a response, then get out and go watch a soccer game, then coming back and trying to post only to fnd the thread locked. Heh, it happens.

 

[triCritical]

At least Bio hasn't degraded down to putting boobies on box art

Now I wonder how her boobies would flip-flop when she runs...

Now those b00b13s are definately fake. Just proves artist are gay, and the only b00b13s they ev4r saw was on skinemax.

 

[Transcendent One]

The highlights are really off. Looks like she has a light bulb hidden between them.

 

[Quisling]

Odd to see David posting on rpgcodex without being continuously flamed, kind of like a benign apocalypse.

Wallpaper: wasn't so much the presence of boobs that got me irked, it was the lack of any sort of joy, concept, personality, or overarching theme, as though the various elements were designed in a complete vacuum without the direction of a decent art lead.

Did the designers and artists communicate much during the creation of the demo? Was the art lead on the demo the concept guy? is the concept guy the art lead on DA?

Anyways, hope the ginuwine DA art is sweeter.

 

[taks]

Yes, actually. I actually wanted to do him first... at least he was nice to you, if a bit fru-fru.

ewww....
taks

 

[taks]

Odd to see David posting on rpgcodex without being continuously flamed, kind of like a benign apocalypse.

well, he is half-way, maybe even mostly, agreeing with the general direction of the posts. it's probably safe to say the designers aren't the final authority on marketing issues, nor the artwork that goes into them. that said, IMO, they should be. at least, they should have some artistic control over how their designs are depicted to the masses. if they do, and they still allow some of these shameless displays, well, shame on them.

taks

 

[Jed]

Odd to see David posting on rpgcodex without being continuously flamed, kind of like a benign apocalypse.

We only flame him when he deserves it.

 

[Voss]

Theres also the slight issue that most English speaking voice actors haven't the slightest scrap of talent. Or if they do have talent, they're so accustomed to doing goofy voices for cartoons that they can't do a normal voice to save their lives. I watch far too much anime, and I have to say that most of the voice directors have an utter inability to match voices to characters, with some few exceptions.
And then there is the issue of celebrity (at least the instant recognition kind) voice actors, and the less said, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Teatime's assertion that Bioware is a prime culprit in the 'fantasy sex object' is frankly bizarre. Its as old as the fantasy genre, an out-growth of the other side of fantasy (the non-Tolkien stuff, like Howard and Lieber) that grew out of pulp magazines and novels. It just hasn't gone away because marketing folks find it useful.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

Theres also the slight issue that most English speaking voice actors haven't the slightest scrap of talent. Or if they do have talent, they're so accustomed to doing goofy voices for cartoons that they can't do a normal voice to save their lives. I watch far too much anime, and I have to say that most of the voice directors have an utter inability to match voices to characters, with some few exceptions.
And then there is the issue of celebrity (at least the instant recognition kind) voice actors, and the less said, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Teatime's assertion that Bioware is a prime culprit in the 'fantasy sex object' is frankly bizarre. Its as old as the fantasy genre, an out-growth of the other side of fantasy (the non-Tolkien stuff, like Howard and Lieber) that grew out of pulp magazines and novels. It just hasn't gone away because marketing folks find it useful.

My experience of the fantasy genre is limited to Tolkien, and people like the guy who does the Wheel of Time (though it sucks recently), and George R. R. Martin. In the latter's books, by far the weakest parts are the lame sex parts. THe whole 14 year old lesbian plot thing is so pathetic it's laughable and spoils an otherwise excellent series.
Other fantasy authors I've read, I haven't read for long because they tend to suck and drop into the cliche and stereotype that I'm criticising Bioware for here.

EDIT: I forgot to add, I'm a big Terry Pratchett fan who mocks all these fantasy stereotypes, which is the only way to deal with them as far as I'm concerned because to take them seriously is just... stupid.

--
My website - http://www.teatime.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

 

[taks]

unfortunate, but true, voss. on both counts (VO and sex objects).

i understand the gratuitous use of sex in the comic book scene (extremely prevalent there) simply because a.) they are appealing to pre-pubescent teens (not that this is right) and mostly b.) comic books are intentionaly extremely stereotypical... both cases are purely for sales but the market they're appealing to specifically wants this kind of thing.

anyway, my point being that i don't think our so-called "niche" market needs such things for sales.

taks

 

[Jora]

In the latter's books, by far the weakest parts are the lame sex parts. THe whole 14 year old lesbian plot thing is so pathetic it's laughable and spoils an otherwise excellent series.

You can't be serious. And even if you were, I don't think there is enough evidence to say Daenerys is bisexual. IIRC her servant (or something) just wanted to make her feel good and Dany let her do so because the servant is apparently good at that sort of things (because of her training).

 

[Volourn]

Everyone here are geniuses. That's all that needs to be said; but I'll say more anyways. :D

VD, stop the sarcasm. Or not. I like sarcasm. :wink:

X, that would be half true. Who's this 'we' speak of? I doubt it includes Rosh who flames Gaider like he was his mother didn't bring his cookies to the basement quick enough.

 

[taks]

yes, i am, but what's that got to do with anything volourn?

taks

 

[Jora]

Teatime:

This link seems to prove my theory.

3) Dany
-) Dany has a very sexual marriage with Drogo.
+) But after his death she turns to Irri. (268, 814-815 aSoS)
-) Not exactly. After Jorah betrays her she has trouble trusting any man enough to take him to her bed. Irri is a servant and so convenient. She still thinks about men and actually fantasies about Daario while Irri is pleasuring her.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

Teatime:

This link seems to prove my theory.

3) Dany
-) Dany has a very sexual marriage with Drogo.
+) But after his death she turns to Irri. (268, 814-815 aSoS)
-) Not exactly. After Jorah betrays her she has trouble trusting any man enough to take him to her bed. Irri is a servant and so convenient. She still thinks about men and actually fantasies about Daario while Irri is pleasuring her.

It just comes across as horny 14 year old male fantasies to me. I find it very weak, no matter how it's 'justified'.

 

[taks]

yeah...
taks

 

[Voss]

My experience of the fantasy genre is limited to Tolkien, and people like the guy who does the Wheel of Time (though it sucks recently), and George R. R. Martin.

So, what you're really saying is that you need more experience with the fantasy genre because you have very little.
Right. Gotcha.

 

[Jora]

It just comes across as horny 14 year old male fantasies to me. I find it very weak, no matter how it's 'justified'.

I really can't see it that way. It's part of her character and an example of the cultural differrences between Westeros and the eastern lands. She felt she had been betrayed too many times (first by Mirri Maz Duur who killed her unborn child and then by Jorah Mormont who was in contact with Varys and Robert Baratheon) and sought comfort in her handmaiden's arms. Just because the author writes fantasy books doesn't mean they have to be set in a medieval society or that he tries to make his books appealing to teenagers.

 

[Jora]

Edit: double post! :evil:

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

As for my comments specific to the BG2 romances, I speak as a poster on the Bioware boards at the time. A bunch of women complained about having only one crappy romance option for the female character, whereas the men got to pick from three flavours, one for every general alignment.

Personally, I don't like romances in CRPGs at all. I find them silly, superfilous, and annoying. They're something that should stick with Japanese console titles and those goofy dating games, and never work their way outside those genres.

For the record, I fully support men who complain about not having a choice to play anything but over-muscled barbarians in some games.

I always halfway wonder about men who do that. Typically, the overmuscled barbarian looking guys are fighter types, tanks. The kind of guys that just shouldn't look like 90 pound weaklings or 300 pound, cheeto pounding basement dwellers.

And as for disliking the anorexic chainmail bikini iconic women, I'm sticking with that one. I love looking at beautiful women, but those chicks usually look like 2-bit strippers, and they're dressed completely inappropriately for what they're supposed to be doing. Like a lot of people of various genders said earlier, give me box art with beautiful women who look like adventureres. Then we'll all be happy.

I don't find the chainmail bikini fighter chicks any less appropriate than the shaggy loin clothed barbarian men, which are acceptable in the fantasy setting. Up until Kevin Sorbo, I didn't know Hercules had any shirts.

 

[DamnElfGirl]

The guys I know who complain about the overmuscled barbarian thing are usually complaining when there's only one male character model for all professions. Sneak-thieves and puny mages just shouldn't look like they've been working out at Gold's 24/7. I mean, imagine if the Vault Dweller model looked like Kevin Sorbo? For most iterations of the VD, that would have been stupid.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I do agree that gratious boobies isn't really needed. At least not for me (shocking I know :D ); but it surely doesn't ruin it either. As long as the character in question has an interesting backstory and personality; their looks such as they are really don't worry me. Heck, Jaheira isn;t the best looking pixel around yet she';s one of my favorite female characters. WOWSERS!

She's also portrayed as being quite emotionally retarded. Just a few days after the death of her husband and long time companion Khalid, she romances the PC. How realistic. It's like something an adolescent would think of. "Girl's boyfriend dies, I move in and fill in for him!"

The 'exuse' ofr lack of female roamnce options may seem unfair but from a development prospective it makes sense. Which BIO devs have a 'horrible attitude' towards female gamners? Last ic hecked, they get along fine with female gamers. In fact they've banned and punished certain males when their sexism got out of hand.

That doesn't excuse the fact that the majority of Bio devs have a tendency to regard women in the same way a horny teenage boy does in their portrayal of women in games. It's hardly fair to portray all of the lead females in games as selfish, foolish, weak, emotionally retarded and/or incredibly annoying. I'll list them out one by one:

Jaheira: Emotionally retarded. Weak. Foolish. Grieves over the loss of her husband for a couple of days and moves on to romance the PC because she's feeling 'lonely' and needs someone to confide in.

Aerie: Incredibly annoying voice and personality. Can't get over the loss of her wings because she used to be great once, and is traumatized. Behaves like a very small child. Naive and trusting. Is still a virgin, and has sex with the PC (or Haer'Dalis) to show she's matured.

Imoen: Relatively annoying but not as much as the others. Is a classic "Damsel in Distress" a la Princess Leia whom you discover to be your sister. Is mildly psychotic. Freudian sexual connection to PC.

Nalia: Pampered bitch. Proud, and very arrogant in trying to appear selfless and looks down on poor people by 'helping' them though she means well. Naive and childlike, like shes trying to show society that rich people can be non-assholes, and in doing so, behaves very much like an asshole.

Viconia: Sadomasochistic and psychotic. Has the potential to become a good person, so long as the PC has sex with her and shows her how to be a nice person. Very selfish (wants to keep PC for herself), and gets jealous very easily. Has a horrible temper.

All of them with the exception of Nalia are damsels in distress, when the evil Bodhi chick kidnaps them.

Mazzy is probably the only mature, realistic female in BG2. But she's a damn hobbit.

Aribeth: Selfish. Annoying. Foolish. Naive. Weak. Emotionally retarded. Sacrifices all that she has worked for as a Paladin to avenge Fenthick's death - which was entirely justified, him being an idiot and all. Refuses to listen to the PC about Fenthick's involvement with the bad guy and sends him off to do stupid errands while she sits at the home base and sells you weapons.

The bard chick: Token hot chick party member in NWN.

Juhani: Strange. Foolish. Has had a crush on the PC ever since she was a small child back when his name was Revan. Joined the Dark Side because she's emotionally imbalanced and was pissed off about something irrelevent (losing control over her emotions and hurting a Jedi in combat).

Bastila: Foolish. Naive. Emotionally weak. Annoying. Keeps lecturing the PC about the light side and does a complete 180 in spite of her Jedi training. She thinks she's the boss even though she can't come up with any plans. Pretends to be intelligent. Has feelings for the player and says things like "stop blabbering and kiss me, you fool." when you're trying to talk to her.

Mission Vao: Childish, but she's 14. Naive as shit.

Also, you should talke for 'many of us female gamers'. There are many females who just don't care about it.

And what about those who do? Are their opinions irrelevent?

There are more important things to worry about.

Like what, world war? Disease? Famine in Somalia? Pfft, you're getting ahead of yourself.

Ask the ladies who complained about no choice of PC sex in PST, or the 'sexist' take on statistics in Arcanum. It's true though and I agree that the chocie for the iconic figures is cheesy; but so what.

So they're poorly portrayed and therefore crap. I don't think too many people would have liked the Erin Brockovich movie if the character was played by Anna Nicole Smith and behaved like a ditz 100% of the time.

Perhaps, you should stop being sexist and worry more aboiut the wanton violence in Bioware games. Afterall, you kill 100s of beings in their games.

Apprehension of disbelief, maybe?

WOWSERS! It's funny you complain about the rom,ance scripts in BG2 yet when a woman gamer tends enjoy most out of BG2 9at least the vocal ones since I won't speak for most since no one can) they tend to say they enjoyed the romances the most.

Are you sure those are women you're talking to? Maybe 14 year olds, like Jenna? Yeah, she's a great candidate for a woman.

In fact, as we all know, the streotypical males "hate" the mushy stuff.

Can't speak for everyone, but I certainly hated them. They felt very out of place and unrealistic. I much prefer the chemistry between the Nameless One and Annah and FFG, which were much more well done and realistic. Romance doesn't happen overnight. You care about a person, and she cares about you, but you don't necessarily connect the two dots with a line that's sealed by the act of fucking. You let the intensity build up, and that's where it's at. Having two people talking about mushy shit like

Aerie: "I'm pregnant with your child"

or

Viconia: "I've never felt like this"

is just something an adolescent, immature teenager would dream up - and that doesn't even happen in teenage romances, unless you're a fan of Dawson's Creek and so's your girlfriend and you think that the only reason to have a romance and have sex is because it's the 'it thing' to do.

Haven't played Primal and Good & Evil; and it's gonan take more than good voice acting to get me to play them too. Sorry.

There's plenty of other good reasons, as myself and EvoG have stated in another thread. Perhaps you'll say something less ignorant in the future.

In conclusion, while it would be nice if BIo (and other dev companies) were to have more "realistic" women (haha! realism in fantasy games lol); the fact they have women with big boobs means nothing as long as those women with big boobs have ana ctual personalty and good backstory. As for being scantily clad, most real women do go running around scantily clad. Beaches anyone?

As far as I can tell, a winter setting with dungeons and armies marching around is definitely not a day at the beach. If I recall correctly, beaches are supposed to be places of leisure and relaxation. Running around in a bikini top with arrows whizzing past you and the sound of swords and hammers striking upon chain and platemail isn't a good idea.

 

[Sol Invictus]

By the way, I don't like the idea of having ugly protagonists in any game, male or female. It's one thing to be respectful of the sexes by not oversexualizing them by making them run around half naked in a battlefield or in a snowscape but completely another when you force me to look at some fat ugly protagonist. It's not exactly iconic to have a character with severe glutton-related problems. You don't see any anorexic Kate Moss's running around in games, for that matter.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Has anyone at Bioware ever considered investing in a fluid, 3D model morphing system for purposes of character creation? Something in the lines of Phantasy Star Online, where you can adjust your character's physique in regards to height and weight trough sliders, but more well developed? It isn't necessarily an optimal solution, but it would allow for a more maleable customization (for those that care about it and complain against the repetitive uber bodies).

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Having two people talking about mushy shit like

Aerie: "I'm pregnant with your child"

or

Viconia: "I've never felt like this"

is just something an adolescent, immature teenager would dream up

You're lucky you didn't get hentai one-liners.