Game News Dragon Age FAQ: bullshit vs reality

[Diogo Ribeiro]

God forgives

The Codex doesn't. End of story.

 

[bryce777]

What can I say? I'm a man of many rare skills, like reading, for example. Using only my gift of recognizing letters, I was able to learn that "That FAQ was written before the story was" (see the news post). Then, using my superior deductive reasoning and complicated time charts, I arrived to the conclusion that all that stuff about enslaving nations is bullshit because the story wasn't written yet. Thus, the person in question enthusiastically made it up.

Now, bow to my vast powahz and stop embarrassing yourself.

You really are a man of limited intelligence, aren't you? The point is you do NOT know that somebody made it up. It is just as likely that the feature was originally planned but as the story was developed it no longer made sense. But that's no fun! It's much more fun to rush to judgment and be the codex moral crusader! The leader of the tiny resistance fighting against the evil empire (big, soulless rpg companies).

All I know is this: if God watches every word you speak and write as closely as you do the words of rpg marketing people and judges you like you do them, you are in BIG, BIG trouble...

First off, god forgives, so if you screw up once in a while then it's no big deal. Especially if there is no harm intended.

Second, I don't always agree with the VD here, but he is one of the very, very few people here who is capable of presenting a coherent argument without resorting to hostility. An actual argument, not just going back and forth in circles disagreeing.

Now, I am not saying the VD is infallible but usually his arguments generally make sense even if his basic values and believes are not always the same as my own.

It is pretty obvious that the changes between enslaving nations with necromancy and raising a skeleton are pretty major. Much different than say, well we were gonna have monks but now we'll have warriors who can just use the unarmed skill. Sorry guys, NO MONK MODELS FOR YUO.

Also, his opinion is hardly irrational, or something he has layed into them for ad nauseum like some people do the blunt weapons in oblivion. Or like a lot of the bansheelike irrationals like tintin who constantly complain not about games but about people here. Well, sorry dude, but the software in their heads has already gone gold so to speak, so it truly is useless to do that.

Take yourself. I can hardly take you seriously, because you find any obscure, pathetic way to work god into any conversation here. It is difficult to believe this is not some act, to be honest. If it is, then you should be ashamed of yourself if you are trying to mock people of faith. If not, then I apologize for that last bit, but I think you should lighten up a bit and perhaps be a tad less judgemental. I am at times here, but it is meant in a jovial sort of way. For the most part.

Thanks for the well reasoned reply. Trust me, my talking about God is not an act, it is sincere. Yes, God forgives, but only if a person repents of their sin and turns to Christ for forgiveness. I don't deny that I have been heavy on the Law, but it is because of all the mocking of God and Christianity that I see here (whether in jest or not). Mostly, though, I do it because I truly want everyone (including everyone here) to be right with God. My life with God is a 24/7 thing.

As for VD, he is a shrewd observer and, I agree, usually quite articulate in arguing and explaining. But he does have a tendency of taking statements out of context and putting them in the worst possible light in order to serve his purpose. I agree with him much of the time. But when I don't, and I perceive him to be "crucifying" someone unfairly, I react and respond, just to bring sunshine into his life.

I will try to lighten up, though. For the most part, I enjoy what I read here.

Well, perhaps I am being too judgemental myself, but I sometimes have not been able to tell if you are serious. I don't think VD is lying or trying to paint people in a light he does not perceive them in thougj, which is the only sin I could imagine you are speaking of.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You really are a man of limited intelligence, aren't you?

If you have any complaints, please direct them to God. That's how he made me.

The point is you do NOT know that somebody made it up. It is just as likely that the feature was originally planned but as the story was developed it no longer made sense.

You, ExMonk, are an apologist. No matter what happens, people like you are always trying to find some explanation, no matter how ridiculous, that would justify everything. People like you are posting "why the cuts are good" thread at TES forums because they are unable to believe that their beloved DEVS may do something wrong.

Anyway, I'm surprised I have to explain that, but enslaving nations is a huge fucking feature, it's not a minor thing like a few skills or even minor location that was cut because developers ran out of time. It's a feature so big, that half of the gameplay should revolve around it, leading toward that moment, that choice, and then supporting it. It's not something that could be removed without collapsing the entire game. Unless, of course, it was a bullshit endgame feature - you made the evil choice, so you became very evil and eventually enslaved the universe with necromancy. Tada!

Do you get it now?

But that's no fun! It's much more fun to rush to judgment and be the codex moral crusader! The leader of the tiny resistance fighting against the evil empire (big, soulless rpg companies).

Once again, I'm not fighting anything or anyone. I simply share my opinions that you are welcome to discuss and argue against.

All I know is this: if God watches every word you speak and write as closely as you do the words of rpg marketing people and judges you like you do them, you are in BIG, BIG trouble...

Don't worry, when the time comes, God and I will sort it out somehow.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

NWN had no empty promises. It delivered everything it promised.

Very true. I remember being able to import my Baldur's Gate 2 character into... OH SNAP!

 

[Kamaz]

BIO makes RT RPG. They get bashed.

Troika makes RT RPG. They get praised.

Actually...Troika got bashed pretty often here. And COdexers most definetly didnt

suck Troika's dick, and spread lies to boost their self worth.

While of course, I cannot judge the actual balance between Bio and Troika bashing, but it seams Codexers just bash everything to some degree. Besides, you are one long-time codexer as well, so...

 

[bryce777]

haven't played JE, dumbfuck, but you're obviously wrong, of course.

If only we could enslave volourn with necromancy. I would buy ANY game that promised that, or even just hinted at it. Or just let us slowly torture an inagme character named vlolourn.

 

[Vault Dweller]

<snip>

Thanks for the kind words, bryce.

 

[Vault Dweller]

As for VD, he is a shrewd observer and, I agree, usually quite articulate in arguing and explaining. But he does have a tendency of taking statements out of context and putting them in the worst possible light in order to serve his purpose.

Would be nice to have a link or two supporting your "taking statements out of context" comment.

 

[Kamaz]

Anyway, I'm surprised I have to explain that, but enslaving nations is a huge fucking feature,

I think VD's splitting the hair here. Enslaving nations with necromancy doesnt sound like feature..it would be hyped much more in that case. I never expected it to be feature, that is not the point.

The point is that BioWare so blatantly allows their PR hypers crawl into FAQ knowing very well they will never allow "enslaving nations with necromancy" as gameplay (not story) element. No one really cares for that enslaving thing, just give us not-stupid RPG with choices, stats and freedom. Confess, did you really even accepted the possibility of having such feature? IMO it's allways been just poetic bullshit from PR department to help propel this next game.

The hassle is not about missing but announced feature...its about announcing things you'd never implement.

 

[ExMonk]

You, ExMonk, are an apologist. No matter what happens, people like you are always trying to find some explanation, no matter how ridiculous, that would justify everything. People like you are posting "why the cuts are good" thread at TES forums because they are unable to believe that their beloved DEVS may do something wrong.

I could see why you get that impression, but it is not true. I do defend devs when I feel that they are being unfairly, inaccurately, or prematurely criticized. But I do not defend everything they do. I just don't choose to post when I do, which is often, because practically everyone else here does it constantly. Thus the impression is given, but it is false impression, that I defend everything, etc. For example, I am getting increasingly annoyed at Bethsoft for forever emasculating a game I have been looking forward to.

Contrariwise, you so often criticize certain companies that you give the impression that no matter what they do, and no matter what explanation they give, they are "damned." And you often do so prematurely. I could just as easily say to you, that you, VD, are an antagonist. No matter what happens you attack and criticize. But that is not true. Neither is it true I always defend.

As for you, I appreciate much of what you write. But so often you come across as someone with a gigantic chip on your shoulder, someone who has been wronged by the rpg establishment and is extremely bitter. Perhaps if I had been around here longer, I'd understand.

FTR, what led to my post in this thread was your response to andrej. He simply called for some restraint in the criticism of Dave G. You characterized it as giving Dave a "blowjob" and "whining". THat's funny, I thought the guy was simply expressing a different point of view. Then you basically told him, if you don't like our criticism go someplace else. Hence my comment about "don't criticize the criticizers."

Anyway, enough of this.

Finally, and trust me on this one, and I say this with all sincerity, do NOT put off sorting things out with God until "the time comes." When the time comes it will be too late.

 

[Vault Dweller]

"we love his company and his style"

Bullshit. I hope this line is sarcasm 'cause it isn't true.

I don't think Dave would be coming here if he was hated or felt unwelcome. Just some common sense.

"Codex'ers just want good RPGs and they stand up for it."

Bullshit.

a) The Codex wants good RPGs made the way they want.

So, where is the flaw? The Codex wants good RPGs and has a good idea what a good RPG is, thus wanting RPGs made the way they want.

b) Anyone that thinks games like TOEE or the old GB games are the eptium of RPGs doesn't know what a RPG is.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that ToEE is the best and the deepest RPG there is.

BIO makes RT RPG. They get bashed.

Troika makes RT RPG. They get praised.

Have you seen my review?

"NWN empty promises ring any bells?"

NWN had no empty promises. It delivered everything it promised. Delusions of the slef worth of your lowly opinion means crap.

Your memory, just like your common sense, has failed you.

 

[bryce777]

Anyway, I'm surprised I have to explain that, but enslaving nations is a huge fucking feature,

IMO it's just poetic bullshit from PR department to help propel this next game.

Well, that's the crux of the matter. A faq should answer questions and give actual information, not be a marketing tool full of hyperbole and in some cases outright lies just because they sound cool.

Here is a super, duper annoying parallel. I have to deal with a certain in some ways very crappy product which will remain nameless to protect the guilty and myself. It had really extensive online docs. Yet, trying to find any actual information in them is almost impossible. Pretty much all roads lead to a button to click where you spend 10 grand to pick up the software. Also, all the technical 'whitepapers' are complete fud with no technical info in them, and it is dmn near impossible to get a comprehensive 'known issues' doc out of these people. Everything is seamless intergration this or ease of upgrade that.

They are doing a disservice to me, the customer who has already paid and pays 10k a year for support, and they are doing a disservice to their potential customers because a great number of things they say they have either simply don't work or else they only work in certain ways that are not of great use to many users. basically, they are being shady and dishonest for the sake of a tiny bit more hype.

 

[Volourn]

"Very true. I remember being able to import my Baldur's Gate 2 character into... OH SNAP!"

Except it was announced over a year before NWN's release that things had changed.

Things change. Nor was it a 'promise'.

Anyone who know ANYTHING about devlopment of any product knows things change. Period.

If BIO had released NWN, and didn't state that you couldn't play your BG2 characters than you'd have a point of accusing them of 'broekn promises'; but you don't.

Oh snap.



"I don't think Dave would be coming here if he was hated or felt unwelcome. Just some common sense."

Oh please. He already explains why he come shere. He come shere because onc ein the blue moon some rare Codexer (you being one of those rare ones on occasion but certainly not on this lame thread trying to pretnd a FAQ qaulifies as news in some lame attempt to exuse your lame and illogical bashing) will actually be capable of rational thought and debate.



"has a good idea what a good RPG is"

No, it doesn't. Afterall, according to the Codex the Diablo series is a RPG, Hellgate: London is a RPG, all the BIO games which on one hand you guys claim aren't RPGs yet on the other hand cover when you are supposedly a 'hardcore' RPG site.

You cna talk the bullshit; but you cna't walk the bullshit. You guys have no idea what a RPG, and this is fatcually evdienced by the games you cover in this news section not to mention what passes for news here. Hahaha.


"I don't think anyone has ever claimed that ToEE is the best and the deepest RPG there is."

Hahahaha. You should read Bryce's posts more. Not to mention Tri Critical who 100% beliegves with his very RPG soul that tb combat = RPG. Hahahaha.


"Have you seen my review?"

Have you seen your posts? Sucking their dick as usual trying to blame the publisher for everything, and giving Troika minimal blame for BL's weaknesses while giving them maximal credit for everything that was done right in BL.

It be like me giving BIO all the cxredit for the good stuff in JE, and then shifting all the things I dislike about the game on MS.


"Your memory, just like your common sense, has failed you."

The day I started posting on the Codex belieiving you guys were a hardcore site was the day I lost my common sense.

Hhahaha.


"Actually...Troika got bashed pretty often here."

Define pretty often. Troika bahsing by Codexers as opposed by some who simply post here is very rare and is usually accompanied by the caviat that it was actually the publisher's fault. R00fles!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Contrariwise, you so often criticize certain companies that you give the impression that no matter what they do, and no matter what explanation they give, they are "damned."

No matter what they do? What DO they do? Do they make better games? No. Do they show any interest in making a deep RPG with meaningful choices? No. So?

And you often do so prematurely.

That's your opinion. Where you see nothing and thus bias on my part, I see familiar patterns. For example, when Beth announced that xbows are out, I said that more weapons will be cut or grouped. Needless to say I was accused of being negative. Well, look at it now: 3 weapon skills and 5 weapons. Yay!

I could just as easily say to you, that you, VD, are an antagonist. No matter what happens you attack and criticize. But that is not true. Neither is it true I always defend.

Fair enough

As for you, I appreciate much of what you write. But so often you come across as someone with a gigantic chip on your shoulder, someone who has been wronged by the rpg establishment and is extremely bitter.

Or someone who's fond of a certain type of games that the industry is no longer willing to produce, because there are piles of money could be made by catering to morons.

FTR, what led to my post in this thread was your response to andrej. He simply called for some restraint in the criticism of Dave G. You characterized it as giving Dave a "blowjob" and "whining".

Why don't you reread his post again before you continue to present him as a voice of reason.

THat's funny, I thought the guy was simply expressing a different point of view.

You thought wrong.

Finally, and trust me on this one, and I say this with all sincerity, do NOT put off sorting things out with God until "the time comes." When the time comes it will be too late.

So be it. I have my issues with God, and we will sort them out later.

 

[Volourn]

Fuck God.

 

[Vault Dweller]

"I don't think Dave would be coming here if he was hated or felt unwelcome. Just some common sense."

Oh please. He already explains why he come shere. He come shere because onc ein the blue moon some rare Codexer (you being one of those rare ones on occasion but certainly not on this lame thread trying to pretnd a FAQ qaulifies as news in some lame attempt to exuse your lame and illogical bashing) will actually be capable of rational thought and debate.

How does what you wrote contradict with my comment?

Afterall, according to the Codex the Diablo series is a RPG, Hellgate: London is a RPG, all the BIO games which on one hand you guys claim aren't RPGs yet on the other hand cover when you are supposedly a 'hardcore' RPG site.

How many times should we explain you the policies of the site? Write them down or something. We cover anything that a) claims to be an RPG, even trash like Fable, b) is a PC game, and c) could be played in a single-player mode.

"I don't think anyone has ever claimed that ToEE is the best and the deepest RPG there is."

Hahahaha. You should read Bryce's posts more. Not to mention Tri Critical who 100% beliegves with his very RPG soul that tb combat = RPG. Hahahaha.

Both have points. Neither has claimed that ToEE is the pinnacle of game design.

"Have you seen my review?"

Have you seen your posts? Sucking their dick as usual trying to blame the publisher for everything, and giving Troika minimal blame for BL's weaknesses while giving them maximal credit for everything that was done right in BL.

Does that bullshit come with links? No? Didn't think so. As for me blaming publishers, I stand by my comments, but that's an unrelated issue.

 

[HardCode]

You really are a man of limited intelligence, aren't you? The point is you do NOT know that somebody made it up. It is just as likely that the feature was originally planned but as the story was developed it no longer made sense. But that's no fun! It's much more fun to rush to judgment and be the codex moral crusader! The leader of the tiny resistance fighting against the evil empire (big, soulless rpg companies).

All I know is this: if God watches every word you speak and write as closely as you do the words of rpg marketing people and judges you like you do them, you are in BIG, BIG trouble...

Have you yet to discuss a game on this forum? Every post of yours seems to simply challenge other people's intelligence. Not very Christian-like.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Things change. Nor was it a 'promise'.
Anyone who know ANYTHING about devlopment of any product knows things change. Period.

And isn't the point that "things change" the reason why these things should be kept strictly to the developers themselves rather than announcing it to the whole world? Much like that import dealio, if it wasn't certain at the time, or if it was a feature they felt they could implement but were not totally certain, going to such lenghts as advertising it on Baldur's Gate 2 was plain wrong. To their credit I'm not sure if this was Bioware or Interplay's decision to advertise it in the game, but nonetheless it's a pretty misleading thing to do. In this particular case of the FAQ it doesn't really seem to speak wonders of the way they handle information, and just comes off as that barely contained excitement kids have when they're told a secret and just want to share - only to find out later that Mandy was lying and Kate didn't suck the teacher's dick after all.

 

[ExMonk]

You really are a man of limited intelligence, aren't you? The point is you do NOT know that somebody made it up. It is just as likely that the feature was originally planned but as the story was developed it no longer made sense. But that's no fun! It's much more fun to rush to judgment and be the codex moral crusader! The leader of the tiny resistance fighting against the evil empire (big, soulless rpg companies).

All I know is this: if God watches every word you speak and write as closely as you do the words of rpg marketing people and judges you like you do them, you are in BIG, BIG trouble...

Have you yet to discuss a game on this forum? Every post of yours seems to simply challenge other people's intelligence. Not very Christian-like.

Yes, I have. As recently as today.

Actually, challenging other people's intelligence who unfairly criticize or are abusive of others or God is very Christian. Christ himself did it more than once; so did the prophets and the apostles. You want references? I'll give you references.

 

[Calis]

You want references? I'll give you references.

No, thanks for asking though!

 

[Volourn]

"And isn't the point that "things change" the reason why these things should be kept strictly to the developers themselves rather than announcing it to the whole world?"

Then again, this would simply cause the Codexers to whine that BIo (or other companies) aren't interatcing with the fans enough, not giving enough info out (lol, this already happens).

Things changed. It shouldn't be that big of deal unless like I said that when it does change it is kept a secret. Like if BIO had decided that it would be impossible to import characters and kept it to themselves. Then that would be worth whining about.

As for the FAQ not being accurate, the hilarty here is that a BIO rep themselves pointed out that the comment of 'being a necro and enslaving nations' was no longer viable and they did it at least a year (maybe even two) before DA is even released. Now, on the other hand, if BIO hadn't in some way cleared that up, and the game came out,a nd you couldn't enslave nations with necro magic that you'd ahve soemthing to complain about.

This is just the Codex doing their usual mantra of bullshit finding the most lame stuff to cry about and making a huge case of it.

If necro magic to enslave nations was the sole reason for someone to buy DA; they now know the game isn't for them. MOVE ON.

 

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

Jesun obviously you weren't looking forward to that "choosing to be a ruthless ruler OR saviour" and "your actions shaping the destiny of the world" part.

To ward away the chance that this post may be lost in the chaos, I think it makes a good point, and relays the source of displeasure or disappointment here.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Things changed. It shouldn't be that big of deal unless like I said that when it does change it is kept a secret. Like if BIO had decided that it would be impossible to import characters and kept it to themselves. Then that would be worth whining about.

I think its valid to show disagreement or dislike in either case as we're talking of game features which were, directly or indirectly responsible for setting the tone for the game, as well as creating a certain idea of how the gameplay would be or what it would contain. Sure, keeping a change like that a secret till the product was released would be pretty bad, and it would be much worse than this. On the other hand I wasn't considering this to be as bad as that scenario, but its pretty bad in its own way.

 

[HardCode]

Yes, I have. As recently as today.

Actually, challenging other people's intelligence who unfairly criticize or are abusive of others or God is very Christian. Christ himself did it more than once; so did the prophets and the apostles. You want references? I'll give you references.

You kind of missed my point. So I'll be blunt:

No one wants to hear your fucking preaching. You are like the annoying Jehova Witness ringing the doorbell on Saturday morning. Take your preaching and stick it up your ass. I am tired of scrolling 50 lines every thread to ignore your boring bullshit. Dealing with stupid bullshit is acceptable if it is game related. If you want to preach, go to church where people care. You're a hypocrite anyway. You just want to hear yourself talk.

 

[obediah]

Eh? You obviously haven't played JE where you don't 'save the world/empire'; but enslave it.

I haven't played JE. But the fact the Bio is more interested in the $$ associated with being on Bill's happy list rather than getting their games out on the platform of choice for RPG gamers says more than any content in that game.

I've played bioware PC games - some are good, but they all suffered from carebear morality and a complete understanding of what dialogue trees are about (i.e. consequences vs style). Until they prove otherwise bioware games allow you to be the good two-shoes that saves the world or the greedy theif that saves the world for 40 gp, or the evil nemsis that saves the world "this one time, but don't expect it again."