Dragon Age....I hate to admit it, but derp roads killed it..

[JarlFrank]

The Redcliffe-Urn questline is pretty fucking good though. The design is one of the best I've seen.

I enjoyed that one quite a lot, yes. Especially in the home of Brother Genitivi. Reverted to an earlier save after reaching that part for the first time cause I missed Leliana (can't skip the lesbian sex, mang), then returned there and decided to explore the house a bit this time, got that guy annoyed because I wanted to open the door, he attacked me, and I discovered that he was an impostor who killed the real one.

That was pretty awesome.
The only problem I had with the questline was the over-abundance of trash mobs in the temple itself. Loved the riddles at the end, though, and the optional dragon fight.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The sound of the point whooshing over your head is fun, but not half as fun as you defending DA against all comers, at all times.

Yep. I'm here every day, posting practically non-stop. I'm tired and need sleep, but MY RAGE KEEPS ME AWAKE!!!

You forgot to tell me I'm trying too hard to gain Kodex Kool Points, by the way.

That's because you are not. Which makes this (and the other) conversation actually entertaining.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Man I've never seen Volourn rage so much. He must really be hurt by people bashing his new favorite Bioware turd.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Then again, I found the story, characters and setting interesting in BG2.

Purely out of curiosity, what did you find interesting and why?

When you don't give a shit about the gameworld, choices and consequences are basically meaningless.

That I agree with.

"that quest design is quite clever!"

It is.

So, is DA a better RPG? It might indeed be. Is it a better game? Hell no. I'd rather play an interesting, good game with bad RPG mechanics than a bland and boring game with better RPG mechanics.

Subjective. You think that BG2 is interesting and good, while DA is bland and boring. My opinion is pretty much the opposite.

 

[Lesifoere]

Not Kingston, but I'll bite.

Take Irenicus' dungeon. Yes, we're probably sick to choking of that dungeon because most of us have replayed BG2 quite a few times, but even then it's got quite a bit of variety. The genie, the dryads, the pocket plane, the doppelganger on the second floor; even the trap-laden bedrooms strike you as being out of place, too pretty and luxurious to belong in the dungeon. You're told, in vague terms, about Irenicus' abuse of the dryads (a tidbit continued when you go up a level and encounter the elven queen's clone. This was back when Bioware understood what "foreshadowing" means). There're also more plot-relevant things the NPCs will comment on, Imoen's horrified muttering, Jaheira's shock at seeing Khalid's corpse and all. You have some of this in the Deep Roads with Shale tagging along, but DA's NPCs don't have much to say about the dungeons you visit beyond a few superficial comments.

Exiting the dungeon: Athkatla. The city alone offers you more things to do, more interesting quests to pursue, than the entirety of DA. Explore, poke shit, you'll find a quest or a bit of intrigue to lead you on. The slave ring under the Copper Coronet, the Planar Sphere, the Unseeing Eye cult, the circus in the Promenade, the playhouse, and so on and so on. Compared to Denerim, which is tiny (since you can only access one district until much later) and most of its side quests run along the line of "go look at the chanter's board/the mages' collective bag/the mercenary chest/the shady guy in the inn" and after that, there's not much left to explore. Cities in RPGs should overwhelm you with lots and lots of things to do/see.

No skill checks in BG2? Hardly any c&c? No problem, because it's actually fun.

 

[FeelTheRads]

But BG2 is like old. Get with the times. DA>BG2 because.

 

[Dnny]

Not Kingston, but I'll bite.

Take Irenicus' dungeon. Yes, we're probably sick to choking of that dungeon because most of us have replayed BG2 quite a few times, but even then it's got quite a bit of variety. The genie, the dryads, the pocket plane, the doppelganger on the second floor; even the trap-laden bedrooms strike you as being out of place, too pretty and luxurious to belong in the dungeon. You're told, in vague terms, about Irenicus' abuse of the dryads (a tidbit continued when you go up a level and encounter the elven queen's clone. This was back when Bioware understood what "foreshadowing" means). There're also more plot-relevant things the NPCs will comment on, Imoen's horrified muttering, Jaheira's shock at seeing Khalid's corpse and all. You have some of this in the Deep Roads with Shale tagging along, but DA's NPCs don't have much to say about the dungeons you visit beyond a few superficial comments.

Exiting the dungeon: Athkatla. The city alone offers you more things to do, more interesting quests to pursue, than the entirety of DA. Explore, poke shit, you'll find a quest or a bit of intrigue to lead you on. The slave ring under the Copper Coronet, the Planar Sphere, the Unseeing Eye cult, the circus in the Promenade, the playhouse, and so on and so on. Compared to Denerim, which is tiny (since you can only access one district until much later) and most of its side quests run along the line of "go look at the chanter's board/the mages' collective bag/the mercenary chest/the shady guy in the inn" and after that, there's not much left to explore. Cities in RPGs should overwhelm you with lots and lots of things to do/see.

No skill checks in BG2? Hardly any c&c? No problem, because it's actually fun.

You forgot one of the most awesome part of BG2, the underdark. It has more interesting sidequests than the whole of DA and an aura of mystery that is totally unmatched by the shitty deep roads part of DA. Lots of interesting factions waging wars against each other and not just "I am teh evil darkspawn" but rather a fight for survival of the strongest, illithids, dark elves, dwarves and other sort of creatures trying to own the territory for their people.

There was no end game consequence but I love how you could triple cross everyone in the underdark, that was brillant.

 

[Lesifoere]

Oh yeah, I was hoping for something like that when I started the Deep Roads. The illithid city alone offers more than the entirety of Deep Roads, and the drow city definitely gives you more bang for the buck than Orzamforge.

 

[FeelTheRads]

LOL ROOFLES. LIES. IN DA THERE"S DARSPAN CUZ GAEM IZ ABOOT DARKPAN WUT U WANT?????? WTF!!!!!

 

[Hamster]

I'm half-way through on my second playthrough, and it's definetely not near as good as BG2 or even BG1. Many have pointed out why; repetition of encounters, the same generic encounter-structure, and only a handful of different enemies.

BG2's linearity, lack of multiple solutions, and painfully simplistic quest design* are a much bigger flaw than DA's combat filler.

No. When combat constitutes ~80% of gameplay it's flaws are more important than advantages in quest design and multiple solutions.
Btw, "painfully simplistic quest design" - that's DA's quest boxes, not BG2.

 

[Dnny]

Yeah, chantry board, ORLY ? DA designers were so lazy they designed most sidequests to be given as a LIST of stuff to do and areas that had ltitle NPC interactions and filled with combat.

 

[Vault Dweller]

No. When combat constitutes ~80% of gameplay...

Talking about BG2?

Btw, "painfully simplistic quest design" - that's DA's quest boxes, not BG2.

The hate is strong in you, my son.

 

[Hamster]

No. When combat constitutes ~80% of gameplay...

Talking about BG2?

Both DA and BG2.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

No. When combat constitutes ~80% of gameplay...

Talking about BG2?

Yeah but this whole thread is devoted to how bad DA's combat is. When it's bad and 80% of the game then other good things aren't that important. With BG2, the combat is good or at least average, meaning it's easier to forgive its other faults.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The hate is strong in you, my son.

Really? Because I also see you throwing around shit about BG2, just like Volourn, only because you think it somehow proves DA is better.

Painfully simplistic quests? I don't remember BG2 having any "kill x monsters, deliver x letters" quests.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yeah but this whole thread is devoted to how bad DA's combat is.

The combat is pretty good, better than BG2 in all aspects but the mage duels. The problem is too much filler combat.

With BG2, the combat is good or at least average....

What makes it good?

The hate is strong in you, my son.

Really? Because I also see you throwing around shit about BG2...

It's the first time I said something negative about BG2 in years, but I can see how you'd feel that I bitch about it relentlessly (a-la Hamster) on several forums

Painfully simplistic quests? I don't remember BG2 having any "kill x monsters, deliver x letters" quests.

How delightfully selective. Let's pretend that DA didn't have the main quests and side quests and only had the job board style quests.

 

[Hamster]

Yeah but this whole thread is devoted to how bad DA's combat is.

The combat is pretty good, better than BG2 in all aspects but the mage duels. The problem is too much filler combat.

Combat system is better, yes, but combat system is nothing without good encouter design, which is pretty bad in DA and makes combat as a whole very tiresome and boring, unlike BG2.

Let's pretend that DA didn't have the main quests

Yes, main quest was great, but it is drowned in tons of boring dungeons and lame side quests.

and side quests

Side quests in DA are bad.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Not Kingston, but I'll bite.

Take Irenicus' dungeon. Yes, we're probably sick to choking of that dungeon because most of us have replayed BG2 quite a few times, but even then it's got quite a bit of variety. The genie, the dryads, the pocket plane, the doppelganger on the second floor....

BG2 had a shitload of monsters. Got it.

You're told, in vague terms, about Irenicus' abuse of the dryads... There're also more plot-relevant things the NPCs will comment on, Imoen's horrified muttering, Jaheira's shock at seeing Khalid's corpse and all.

Must be a chick thing.

Exiting the dungeon: Athkatla. The city alone offers you more things to do, more interesting quests to pursue, than the entirety of DA. Explore, poke shit, you'll find a quest or a bit of intrigue to lead you on. The slave ring under the Copper Coronet, the Planar Sphere, the Unseeing Eye cult, the circus in the Promenade, the playhouse, and so on and so on. Compared to Denerim...

I agree that Athkatla is probably the best RPG city ever and that Denerim doesn't even come close. However, a city, no matter how well done, does not a game make.

Cities in RPGs should overwhelm you with lots and lots of things to do/see.

They should. Unfortunately they are rarely done well.

No skill checks in BG2? Hardly any c&c? No problem, because it's actually fun.

Subjective.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Combat system is better, yes, but combat system is nothing without good encouter design, which is pretty bad in DA and makes combat as a whole very tiresome and boring, unlike BG2.

It's been awhile so I don't really remember what was so awesome about BG design encounter? I really want to know.

 

[FeelTheRads]

How delightfully selective. Let's pretend that DA didn't have the main quests and side quests and only had the job board style quests.

Better let's pretend BG2 had painfully simplistic quests compared to DA because it makes your new found love look better, right?

Plus, BG2>DA by default because BG2 doesn't have "deliver x stuff" quests. Motherfucking period.

 

[hiver]

Could be said that different side quests in BG2 were more imaginatively made, designed in more fun ways, which covered a lot of its other deficiencies.

Main quest of BG2 is a smarter and more interesting story.
DA is in other category in terms of C&C department and possible ways of dealing with some situations in quests.

Main villain or if you want pair of villains was better done and more interesting as characters in BG2.

DA has much better physical combat mechanics - a clear excellent upgrade from old systems in terms of actual combat options and abilities but weaker magic system - where BG2 is diametrically opposite.

Of course, to properly compare one must reconcile the fact of "high fantasy with jokes" style of BG2 against "High fantasy with realistic bend" style of DA.

 

[Vault Dweller]

How delightfully selective. Let's pretend that DA didn't have the main quests and side quests and only had the job board style quests.

Better let's pretend BG2 had painfully simplistic quests compared to DA because it makes your new found love look better, right?

Plus, BG2>DA by default because BG2 doesn't have "deliver x stuff" quests. Motherfucking period.

I'll explain why I like the DA quest design tomorrow. I wrote an article analyzing the design and gave it to Gareth who wanted to add a few words. I'll post it tomorrow.

As for BG2 I'll be more than happy to explain why the quest design was primitive citing numerous examples. Just tell me that it's necessary.

 

[baronjohn]

So it seems more and more people are realizing that Dragon Age is intolerable shit.

Too bad it took you so many hours to get the same conclusion I came to after playing for 10 minutes. Imagine what you could've done in that wasted time when you cry yourself to sleep tonight.

Next time, listen to me. I'm smarter than you.

 

[Volourn]

I"t's a pity too. If the combat system (which is way too MMOey) and encounter design was as good as even BG2 (which definitely isn't the epitome of great combat, but it's decent) DA would've been a fantastic game. Or maybe if combat was less than 90% of the game it could overcome it, especially because then there would be less filler and the encounter design would seem better. As it is though, it's a good game with a very big flaw."

Combat system is avstly sueprior to BG2. And, stop lying with the 90% shit. Making number is so kewl.


Anyone who thinks the BG2 Underark is superior to Orzammar + deep Roads on cracK/ The claim that the illithid 'city' was somehow better Orzammar is retarded since all you do with the illithids is fight. *yawn* Same with beholders.


"There're also more plot-relevant things the NPCs will comment on, Imoen's horrified muttering, Jaheira's shock at seeing Khalid's corpse and all. You have some of this in the Deep Roads with Shale tagging along, but DA's NPCs don't have much to say about the dungeons you visit beyond a few superficial comments."

This is fuckin' bullshit. BG2 npcs barely react to areas and almost never interject themselves into convos. This happens basically all the time in DA. BG2 npcs only talk relaly when it involves their quest. DA npcs will talk on issues that don't even effect their own quest. BG2 npcs are just there, they don't really care what you to do. Then again, BG2 is a agme whose most popualr characetr is a braindead retarded pathetic ranger. LMAO That's all one needs to know about those who prefer BG2 over DA when that is YOUR mascot.


"Lots of interesting factions waging wars against each other and not just "I am teh evil darkspawn" but rather a fight for survival of the strongest, illithids, dark elves, dwarves and other sort of creatures trying to own the territory for their people."

You kiddin' right? Outside of the drow VILLAGE itself, they did no such thing. Your defintion of 'lots' is full of holes.

Sorry, but the Orzammer dwarven politics CRUSHES Underdark with EASE. The UD gives you a dragon while DA gives you an unique monster with actual background, and plot relevance.



Once again, in conclusion, DA > BG2.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Volourn is like Bethesda with Fallou3 vs Oblivion.

When the next awesome game comes from Bioware will you also tell us how DA actually sucks and we should like the new one too?

Making number is so kewl.

NWN OC is 75%. ROOFLES.