Dragon Age: Inquisition Pre-Release Thread

[Xavin]

Well I disappeared off the face of the earth so sorry for that, but now, since I'm a huge DA fanboy and the new trailer is out I've come back to be a contrarian.

Reading the previews for DA3 DA:I I realize time and time again how incredibly generic the setting of this game is. Maybe I'm just too old for high fantasy? Project Eternity will tell.

Haha, I just realized, DA is supposedly set in a 'dark fantasy' world. Maybe I'm too old for that too.

I take it you don't read high fantasy novels. Even my beloved Morrowind/Arcanum/Torment can't really compare to the best fantasy writers, which is kind of sad.

If I wrote off games for being set in tired old Tolkien-esque fantasy worlds then 90% of the entire genre would be lost.

Not defending DA, just sayin'.

Except there are very few WRPGs that are actually Tolkien-esque. A Wrinkle in Time is more Tolkien-esque than most WPRGs that have elves and dwarves in them.

The trailer... Oh god, don't get me started on that thing...
I mean, what did it show? Aside from the usual unimportant epic speech? Yeah, it showed Morrigan got a new haircut. Get over it.
When they start showing actual gameplay footage, only then can we determine the epic levels of derp that will become DA3

I thoroughly enjoyed Origins, but one of its flaws was that the main quest structure was, well, fairly standard for video games. You recruit armies because you have ancient binding treaties, said armies sit around doing nothing for a few months, and then you pool all of your resources for an all-or-nothing attack on the big bad. The trailer seems to indicate that you might actually be able to control what your armies actually do; and that, whereas DA:O factions had internal struggles you had to personally solve, DA:I might have factions with external struggles that actually prevent you from allying with other factions.

But, as everyone in this thread knows, this is BioWare, lol. Dragon Age is where good ideas go to be poorly executed. If, however, BioWare were to actually do this, combined with the castle management that's supposed to be there, AND make important decisions from the previous two games (well 2 only has one and I didn't even play that far) have an impact on the game, DA:I might actually be salvageable. Since DA2 was "so bad it's good" territory for me, I'm in a win-win scenario.

 

[DalekFlay]

Except there are very few WRPGs that are actually Tolkien-esque. A Wrinkle in Time is more Tolkien-esque than most WPRGs that have elves and dwarves in them.

The really, really depends on your level of interest and how much you delve into the differences. My point was elves, orcs, medieval look, standard fantasy bullshit.

 

[Mangoose]

Except there are very few WRPGs that are actually Tolkien-esque. A Wrinkle in Time is more Tolkien-esque than most WPRGs that have elves and dwarves in them.

The really, really depends on your level of interest and how much you delve into the differences. My point was elves, orcs, medieval look, standard fantasy bullshit.

Incidentally it is quite annoying how when standard fantasy tries to imitate Tolkien, they only take the most superficial elements (the races and the medieval look, as you say). Whereas Tolkien's real themes of mortality, corruption, nobility/humility, industrialization, potential in every average/small person, etc. are completely ignored.

 

[Roguey]

Potential in every person of royalty or landed gentry you mean. Tolkien and his themes can burn in hell.

 

[Mangoose]

Potential in every person of royalty or landed gentry you mean. Tolkien and his themes can burn in hell.

No, the potential in the smallest and the most unexpected. As Frodo and Sam were the only ones able to get the ring to the mountain. And it was unexpectedly Gollum - spared multiple times despite his wickedness - that managed to get the ring actually in the fire. Everything Aragorn and co. did, while noble and great, was all for naught if the Ring wasn't destroyed. Actually, Aragorn was planning to suicide himself and his army at the entrance to Mordor, besides the minuscule hope that the Hobbits finished their quest. LOTR actually was where Tolkien showed that nobility counted for nothing and was withering away, and that the Fourth Age was the rise of the average person.

The reason that the "past" in Middle Earth emphasized so much what is "noble" and not is because Tolkien intended to write a mythological history of England, so of course he needed to incorporate existing past themes such as nobility and bloodlines. Even then, he showed that clinging to nobility and pride is the shortcut to corruption.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Reading the previews for DA3 DA:I I realize time and time again how incredibly generic the setting of this game is. Maybe I'm just too old for high fantasy? Project Eternity will tell.

Haha, I just realized, DA is supposedly set in a 'dark fantasy' world. Maybe I'm too old for that too.

I take it you don't read high fantasy novels. Even my beloved Morrowind/Arcanum/Torment can't really compare to the best fantasy writers, which is kind of sad.

True sad story: When I had gotten back into reading fantasy novels a few years ago, I had kind avoided reading A Song of Ice and Fire for a while because I read that DA:O was "inspired" by it. So, like an idiot, I took that at face value and assumed that ASoI&F was just more lame 90s anti-hero style grimdark. I am still furious at Bioware for that. But no less furious at myself.

[ETA to show this was an edit b/c I feel bad I edit ninja'd]

Potential in every person of royalty or landed gentry you mean. Tolkien and his themes can burn in hell.

No, the potential in the smallest and the most unexpected. As Frodo and Sam were the only ones able to get the ring to the mountain.

Although Frodo was the landed gentry. The Shire was basically an idealized rural England. The Sackville-Bagginses, bringers of Saruman style industrialization, were essentially the bourgeois nouveau riche upstarts taking his property.

 

[Roguey]

Potential in every person of royalty or landed gentry you mean. Tolkien and his themes can burn in hell.

No, the potential in the smallest and the most unexpected. As Frodo and Sam were the only ones able to get the ring to the mountain. And it was unexpectedly Gollum - spared multiple times despite his wickedness - that managed to get the ring actually in the fire. Everything Aragorn and co. did, while noble and great, was all for naught if the Ring wasn't destroyed. Actually, Aragorn was planning to suicide himself and his army at the entrance to Mordor, besides the minuscule hope that the Hobbits finished their quest. LOTR actually was where Tolkien showed that nobility counted for nothing and was withering away, and that the Fourth Age was the rise of the average person.

The reason that the "past" in Middle Earth emphasized so much what is "noble" and not is because Tolkien intended to write a mythological history of England, so of course he needed to incorporate existing past themes such as nobility and bloodlines.

Frodo was landed gentry. Sam became so.

 

[Mangoose]

Potential in every person of royalty or landed gentry you mean. Tolkien and his themes can burn in hell.

No, the potential in the smallest and the most unexpected. As Frodo and Sam were the only ones able to get the ring to the mountain. And it was unexpectedly Gollum - spared multiple times despite his wickedness - that managed to get the ring actually in the fire. Everything Aragorn and co. did, while noble and great, was all for naught if the Ring wasn't destroyed. Actually, Aragorn was planning to suicide himself and his army at the entrance to Mordor, besides the minuscule hope that the Hobbits finished their quest. LOTR actually was where Tolkien showed that nobility counted for nothing and was withering away, and that the Fourth Age was the rise of the average person.

The reason that the "past" in Middle Earth emphasized so much what is "noble" and not is because Tolkien intended to write a mythological history of England, so of course he needed to incorporate existing past themes such as nobility and bloodlines.

Frodo was landed gentry. Sam became so.

Nice try

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Potential in every person of royalty or landed gentry you mean. Tolkien and his themes can burn in hell.

No, the potential in the smallest and the most unexpected. As Frodo and Sam were the only ones able to get the ring to the mountain. And it was unexpectedly Gollum - spared multiple times despite his wickedness - that managed to get the ring actually in the fire. Everything Aragorn and co. did, while noble and great, was all for naught if the Ring wasn't destroyed. Actually, Aragorn was planning to suicide himself and his army at the entrance to Mordor, besides the minuscule hope that the Hobbits finished their quest. LOTR actually was where Tolkien showed that nobility counted for nothing and was withering away, and that the Fourth Age was the rise of the average person.

The reason that the "past" in Middle Earth emphasized so much what is "noble" and not is because Tolkien intended to write a mythological history of England, so of course he needed to incorporate existing past themes such as nobility and bloodlines.

Frodo was landed gentry. Sam became so.

Nice try

Well he had the nicest house in the Shire, no job and a full-time servant.

 

[Tom Selleck]

Yeah, fuck Tolkien and his halfling privilege.

 

[Mangoose]

Potential in every person of royalty or landed gentry you mean. Tolkien and his themes can burn in hell.

No, the potential in the smallest and the most unexpected. As Frodo and Sam were the only ones able to get the ring to the mountain. And it was unexpectedly Gollum - spared multiple times despite his wickedness - that managed to get the ring actually in the fire. Everything Aragorn and co. did, while noble and great, was all for naught if the Ring wasn't destroyed. Actually, Aragorn was planning to suicide himself and his army at the entrance to Mordor, besides the minuscule hope that the Hobbits finished their quest. LOTR actually was where Tolkien showed that nobility counted for nothing and was withering away, and that the Fourth Age was the rise of the average person.

The reason that the "past" in Middle Earth emphasized so much what is "noble" and not is because Tolkien intended to write a mythological history of England, so of course he needed to incorporate existing past themes such as nobility and bloodlines.

Frodo was landed gentry. Sam became so.

Nice try

Well he had the nicest house in the Shire, no job and a full-time servant.

Guess who would've kept the Ring for himself if not for Gollum biting his finger off.

Also, guess which of the Hobbits was most pure and loyal.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Well he had the nicest house in the Shire, no job and a full-time servant.

Guess who would've kept the Ring for himself if not for Gollum biting his finger off.

Also, guess which of the Hobbits was most pure and loyal.

Fair point. However, the dynamic of Sam's loyalty to Frodo was that of a servant's loyalty to his better. So he was embodying the ideal of the other half of the noble-servant pair. Frodo was the idealized country gentleman and Sam was the loyal servant, who loved nothing better than to devote his life to his social superior. The valorization of this devotion is a fundamentally aristocratic notion.

And I don't know if I would say that Sam was necessarily purer. Frodo's attempt to claim the ring at Mount Doom was less to show that Sam was superior, but that even the best could fall to temptation. I think that ultimate rejection of the idea of the great man using power without being corrupted is probably the best part of Tolkien. (Incidentally, I love Tolkien, but I do think his work has elements which I disagree strongly with)

 

[Zeriel]

The class abilities I was talking about were all located in the soldier trees. i.e, the shootery-gunny-this-should-be-an-FPS class. You're one to talk about faulty memory. Bottom line, ME1 was way more about class mechanics than cover-shooting mechanics.

Nope. You see, I'm not relying on my memory. I'm spending the time to look at videos and articles.

Talents Edit


Class: Soldier
Pistols
Shotguns Unlocked at Pistols 4
Assault Rifles
Sniper Rifles Unlocked at Assault Rifles 7
Combat Armor
First Aid Unlocked at Combat Armor 6
Assault Training
Fitness Unlocked at Assault Training 5

And for the Assault Rifle

Talent RanksEdit

Level 1: Overkill
Level 2: Increases damage by 5%. Increases accuracy by 10%.
Level 3: Increases damage by 8%. Increases accuracy by 14%.
Level 4: Increases damage by 10%. Increases accuracy by 17%.
Level 5: Increases damage by 12%. Increases accuracy by 20%. Unlocks Shotguns (Krogan Battlemaster).
Level 6: Increases damage by 14%. Increases accuracy by 22%. Unlocks Sniper Rifles (Turian Agent).
Level 7: Increases damage by 16%. Increases accuracy by 24%. Unlocks Sniper Rifles (Soldier).
Level 8: Advanced Overkill
Level 9: Increases damage by 18%. Increases accuracy by 26%.
Level 10: Increases damage by 19%. Increases accuracy by 28%.
Level 11: Increases damage by 20%. Increases accuracy by 30%.
Level 12: Master Overkill

And all Overkill does is give you a buff to your accuracy and overheating.

Now, the Combat Armor tree does give you one active ability to use, Shield Boost, but guess how long the cooldown on that is? 45 seconds.

Because googling things instead of actually having first hand experience has never led anyone astray. Nope nope nope.

Master Immunity Edit

Increases damage protection by 80%.

• Accuracy Cost: 30%
• Duration: 20s
• Recharge Time: 30s

Master Adrenaline Burst Edit

Resets the cooldown times on all your talents so they can be used immediately.
Recharge time: 45 sec.
Accuracy Cost: 30%


Basically, soldier got the ability to become immune to damage, the ability to recharge shields at will, passive HP regeneration all the time, and the ability to reset the cooldowns on all those abilities that do the above mentioned things. There was zero requirement to use cover in the way it is used in the later games. You could even get out on foot and personally take down the planet enemies (like multiple Armatures, dozens of Geth) that were supposed to be beaten in the Mako vehicle if you knew how to use your abilities properly. Hence why I said ME1 strikes me as way more of an RPG than a shooter when compared to the later games.

You had a point when you mentioned they really axed cooldowns of abilities in the later iterations of the series, but it's more accurate to just say they nerfed the holy hell out of any ability (or removed it outright) that had a significant impact on gameplay. By making abilities have moderate but never incredible impact, they promoted the importance of the basic cover mechanics to center stage.

 

[Rivmusique]

Mangoose

Tokien is a filthy privileged scumbag, haven't you heard?

 

[MicoSelva]

Reading the previews for DA3 DA:I I realize time and time again how incredibly generic the setting of this game is. Maybe I'm just too old for high fantasy? Project Eternity will tell.

Haha, I just realized, DA is supposedly set in a 'dark fantasy' world. Maybe I'm too old for that too.

I take it you don't read high fantasy novels. Even my beloved Morrowind/Arcanum/Torment can't really compare to the best fantasy writers, which is kind of sad.

You take it wrong. I read a lot of fantasy novels, high or otherwise. Few games compare to the work of best authors (although Torment does), but in the case of Dragon Age (series), so far it does not compare even to the mediocre ones.

 

[Zeriel]

I wouldn't say the best RPGs even try to do the same thing, with maybe the exception of Torment. Their strengths lie in other areas--interactivity is the one thing games do that film and print suck at, and the game industry in general would be a lot better if developers focused on that distinction rather than trying to ape other formats.

 

[Space Satan]

THE FUCK IS THIS?!?!?!??!? Video of 48 minutes of gaiderfaggotry...
"Are we requiring the female protagonist to work harder and sell more in order to prove herself?" asks Dragon Age lead writer David Gaider, in this GDC 2013 video about sexism and sexuality in games

 

[DarthBehemoth]

I have nothing against sexism in games. In fact, I do agree that we can't ignore sexism, as it is something all of us (hopefully at one point) deal with. But Bioware's approach is so IN YO DAMN FACHES! it makes me kinda sick
I much prefer Obsidians approach to sexism (eg very subtle). I mean Veronica was lesbian, but it Obsidian doesn't let her sexual orientation influence her personality and dialog. I take Veronica or Arcade over Anders or Lelianna any day.

EDIT: Also Gaider basically admits what everyone on the dex' already knows. The fact that (hardcore) Bioware fans are just dumb perverts and are only playing their games for the sex. Gaider's 'why not?' attitude really shows why Bioware is going full shit.

 

[Rahdulan]

I really wish someone would just slap these people and tell them to stop pushing contemporary agendas onto fictional video game settings. Should the female protagonist work harder to prove herself? If it's to go against the grain of the setting where women don't have equal status, then yes she should. Fuck, I'm bitching ahead of time because I really really don't have the willpower to sit through that video of Gaider being a LGBT mouthpiece. Picture posted for the sake of sanity.

 

[Commissar Draco]

DA was from the start Fiction; now it is Political fiction as well.... What Next? Guns and Suvs for greater Immurshion of COD players in Fantasy setting?


Somebody Nuke Edmonton.

 

[DarthBehemoth]

I actually prefer Avellone's approach when it comes to narrative. The worst feeling when you're playing a game is the feeling you're actually playing a 'game' and the game prevents you from doing what you want to do. Rather than making the player care about something, you should try to allow him to make the connection himself.

 

[tuluse]

All 3 answers sound good to me honestly. I wish Levine would actually use environmental story telling these days like he did with Thief.

 

[Lancehead]

All 3 answers sound good to me honestly.

"The player never gets to do what they want, necessarily. They get to do what we let them." sounds pretty bad. And its application is quite evident in BioWare games. Many choices given, then the designer makes the decision on what will happen disregarding many choices. They really shouldn't be writing RPGs with that design mentality.

 

[tuluse]

Ignore context and distill it down, and it's just the truth. The designer makes the rules of the game and you follow them. Ideally the designer is good and allows a lot of freedom, but it's still limited by what the designer made.

 

[Xavin]

Reading the previews for DA3 DA:I I realize time and time again how incredibly generic the setting of this game is. Maybe I'm just too old for high fantasy? Project Eternity will tell.

Haha, I just realized, DA is supposedly set in a 'dark fantasy' world. Maybe I'm too old for that too.

I take it you don't read high fantasy novels. Even my beloved Morrowind/Arcanum/Torment can't really compare to the best fantasy writers, which is kind of sad.

You take it wrong. I read a lot of fantasy novels, high or otherwise. Few games compare to the work of best authors (although Torment does), but in the case of Dragon Age (series), so far it does not compare even to the mediocre ones.

My bad. It's usually the type of thing said by "I listen to everything but country and rap" people, i.e. being exposed to the worst of the genre (which is pretty fucking bad) and then using it to dismiss an entire genre. I haven't gotten bored with the fantasy aimed at "adults" (Tad Williams, Mieville, etc.), and I still actually enjoy Harry Potter. So make of that what you will. I don't really understand the concept of being too old for an entire genre based on, um, Dragon Age a video game in general.

I wouldn't say the best RPGs even try to do the same thing, with maybe the exception of Torment. Their strengths lie in other areas--interactivity is the one thing games do that film and print suck at, and the game industry in general would be a lot better if developers focused on that distinction rather than trying to ape other formats.

Not necessarily ape other formats, but prove themselves worthy of being compared to other formats while taking full advantage of their own, like Watchmen or Maus. I don't think the equivalent for video games exists yet.

It is worth noting that my main attractions to this genre are a) doing whatever the fuck you want/LARPING; a stark contrast to the Japanese counterpart, and b) the interactive storytelling aspect. I'd personally rather play Civilization/Mario/RollerCoaster Tycoon/Dwarf Fortress than a pure dungeon crawler.

Potential in every person of royalty or landed gentry you mean. Tolkien and his themes can burn in hell.

but remember that it is both possible (and even necessary) to simultaneously enjoy media while also being critical of it’s more problematic or pernicious aspects.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/194571/Video_Sexism_and_sexuality_in_games.php