Incline Dune, best boardgame ever, reprinted by GF9

[Silva]

Yesterday I had an amazing win where I was playing Bene Gesserit and predicted a Harkonnen turn 3 win, allied with said harkonnen player, used his alliance ability to steamroll the rest and totally stabbed him in the back to win the game. That was an amazing conclusion I tell you what..

How long it took from setup to finish? I'll play it next weekend for the first time (assuming no setbacks of course) with a full 6 players roster, and I confess beign worried about it's lenght.

*Ankh's description*

Looks pretty interesting. I'll read more about it on BGG. Thanks!

 

[JamesDixon]

I believe someone made a workshop mod of the game for Tabletop Simulator.

 

[mastroego]

I've seen several versions.
Not that I get to play it

 

[Akratus II]

Yesterday I had an amazing win where I was playing Bene Gesserit and predicted a Harkonnen turn 3 win, allied with said harkonnen player, used his alliance ability to steamroll the rest and totally stabbed him in the back to win the game. That was an amazing conclusion I tell you what..

How long it took from setup to finish? I'll play it next weekend for the first time (assuming no setbacks of course) with a full 6 players roster, and I confess beign worried about it's lenght.

Lately our games last from 15 min to 2 hours until someone at the end of a turn says, 'oh by the way, I have three strongholds (And/or 3 tech tokens).' But today we just had another go and it lasted almost 3 hours. And we got to turn 7.

 

[Silva]

Finally played this.

We were 5 first timers and left the Spacing Guild out. Only I knew the rules. It was a blast, everybody was laughing histerically at the end when the Bene Gesserit player won by prediction on turn 5. In retrospect we probably got lucky in getting what seems the coolest ending possible for a bunch of Dune aficionados, specially so as the BG player really schemed and manipulated people on her way to victory.

We played the "Optional" mode (Advanced sans spice combat) as it seemed the better balance of theme-speed. We also used a couple variants: Alternating spice blows/ single on odds, double on even rounds (felt a good balance for Optional mode, as double would hurt Fremen spice-efficiency, while single spice blow could hurt map presence and nexus frequency); and 1-pass only auction (draws favoring storm order) which again, felt a good theme-speed, as default auction can slow the game too much, and that other, even faster variant where everybody just extend hands and show at same time miss the Atreides bid/tell that gives the phase it's nuance and mind-game IMO). Oh, we also played a 7 rounds max game.

It took ~4h, in great part due to the slow start where we learned the rules. Considering we're all first timers, it felt smooth, with no phase feeling boring or such.

What would think about spice combat? Personally I'm not a fan and would prefer keeping Optional mode, but in name of fairness next time I'll make sure to explain my friends the spice combat rules, discuss it's pros and cons, and go with whatever they decide. Who knows, maybe I change my mind about it.

 

[Riel]

This is a great game, but it is way too hardcore and unforgiving for most players to play well, and as result most of my games have finished in a pitiful battle of about 3 troops vs 1 with one side having no leaders while the axlotl tanks were filled to the brim...

Personally I think REX Last Days of an Empire, a Dune's remake that was edited before Dune license could be reacquired for this game to be re-edited is a far more accessible game, also shorter game length which honestly is big bonus, while basically providing the same experience it is a better game unless you can reliably get 6 people who are willing to sit around a table potentially for close to 5 hours for several games so they become experienced and can truly tap into Dune's unparalleled refined and subtle mechanics. REX is basically the same game but it is a lot more forgiving of mistakes.

 

[DavidBVal]

This is a great game, but it is way too hardcore and unforgiving for most players to play well, and as result most of my games have finished in a pitiful battle of about 3 troops vs 1 with one side having no leaders while the axlotl tanks were filled to the brim...

Personally I think REX Last Days of an Empire, a Dune's remake that was edited before Dune license could be reacquired for this game to be re-edited is a far more accessible game, also shorter game length which honestly is big bonus, while basically providing the same experience it is a better game unless you can reliably get 6 people who are willing to sit around a table potentially for close to 5 hours for several games so they become experienced and can truly tap into Dune's unparalleled refined and subtle mechanics. REX is basically the same game but it is a lot more forgiving of mistakes.

Sad but true. Game length is truly a barrier for many. This is a common problem for many great tabletop games.

 

[Harthwain]

What would think about spice combat?

I'd rather ask about spice collection. I recently read a theory in which you have to be in the same territory AND sector to collect the spice. Frankly, this makes a lot of sense and makes placement of units much more important.

 

[Silva]

What would think about spice combat?

I'd rather ask about spice collection. I recently read a theory in which you have to be in the same territory AND sector to collect the spice. Frankly, this makes a lot of sense and makes placement of units much more important.

This is my understanding and how we played.

 

[Silva]

My crew is warming up for our second game and we want to add the expansion in (Ixians and Tleilaxu). Here is what I'm considering...

1. Allow both factions in the game, as long as the balance between the "map presence" and "economic" factions in the roster is maintained.

Map presence: Atr, Frem, Hark, Ix
Economic: Emp, Guild, BG, Teiilax

So, any combination keeping those two groups on equal footing is good.

2. Leave out the new treachery cards. I see lots of OP stuff here with potential to unbalance the game or inject too much random. I see these more as spice (pun intended) for veteran groups who got tired from the default deck, which is not our case.

Thoughts? Anybody tried the Ix-Tleilax expansion?

Edit: Btw, I see there are other expansions but on a cursory look they don't feel necessary except maybe the newest one for the variant rules (nexus cards seem cool).

 

[v1rus]

Thoughts? Anybody tried the Ix-Tleilax expansion?

Never played Ix/Tleil, nor CHOAM/Richese. Just found out they also popped Ecaz and Moritani. I did play a decent amount of GF9 Dune tho, and in general, lots of heavy board games inspired by it.

My two cents? Hold on till you pop them. Play couple more games vanilla. Many of the hyper-asymmetrical games rely on a "ecosystem" of players knowing what faction can accomplish what. I know its tempting to throw in all the cool shit at once (I was like that too), but trust me, the base game itself offers so much depth that you dont need expansions yet. The whole point is to negotiate and threaten, for everyone to know all the cards and what exactly is possible and at stake.

Dune is an excellent game, but an old, inelegant design (and it shows - compare it to some modern complex games, and you will see how harder its to teach) and while there have been modern games that take the whole "ecosystem of negotiation" aspect to the next level (notably, Root), the Dune base game deserves more than a couple of runs (with the exact same 6 player grpup) to fully grasp all the delicacies. Once again - just play base game Dune for like 4-5 more games (with expert rules if you havent already, obv) let everyone experience the "soft-power" factions (Atreides, Harkonnen and BG) and let everyone fully grasp what each faction brings to the table. Pure power of Emperor/Guild, power of Atreides foresight (A good Atreides knows everything everyone has, thus its almost impossible to beat them at the rock-paper-scissor game), how annoying a well used Treachery it is, the logistical benefits of Freeman and how fucking creepy the BG player is.

Just my two cents. Gl, and enjoy, its an excellent game, that becomes even more impressive once you realise just how old the game is.

 

[Old One]

Thoughts? Anybody tried the Ix-Tleilax expansion?

Play couple more games vanilla. Many of the hyper-asymmetrical games rely on a "ecosystem" of players knowing what faction can accomplish what.

I agree. This game doesn't really start to shine until all the players know what all the different abilities of all the different factions can do. That takes time to learn.

 

[Riel]

The Ixians and Tleilaxu expansion adds two things:

• The two factions
• New Treachery cards
• 3 "technologies"

I like the treachery cards, I hate the factions and the techs. The point is that Ixians have an extra mobile fortress, and having the three "techs" also counts as an extra fortress and the result is instead of fighting over 5 fortresses you are fighting over 7 and this makes it a lot easier to get 3/4 fortresses so winning is a lot easier. It will make a far shorter game for sure... but in my opinion a very underwhelming one.
The treachery cards themselves I like so you can add them and they will spice up combat, but of course if you just ignore them nothing wrong will come out of that.

To be honest Dune doesn't need expansions.

 

[Silva]

The Ixians and Tleilaxu expansion adds two things:

• The two factions
• New Treachery cards
• 3 "technologies"

I like the treachery cards, I hate the factions and the techs. The point is that Ixians have an extra mobile fortress, and having the three "techs" also counts as an extra fortress and the result is instead of fighting over 5 fortresses you are fighting over 7 and this makes it a lot easier to get 3/4 fortresses so winning is a lot easier. It will make a far shorter game for sure... but in my opinion a very underwhelming one.
The treachery cards themselves I like so you can add them and they will spice up combat, but of course if you just ignore them nothing wrong will come out of that.

To be honest Dune doesn't need expansions.

With all due respect, that's bullshit.

All tournament stats show the Guild at the top of win percentage due to its stalling capabilities, so "opening the game" up by adding extra stronghold(s) may actually do good for the game. So much so the "Shield Wall stronghold" variant (a new stronghold shows up after 4th worm) became default on the WBC tournaments.

That said, it seems to me only 1 extra stronghold is healthy for the game, anything beyond that unbalancing things too much over to the other side, and resulting in what you say above.

So I'd probably suggest my group to include only 1 extra stronghold in the game, no matter if Ixians', tech tokens or shield wall. Pick one and let's go.

I'm still digesting the new factions, but on a glimpse I love the Ixians, undecided about the Tleilaxu. The crew already decided to include them in next match so we'll see.

 

[ind33d]

is the box just full of sand?

 

[Silva]

is the box just full of sand?

More like someone played a prank on you. Did it come with a "big worm" inside too?

 

[vota DC]

Played once with Guild, never seen Bene Gesserit. They look very complicated with advanced rules, but no problems since I played with basic and never found the 6th player.
Also with the advanced rules they get double Spice and troop upkeep....but fremen don't require upkeep, don't pay to field troops and don't pay to revive troops. They don't have much to spend outside auction.


I also did some rules based on the book Dune 12 since there Is already the dune 2000 mod of It but I need to balance test a little.
-Atreides since they use spice for medicine they have unlimited number of revival and cheap too. Their heroes are weak but one of them has 0 strenght but whenever he win a battle he capture the enemy hero.
-Harkonnen use AIM from Jagged Alliance in the book....they have the usual treachery advantage and they get a bonus of the bounty for heroes killed. They have only one traitor but they also can use tanks that are a double hedge weapon: if their hero dies the tanks are used against them in Battle. Also they have some sort of troll hero: he Is weak but he Is the baron's favorite so if you kill him the Harkonnen will fight better.
-Ordos have two traitors and they can pay to change them. They can steal spice from bordering region after the spice Is being collected. Also they get a bounty if they win with poison because deviator. Zero free revival make them weak if they get killed.
-Emperor Is poor. Gets charity even when other gets it. Has sardaukar and can use them to reinforce a fort as a free action.
-Tremend pay half or landing like Guild in basic game and can land only in caves. They pay to emperor. They know the number of enemies and they have special troops that live underground so they aren't killed by sandstorm. They have only 3 treachery cards.
-Aliverso get money from landing but pay full price to land own troops. Can teleport troops and can collect 5 spices. Have bad heroes and also zero free revival.

 

[NwNgger]

I played a couple games with a group of friends with one of the unofficial DIY reprints. Not the newer version. So can't speak for that one. But I really liked the game when I played it. It's not often you get a licenced board game that so accurately represents the theme and lore of it's subject matter through it's mechanics. Theme and mechanics working hand in hand to create that experience that you imagined from reading the Dune books. And it's something I champion in terms of games design. I want the mechanics to make me feel like I'm in that world. Dune delivers that. So well done to the people who made it.