KickStarter Dungeon Kingdom: Sign of the Moon, a realtime dungeon crawler - now available on Early Access

[AMG]

That's an awful lot of work you've done just to make a game that looks exactly like Legend of Grimrock.

So you adamantly defend Josh Sawyer against ANY criticism, no matter what, no matter how, and when a new developer shows up and in a very composed and polite way shows the fruit of his work and a potentially incline game, THIS is how you welcome him.
Very equilibrate of you.
I want to remind you that Sawyer is making a game that "looks exactly" like BG2 (with no hope of playing like it, incidentally)

kanda:
Thanks for your post, your game looks very cool, I'll be sure to keep an eye on it as a probable buyer

A bit obsessed, aren't we?

There's a difference between "cloning" a game from a dead genre and cloning one that was released just two years ago, with a sequel soon to be released.

Yeah what was Obsidian thinking, Dragon Age 3 is right around the corner .

 

[kanda]

What's the setting and story of the game? Maybe knowing that will help coming up with a better name than Dungeon Kingdom.

Difficult to not spoil so i'll give you only a few elements.

We play the role of a character who is sent by his father to enter a contest for a local guild in order to have a future in this country called Pohe Fakesys at the dawn of the 4th age.

This character has a special sign: a sign of a crescent moon on uen part of his body. He does not know its origin, but his father had always forbidden to show it publicly.

This sign is the recipient of one of six jewels, fragments of the spirit of Kisanth.

Adwij, the goddess beat Kisanth in the past (the second age, in the form of a gold dragon), but she did not kill him, she shared her spirit into six pieces and froze his body. His body is kept safe on the frozen lake, he lost his eye and he is left with six hollow cavities awaiting revival.

The fragments are kept safe but some were lost. To ensure that the fragments are not brought to Kisanth by his servants, Adwij made sure that everyone who wants to capture a fragment die immediately, except for holders elected to watch over and keep these fragments Kisanth distant ...

You begin the game in the great temple of Adwij, sent there immediately by members of the guild of magic when they noticed the sign of the moon ...

In this context, you should know that the power of magic fades, it is believed that magic emitted by the resulting gap in the fight between Adwij and Kisanth is shrinking, and the grand master of the temple OF Adwij wants to ban magic .
I resumed the context in a few words, but there is much more actually...And there of course an history of the 3 previous age.

 

[octavius]

You already have a better name in your description: Sign of the Moon.
If you want a Chaos Strikes Back vibe maybe something like "Heart of Chaos". It sounds good, but I'm not sure it fits with the story.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

But "Legend of Genericrock" sounds like a good name for the game.

Spoiler

 

[kanda]

Hey man, great job on the game, looks promising.
I don't mind strong influences from other games, as long as your product is solid.
Any thoughts on release date?

Thanks. I expect to release it in december.

 

[Jaesun]

kanda So does this have combat where we can actually melee creatures? (Instead of grimrock where you can't, and have to do swing dancing combat). Such as finding a corner which protects your back and both sides, and can then fight in melee combat. I completely understand SOME creatures you should never ever melee with, and have to do swing dance combat.

 

[flabbyjack]

Jaesun please change thread name to 'Dungeon Kingdom' as the name of the game has changed

Infinitron made some good points, just wasn't very polite in saying them

kanda Very promising looking, but for the life of me all I could see was Legends of G******k and Might and Magic X. Since both were successful games, that is probably a good thing.

I get the impression that you are a smaller sized developer. It does seem like a lot of effort to get something that may be achievable using existing mod tools. You may want to look into importing your assets into Legends of Grimrock (http://www.grimrock.net/modding/) or contacting the team about getting any early release of the Legends of Grimrock 2 toolset. You may work out a mutually beneficial arrangement, some mods are released as separate games entirely, some have to be sold as DLC.

You could do for LoG2 what Dragonfall did for Shadowrun

 

[Jaesun]

But I liked octavius' suggestion of Sign of the Moon.

But that doesn't have DUNGEON in the name.......................

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

But I liked octavius' suggestion of Sign of the Moon.

But that doesn't have DUNGEON in the name.......................

Kingdom of Dungeons
Dungeon's Dungeon
Dungeon of Kingdoms
Dungeon of Moon
Moon of Dungeons
Sign of the Dungeon
Dungeon of the Moon
Sign of the Moon, yet another dungeon crawler

More suggestions.

 

[Jaesun]

How about Dungeon Kingdom: Sign of the Moon.

I like that.

 

[kanda]

Jaesun please change thread name to 'Dungeon Kingdom' as the name of the game has changed
Infinitron made some good points, just wasn't very polite in saying them
kanda Very promising looking, but for the life of me all I could see was Legends of G******k and Might and Magic X. Since both were successful games, that is probably a good thing.

I get the impression that you are a smaller sized developer. It does seem like a lot of effort to get something that may be achievable using existing mod tools. You may want to look into importing your assets into Legends of Grimrock (http://www.grimrock.net/modding/) or contacting the team about getting any early release of the Legends of Grimrock 2 toolset. You may work out a mutually beneficial arrangement, some mods are released as separate games entirely, some have to be sold as DLC.You could do for LoG2 what Dragonfall did for Shadowrun

Hi flabbyjack,
some1 already advised it here but my reply is simple: why should i make a mod for Grimrock ? Most of features are already implemented, it's running nicely and ALL platformes, Android, iOS, Pc, Mac OsX, Linux...! It has real physics and many features i can't create using Grimrock tool set. Their engine is wonderfull and their tool great, but i am a coder, and have been coding tools for crawlers from since my teenage time, and it was much much earlier than grimrock exist, i don't need their tool even my opinion is that they did an awesome work on it. The problem being a small team is mainly for the artworks, but it's allright, i have a good artist, wich is working hard on DK at the moment. No worries, you may be surprised soon. Keep in mind the current screenshots are taken from dev build, used only for features integration, these bunch or corridors were probably assembled in less than 15 minutes just for testing purpose. That probably my mistake, to show people something too early, even you mention the context, people only retain what they see. It's ok used to it now

In other hand, i wanted to show something, as i am listening at the community to improve things that could be

It's kind of you to advise me on this and appreciate it. However, what i really seek here, is your tastes about the gameplay, so feel free to mention what you like or would hate.

 

[kanda]

How about Dungeon Kingdom: Sign of the Moon.
I like that.

Thanks Jaeson. That's what i previously meant when i said that for the game's release i'll probably put more focus to the chapter's title. And i agree that Dungeon Kingdom: Sign of the Moon sounds well to my ears

I am very interested if you can you develop about how you see the fighting. Tell me exactly how you would see it in your best wishes. What you don't want and what you would really dislike.
thanks in advance.

 

[Desktop Commander]

A thing to keep in mind is that a majority of the Codex are, paradoxically, probably not the best candidates to give advice on an RT Blobber, since they don't like the genre (See all those "Make it TB instead of RT" posts). So just like asking a Bioware fan what they want out of a game with actual gameplay ("Implement a button to skip combat!!one1!"), you might not always get answers that are wise to put into practice right away.

That said, people don't play RT Blobbers for the Combat but for the dungeon design. Combat should be there to serve as a resource attrition mechanic and a Skinnerbox for people who love numbers going up. If combat in an RT Blobber is forgettable, you're doing it right. Trying to be clever and making it challenging will only lead to frustration on the player's side, since the genre limitations don't allow for much tactical flexibility and you'll ultimately only force them to perform the combat mambo in different patterns, but nothing more.

 

[Reapa]

About turn based, i got a few times this request. But some also said they prefer the real time nature of the game. My answer is simple, the DNA of Dungeons Kingdom is closer to Dungeon Master (and it's real time nature) than a Might and Magic game. I think it would be a different game if it was turn based. I like the turn based too, but this is not what i wish for Dungeons Kingdom. Perhaps for another rpg game in the future, but not this one

you stupid or what? who likes real time crawlers and why? of course it would be a different game if it was turn based, it would be a good game. just look at how much hype D:OS created just because it was turn based, even though it sucked at everything else. you like turn based too but don't wish it now? start wishing it or go fuck yourself!

 

[SuicideBunny]

who likes real time crawlers and why?

dungeon master and chaos strikes back fans? because it was quite good (to them)?

of course it would be a different game if it was turn based, it would be a good game.

tb does not automatically make a good game, stop being a retard and assuming that just because something doesn't fall within your personal taste means it's automatically objectively worse than the things that do.

just look at how much hype D:OS created just because it was turn based, even though it sucked at everything else.

it had good world design, the whole thing with fields and elemental interaction was quite superb and a few other things. so no, it didn't suck at everything else, even though there were quite many sucky things in it.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Sorry but I never got into RT blobber combat. It always feels awful and click spammy like Diablo and its ilk. Either make it fast, fun. good and cool like a real FPS (look at Heretic or Hexen) or make it turn based and tactical. The in-between place where EotB, Grimrock, Ishar and so fort exist isn't a great place for good gameplay.

 

[Infinitron]

Writing off an entire genre is stupid.

I don't understand why you couldn't implement an attack of opportunity-type mechanic to prevent the tango, or rather make it into a tactical choice with risks and rewards rather than "the right way to play".

 

[Reapa]

who likes real time crawlers and why?

dungeon master and chaos strikes back fans? because it was quite good (to them)?

of course it would be a different game if it was turn based, it would be a good game.

tb does not automatically make a good game, stop being a retard and assuming that just because something doesn't fall within your personal taste means it's automatically objectively worse than the things that do.

just look at how much hype D:OS created just because it was turn based, even though it sucked at everything else.

it had good world design, the whole thing with fields and elemental interaction was quite superb and a few other things. so no, it didn't suck at everything else, even though there were quite many sucky things in it.

you're splitting hairs

 

[SuicideBunny]

 

[octavius]

A thing to keep in mind is that a majority of the Codex are, paradoxically, probably not the best candidates to give advice on an RT Blobber, since they don't like the genre (See all those "Make it TB instead of RT" posts). So just like asking a Bioware fan what they want out of a game with actual gameplay ("Implement a button to skip combat!!one1!"), you might not always get answers that are wise to put into practice right away.

Personally I'm embivalent about RT blobbers. Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back are still among my favourite games, and I had a blast replaying CSB a few years ago. But I still think the genre is a dead end, since nobody managed to improve on the formula, and free movement in 3D was made possible.

That said, people don't play RT Blobbers for the Combat but for the dungeon design. Combat should be there to serve as a resource attrition mechanic and a Skinnerbox for people who love numbers going up. If combat in an RT Blobber is forgettable, you're doing it right. Trying to be clever and making it challenging will only lead to frustration on the player's side, since the genre limitations don't allow for much tactical flexibility and you'll ultimately only force them to perform the combat mambo in different patterns, but nothing more.

Well said.

 

[octavius]

Writing off an entire genre is stupid.

I don't understand why couldn't implement an attack of opportunity-type mechanic to prevent the tango, or rather make it into a tactical choice with risks and rewards rather than "the right way to play".

So why did none of the numerous RT blobbers from Eye of the Beholder to Anvil of Dawn do this? To me they were all decline after Chaos Strikes Back, while a game like Ultima Underworld showed the way forward.

 

[Gozma]

I remember playing the EoB + LoL games with my brother and we never did combat mambo stuff, except in the very small number of places where you really need to do it, like the final battle of EoB2 or against beholders, absurdly enough. We "knew" that this was just a RTization of Wizardry type games and doing action game stuff would be "cheating" the way people know spamming save and reload is cheating (the Westwood RT blobbers are about 95% designed for you to never combat mambo or dodge stuff though - Dungeon Master is a different story).

A nice thing about RT blobbers is tension during exploration. If you have to be ready to react to something appearing behind you/around the corner it adds a little something. I still got that feeling in some of the dark purple Drow levels in EoB1 playing a couple of years ago. Although it's so nice to be able to fly around going through 3 dungeon floors in 10 seconds at the speed of button in those old step blobbers I'd almost hate for shit like sticky enemies or AoO to ruin it.

 

[Jaesun]

A nice thing about RT blobbers is tension during exploration.

This 1000 times. You have to capture that. Like when the party first come upon a rust monster in Dungeon Master, and discovers you need to STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THEM (don't get close to them).

Then when you are exploring around, and you then hear one of those bastards again, but you don't know where they are....

 

[kanda]

A nice thing about RT blobbers is tension during exploration.

This 1000 times. You have to capture that. Like when the party first come upon a rust monster in Dungeon Master, and discovers you need to STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THEM (don't get close to them).
Then when you are exploring around, and you then hear one of those bastards again, but you don't know where they are....

I am glad you guys enjoy this as i share this feeling. I will forever remember in Chaos Strikes Back the huge room made of fake walls with a lot of Red Dragons behind these illusions. You had to advance carefully and never know what is next to you ! Or also falling in a trap in front of an unexpected dragon at the lower level (wich is not actually the last one as the last level was located on top of the Dungeon), throwing everything i can find in the hands of my heroes (i remember throwing the rabbit foot artefact, by reflex) , as i did jump into that pit to flee away from enemies, and just meet this stronger one ! Or listening some strange noise, getting worried about what is aawiting me ! And what about these beholders in dungeon master, while you are recovering in a room, they surprisingly cast a spell to open to door forcing you to engage combat...! All these examples are what i want to drive the level design of Dungeon Kingdom: Sign of Moon (wink to Jaesun ^^) , and as somebody mentioned here in the post, Dungeon Crawlers like Dungeon Master and even more Chaos Strikes Back are great , and mainly because their donjon's level design. Some people complained here the game does not look great, but if it would be wonderfull to get the best graphics, that's not the most important, i am not doing a graphic contest, the level ambience and the level design is what i want you' to enjoy in dungeon kingdom in first place. (note that's why i also choosed this kind portraits, i think sometime some nice portraits are more immersive that an ugly 3d model).

 

[Crooked Bee]

Chaos Strikes Back as main inspiration? Color me impressed. I do think it's one of the best dungeon crawlers ever. So if you can deliver the same quality of dungeon design + improved AI + physics, I'll be your number one fan. Well, maybe number 2, right after octavius.

Jaesun It's not just about tension (though that is super important), it's also about real-time monster movement as an additional challenge/additional tactics. Knowing the monsters' movement patters, gating them off, etc. Also, atmosphere-wise, it's the feeling of a "living" dungeon. CSB did that in an unparalleled way.

I think there's actually at least some tactical potential still remaining untapped in the real-time grid-based dungeon crawler genre (whether party-based or not -- your party is just an additional resource thingy here as far as I'm concerned). Grimrock was extremely simplistic in this regard, true, but DM + CSB weren't, and there are still things left to build upon.