Dungeon Rats - first impressions and general feedback

[†††]

Do you have a neurostim?
You can net him first too. You should kill him before he acts because he drops a good EE neuro

I have, I thought of a strategy, just writing it down here just in case:

I form a bottleneck backtracking to where the previous fight took place
Spear guy is always the first to come close, he uses 2 nets, then he can't back away thanks to the bottleneck and I kill him easy.
Now let's say I use a neurostim to get 15 AP (8 DEX) but it will be actually 14 AP in that turn
My dear friend Domecritus comes next and he hits me first
I net him (10 AP left), let's say I manage to get a hit to the head with 22% THC (from my experience it does him 15-19 dmg). That leaves me with 4 AP, I can't throw him a bomb without moving first, so if I move I can't throw the bomb (2 AP left). Let's say I'm not using the aimed attack, instead I move (8 AP left) and throw a liquid fire so he doesn't touch me (4 AP). But actually I can't since I have to move 2 grids away or the liquid fire will hit me due to how the bottleneck is formed (I can always deal with damaging myself and not wasting 2 extra AP though). Then I throw my 3 bombs to him, if he isn't killed then I pray that he doesn't kill me in the next turn. If I'm still alive I try to get lucky and hit him (using another stim if needed) and hope that does it. Even then, I'll be very weakened and still have to deal with knife guy who will throw me a net while crossbow guy shoots me from afar.

It is too luck based. Will report back if I have success

 

[Serus]

Do you have a neurostim?
You can net him first too. You should kill him before he acts because he drops a good EE neuro

I have, I thought of a strategy, just writing it down here just in case:

I form a bottleneck backtracking to where the previous fight took place
Spear guy is always the first to come close, he uses 2 nets, then he can't back away thanks to the bottleneck and I kill him easy.
Now let's say I use a neurostim to get 15 AP (8 DEX) but it will be actually 14 AP in that turn
My dear friend Domecritus comes next and he hits me first
I net him (10 AP left), let's say I manage to get a hit to the head with 22% THC (from my experience it does him 15-19 dmg). That leaves me with 4 AP, I can't throw him a bomb without moving first, so if I move I can't throw the bomb (2 AP left). Let's say I'm not using the aimed attack, instead I move (8 AP left) and throw a liquid fire so he doesn't touch me (4 AP). But actually I can't since I have to move 2 grids away or the liquid fire will hit me due to how the bottleneck is formed (I can always deal with damaging myself and not wasting 2 extra AP though). Then I throw my 3 bombs to him, if he isn't killed then I pray that he doesn't kill me in the next turn. If I'm still alive I try to get lucky and hit him (using another stim if needed) and hope that does it. Even then, I'll be very weakened and still have to deal with knife guy who will throw me a net while crossbow guy shoots me from afar.

It is too luck based. Will report back if I have success

There is one thing I don't get. You talk about spear/dodge playthrough SOLO, correct? But from your posts I got that you also have 8DEX/8CON ? For a spear/dodge solo on murderous psychopath? That doesn't look to be very min-maxed to me but maybe I'm missing something. I'm only playing the game on Tough Bastard and haven't finished it yet so I'm not a person to talk with any authority on that matter.

 

[Parabalus]

Do you have a neurostim?
You can net him first too. You should kill him before he acts because he drops a good EE neuro

I have, I thought of a strategy, just writing it down here just in case:

I form a bottleneck backtracking to where the previous fight took place
Spear guy is always the first to come close, he uses 2 nets, then he can't back away thanks to the bottleneck and I kill him easy.
Now let's say I use a neurostim to get 15 AP (8 DEX) but it will be actually 14 AP in that turn
My dear friend Domecritus comes next and he hits me first
I net him (10 AP left), let's say I manage to get a hit to the head with 22% THC (from my experience it does him 15-19 dmg). That leaves me with 4 AP, I can't throw him a bomb without moving first, so if I move I can't throw the bomb (2 AP left). Let's say I'm not using the aimed attack, instead I move (8 AP left) and throw a liquid fire so he doesn't touch me (4 AP). But actually I can't since I have to move 2 grids away or the liquid fire will hit me due to how the bottleneck is formed (I can always deal with damaging myself and not wasting 2 extra AP though). Then I throw my 3 bombs to him, if he isn't killed then I pray that he doesn't kill me in the next turn. If I'm still alive I try to get lucky and hit him (using another stim if needed) and hope that does it. Even then, I'll be very weakened and still have to deal with knife guy who will throw me a net while crossbow guy shoots me from afar.

It is too luck based. Will report back if I have success

You can use it from inventory in the preparatory phase to get the full 15 AP.

Can't you use the stim, then either net+aimed:head or just bomb Democritus to death immediately?

Do you have a neurostim?
You can net him first too. You should kill him before he acts because he drops a good EE neuro

I have, I thought of a strategy, just writing it down here just in case:

I form a bottleneck backtracking to where the previous fight took place
Spear guy is always the first to come close, he uses 2 nets, then he can't back away thanks to the bottleneck and I kill him easy.
Now let's say I use a neurostim to get 15 AP (8 DEX) but it will be actually 14 AP in that turn
My dear friend Domecritus comes next and he hits me first
I net him (10 AP left), let's say I manage to get a hit to the head with 22% THC (from my experience it does him 15-19 dmg). That leaves me with 4 AP, I can't throw him a bomb without moving first, so if I move I can't throw the bomb (2 AP left). Let's say I'm not using the aimed attack, instead I move (8 AP left) and throw a liquid fire so he doesn't touch me (4 AP). But actually I can't since I have to move 2 grids away or the liquid fire will hit me due to how the bottleneck is formed (I can always deal with damaging myself and not wasting 2 extra AP though). Then I throw my 3 bombs to him, if he isn't killed then I pray that he doesn't kill me in the next turn. If I'm still alive I try to get lucky and hit him (using another stim if needed) and hope that does it. Even then, I'll be very weakened and still have to deal with knife guy who will throw me a net while crossbow guy shoots me from afar.

It is too luck based. Will report back if I have success

There is one thing I don't get. You talk about spear/dodge playthrough SOLO, correct? But from your posts I got that you also have 8DEX/8CON ? For a spear/dodge solo on murderous psychopath? That doesn't look to be very min-maxed to me but maybe I'm missing something. I'm only playing the game on Tough Bastard and haven't finished it yet so I'm not a person to talk with any authority on that matter.

He's playing sword/block, his comment was that only spear/dodge were a viable solo (it isn't).

 

[†††]

There is one thing I don't get. You talk about spear/dodge playthrough SOLO, correct? But from your posts I got that you also have 8DEX/8CON ? For a spear/dodge solo on murderous psychopath? That doesn't look to be very min-maxed to me but maybe I'm missing something. I'm only playing the game on Tough Bastard and haven't finished it yet so I'm not a person to talk with any authority on that matter.

I said that spear is the ideal build, I'm using sword right now. stats are 7/8/8/8/7/2. I chose it that way because I did a practice run where I dumped INT, resulting in pitiful SP gains, and lower STR resulting in pitiful dmg. To clarify I haven't had any problems until now (except for the yngar fight, because I get net'd 3 times in a row unless I bring them bomb hell).

Just tried the strategy with slight variations (like throwing the bombs before spear guy died and thus skipping the liquid fire). Managed to kill democritus but I forgot there was an extra guy and knife guy netted me anyways and I met my death. Let's try again and see if RNGod smile at me

You can use it from inventory in the preparatory phase to get the full 15 AP.

Can't you use the stim, then either net+aimed:head or just bomb Democritus to death immediately?

He's playing sword/block, his comment was that only spear/dodge were a viable solo (it isn't).

I need to run away to the bottleneck first so no stim in preparatory phase. The 3 bombs will leave him in with 10hp left approx. Still will get netted by the other guys after. Maybe I should try using the stim, 3 bombs and napalm in the first turn and pray that they get killed. But the problem is that I have to think about the next fight while burning away my consumables, which won't be easier probably.

Also to clarify, I said that spear/block is the build that works consistently in Solo MS. I know some guy beat it with a slowpoke in the steam forums (or so he claims) but my guess is that he had to retry some fights at least close to 100 times. That's not my definition of consistency and reliability.

EDIT: tried the above. It leaves him with 17 HP (giving him 10 endurance and medium steel armor was a fantastic idea as well), then everyone else acts and I'm with 5 HP left and surrounded by 4 guys. I don't think this will end well... I'll try another day. Enough gaming for today

 

[Fenix]

Democritus

Can you try to wait out nets begind liquid fire?
I going to use it for my 6 AP character because net removes all of them.
So it will be Neurostim + fire. Also I'm not sure AI will throw the net if my char behind the firewall.

 

[†††]

I finally did it with 15 HP left. All it took was reloading an earlier save and pumping alchemy up to 7 to create more and better liquid fires to null their nets. This time the sequencing took a slight change and instead of spearguy coming first at me, it was knifeguy, I think in the end it benefitted me. Just 3 tries this time, and one was because I stupidly forgot to poison my blade. I'll tackle the next battles tomorrow, it's going to be hard.

 

[Fenix]

I'm stopped before 4 crossbows+hammer guy.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Just out of curiosity, how did you guys get past the 3 Elder Scorpions going solo?

They each have an attack value of 138, hit with the damage of a poisoned two handed sword, have very strong armour & DR & there are no choke points to bottleneck them.

Did you just bomb them a couple of times?

 

[Fenix]

Which one?

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

The three brutal Elder Scorpions, the second fight after getting Roxanne's Forge, the fight right before Ishmail.

 

[†††]

Just out of curiosity, how did you guys get past the 3 Elder Scorpions going solo?

They each have an attack value of 138, hit with the damage of a poisoned two handed sword, have very strong armour & DR & there are no choke points to bottleneck them.

Did you just bomb them a couple of times?

Enough blocking did it for me without problems, also apply antidote in prep mode. Sword is a great weapon to deal with them due to the bleeding it causes

So, related to my previous posts, I can't get past Scaurus... without wasting my resources. I did beat the battle using frag bombs but I don't want to, since Enforcer and the constructs come next. I don't think I can figure out a way to get past this with scarcity on mind. My mind said enough, I lost the desire to play. Having to plan for 5 battles ahead is too much for me. I'll stick to playing with a party if I ever replay the game again

 

[Fenix]

The three brutal Elder Scorpions, the second fight after getting Roxanne's Forge, the fight right before Ishmail.

Dunno. With spear it isn't that bad, and with my 4 Dex hammerman it was just plain easy with 150 block rating.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

The three brutal Elder Scorpions, the second fight after getting Roxanne's Forge, the fight right before Ishmail.

Dunno. With spear it isn't that bad, and with my 4 Dex hammerman it was just plain easy with 150 block rating.

If you already had 150 Block by the time of the Elder Scorpions, what on earth is stopping you from killing the four crossbowmen & one blocker? That fight is one of the easiest for a block build...?

 

[Fenix]

Nothing, I just need to alfatest Underrail, so things got stale.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Vault Dweller

What was your thinking in making Knockdown so rubbish?

Firstly, a successful knockdown pushes the opponent away one square, meaning that you can't follow-up with an easy strike. Sure, another character could have a shot, but they're rarely in the right position, ie: behind the enemy being knocked down & back. Archers maybe? If they have line of sight in a brawl where knocking someone down might make a difference, ie: when there's still lots of bodies in play. But whatever the potential benefits of companion action, it's still the heavy hitter who's struck the knockdown who's going to want to do the follow up. I found this strange every time I tried it. Heavy hitters don't normally have the AP to move a square after a big hit & do the follow up as well. Is this the only game that does knockdowns so retardedly or were you inspired by something else?

Secondly, a knockdown doesn't apply poison. No idea why.

Thirdly, an enemy who's been knocked down can immediately get up the very next turn, move and strike you, so it barely seems to apply any hindrance to a determined AI at all. Sure, if they're turn is after yours it might drop them out of this particular turn, but if they went first then there's no turns missed on their part. What made you design your knockdowns this retarded way?

Regarding diagonals:

To what extent do they provide an additional flanking bonus?

What are the various bonuses for positional flanking? If it was stated in the game then I must have missed it?

With diagonals and the like being so utterly broken in rendering even the most hardened defence null and void, why were there not more choke points available to smart players? Why are most of the battles set in wide open spaces with no terrain based tactics?

Why did you want to make regular sword and board type builds so chronically unenjoyable to play?

Regarding criticals:

How exactly is the critical calculated? Some characters seem to be able to crit routinely, such as the Enforcer, even against the most hardy of armour and defence rating, and yet even with a low CS defence one doesn't seem to get hit by too many criticals. If all the characters are playing by the same rules, then surely the max CS rating would be about 165? And yet someone like the Enforcer would still crit that person with consummate ease it would seem?

Also with regards to criticals, in a game where you cannot increase your health pool & combined with that where you cannot heal during combat, doesn't receiving a critical basically just mean hitting the reload button for most encounters in the later stages of the game? An ant critting for 6 early game is not the same as a boss critting for 25 in the late game, ie: the damage has scaled but the health pool hasn't. Ergo: the further you go in the game the more your game is consumable dominated, what with you needing to neutralise the big hitters first turn as much as possible and all that.

Regarding consumables:

Why are some consumables rarer than others? Ok, I get that some might have greater power ratings, sure, there should be some kind of scaling relating to power, however, what determined the final quantity of each resource?

With regard to nets: as the poster above stated, they are useful as a team tool, more so than knockdown, however, surely playing solo they are game-breaking? What exactly is one supposed to do while one is netted? Baring in mind that the rarest consumable is AP stims. Again, one could use other consumables to neutralise net-wielders as quickly as possible but, again, during the later stages of the game one is already concentrating all the 'quick-death' consumables on the boss, the consumable use inflation for solo players should be obvious. Perhaps you should tweak the solo experience to have no nets in play for the AI? Either that or increase the number of stims & their roots accordingly?

Regarding saving the game:

Why is the player unable to save during combat?

Thoughts on character building:

It's too boring. Maxing one weapon & one defence gets old really quickly, especially as doing so produces no perceivable change in outcome, it's more a case of putting points in things to keep up with the game rather than putting points in something to get ahead of the game. One could even argue it's the first cRPG ever where, through the course of the game, you actually decline in power as you level-up, becoming more and more reliant on consumables with every step.

The Armour system is just baffling. Playing a block build one's defence is dramatically reduced by wearing armour, armour seems to be completely devoid of defensive value beyond damage reduction. Again, the better armour you put on, the worse your defence rating gets. This might sound good on paper, but the result in your game is hundreds of armours that don't mean anything, they're all shite because they're all meaningless. A DR7 armour with 12 armour penalty is pretty much the same as a DR8 armour with 17 armour penalty & by the time you get to a DR11 suit of armour, the penalty is so severe, 32 armour penalty, that one has no clue as to what is or isn't 'an improvement'. Being hit once for 10 damage is the same as being hit twice for 5 damage. Also, if THC is attack - defence + 50%, why is a 150 defence character being hit by anyone? Do all of the late game enemies have 170+ attack rating?

When an enemy strikes you, are they striking the shield or the armour? If my shield is D14 and my armour DR8 then what is my actual DR? And how do helmets figure in this? The character sheet only displays the armour value as your DR rating.

The problem of THC and better attacks:

As you build your character and gain more THC by improving your weapon stats, your Fast attack improves throughout the game, noticeably so, however, the better attacks are always limited by being whole-number-based rather than percentage scaled, basically, something like a Head-shot can never go above 75% chance (unless the opponent in incapacitated), because it says to do this attack you will have -25% chance to hit. So you could have a blindingly strong 100% Fast attack & massively out-level the opponent, but still only get a 75% chance to hit with the good attack. Again, this is a failure of scaling inherent to the character building system. Because of the nature of the stat system, even Fast shots by 140+ attackers don't usually get above 93% against naked opponents, so the best you'll tend to see a Head Shot is around the 65% mark. Again, it might look good on paper, but the reality is that the player never feels like they've 'improved' at their skill, they will never have a great chance of getting that head shot, which discourages people from trying out all the effort put into various shot types. You could have an attack rating of 200 and the Headshot chance will still be about 69%.

Weapon drops:

Without investing heavily in crafting, certain weapons will simply not exist in the game for you after Iron. Steel arrives so late that there simply isn't enough combat opponents available to drop all kinds of weaponry for all builds in steel. And yet the late game is pretty much reliant on you having at least steel. This puts too much of a burden on ensuring someone can craft and put a lot of points into crafting. Similar to the stim problem above, there's just so little content in the late game but the late game is where everything ramps up considerably, a sort of doubling of requirements while halving the tools available. Again, this will impact build choices and engender sterility to replayability.

If this was intended as a party-based game then it would have been great if we could have made a party from scratch. Having the set companions, again, adds a great amount of sterility to replays. I'm not entirely sure why you went with companions at all really, it's not the Baldur's Gate market you're even aiming at?​

 

[†††]

IncendiaryDevice

In regards to knockdown hits, I commented in the AoD thread that a way of making them useful is to combine them with other weapon; let’s say you knockdown an enemy with your paltry marculus and have like 3 AP left... maybe you can’t move and hit the enemy with the hammer again but you haven’t realized that a knocked down enemy is a 100% THC with any weapon regardless of weapon proficiency. So even if you concentrated all your points in hammer, you can still get a point blank hit with a crossbow, throwing weapon or even a bow/spear if you keep a 1H hammer in the quick use slots. Such combination worked wonders for me in an AoD hybrid build where my character wasn’t suppose to be good at combat. The knockdown success rate is based solely on hammer skill instead of hard stats so with a good level you can make consistent knockdowns that in turn leave the enemy defenseless. If you have put some points in the CS skill as well you can create quite a ruckus.

Note that I’m talking about solo application, you can make a hammer tank in DR whose sole job is to knockdown guys while Roxanna/Ismail/Yngvar finish them with ranged weapons

 

[lulmidurka]

When an enemy strikes you, are they striking the shield or the armour? If my shield is D14 and my armour DR8 then what is my actual DR?

> not knowing this
> calling something retarded
> ...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller

What was your thinking in making Knockdown so rubbish? Firstly, a successful knockdown pushes the opponent away one square...​

I don't have time to reply to the entire thing point by point but I'll answer what I can.

The game is using all AoD systems designed for a single character. We didn't have enough time for a complete do-over. So knockdown works the same way it works in AoD, pushing the enemies away which gives you a breathing room when fighting multiple enemies. Plus you can always switch to ranged (throwing works best there) as prone enemies are easy to hit. ​

Thirdly, an enemy who's been knocked down can immediately get up the very next turn, move and strike you, so it barely seems to apply any hindrance to a determined AI at all. Sure, if they're turn is after yours it might drop them out of this particular turn, but if they went first then there's no turns missed on their part. What made you design your knockdowns this retarded way?

You can knock people out for 2 turns. ​

Why did you want to make regular sword and board type builds so chronically unenjoyable to play?

What would be an enjoyable way to play it?​

How exactly is the critical calculated? Some characters seem to be able to crit routinely, such as the Enforcer, even against the most hardy of armour and defence rating, and yet even with a low CS defence one doesn't seem to get hit by too many criticals. If all the characters are playing by the same rules, then surely the max CS rating would be about 165? And yet someone like the Enforcer would still crit that person with consummate ease it would seem?

% = CS - vsCS + applicable modifiers such as weapons' passives that increase CS chance or crafting bonuses, iirc. All characters are using the same rules and limits.

Also with regards to criticals, in a game where you cannot increase your health pool & combined with that where you cannot heal during combat, doesn't receiving a critical basically just mean hitting the reload button for most encounters in the later stages of the game? An ant critting for 6 early game is not the same as a boss critting for 25 in the late game, ie: the damage has scaled but the health pool hasn't.

But the armor has (better types, metal, and crafting).​

Why are some consumables rarer than others? Ok, I get that some might have greater power ratings, sure, there should be some kind of scaling relating to power, however, what determined the final quantity of each resource?

Balance.

With regard to nets: as the poster above stated, they are useful as a team tool, more so than knockdown, however, surely playing solo they are game-breaking?

Give your character an edge he isn't supposed to have? Yes. ​

Regarding saving the game:

Why is the player unable to save during combat?

To avoid saving and reloading after every successful attack.

Thoughts on character building:

It's too boring....

Agree. ​

The Armour system is just baffling. Playing a block build one's defence is dramatically reduced by wearing armour, armour seems to be completely devoid of defensive value beyond damage reduction.

What other defensive value do you expect? Making you harder to hit?

Technically, Block doesn't reduce your defense. At some point Oscar wanted to make light blockers more viable so he added a bonus that wasn't there before. So if you put on heavy armor the bonus is gone, but the *old* balance remains the same.

Again, the better armour you put on, the worse your defence rating gets. This might sound good on paper, but the result in your game is hundreds of armours that don't mean anything, they're all shite because they're all meaningless...

As someone who spent over fifty hours testing armored blockers, I disagree.

When an enemy strikes you, are they striking the shield or the armour?

If you block, the damage is reduced by the combined DR. I'm pretty sure the textbox states that.

And how do helmets figure in this?

It protects the head, i.e. helmet's DR is used to reduce damage take when the enemy hits your head with an aimed attack.​

If this was intended as a party-based game then it would have been great if we could have made a party from scratch. Having the set companions, again, adds a great amount of sterility to replays. I'm not entirely sure why you went with companions at all really, it's not the Baldur's Gate market you're even aiming at?

We tested many features and elements we wanted to use in Colony Ship.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

IncendiaryDevice

In regards to knockdown hits, I commented in the AoD thread that a way of making them useful is to combine them with other weapon; let’s say you knockdown an enemy with your paltry marculus and have like 3 AP left... maybe you can’t move and hit the enemy with the hammer again but you haven’t realized that a knocked down enemy is a 100% THC with any weapon regardless of weapon proficiency. So even if you concentrated all your points in hammer, you can still get a point blank hit with a crossbow, throwing weapon or even a bow/spear if you keep a 1H hammer in the quick use slots. Such combination worked wonders for me in an AoD hybrid build where my character wasn’t suppose to be good at combat. The knockdown success rate is based solely on hammer skill instead of hard stats so with a good level you can make consistent knockdowns that in turn leave the enemy defenseless. If you have put some points in the CS skill as well you can create quite a ruckus.

Note that I’m talking about solo application, you can make a hammer tank in DR whose sole job is to knockdown guys while Roxanna/Ismail/Yngvar finish them with ranged weapons

Yes, I said as much in my post. What I also said was that, for a heavy strike player, surely the whole point is to be able to then whack the downed enemy with your heavy weapon. Let's say you have 10 AP, knockdown takes 5 AP, you can then move and do a rubbish Fast or you can do an equally weak throwing axe or something, when the whole point, ideally, would be to follow up the knockdown with a 5 AP Power or Head Shot. That would be synergy. Take it down to 8 AP and you don't even get to follow up with a Fast, hence the 'workaround' of one weak throwing axe or whatever. & again, combining this with my other point, even if you had 12 AP (quite unusual for a heavy hitting player) and could follow it up with strong hit, you still get the automatic attack penalty for using an aimed strike. Missing knocked down or netted enemies is 'hilarious'.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I don't have time to reply to the entire thing point by point but I'll answer what I can.

Oh well, thanks for what little you did reluctantly talk about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Darth Roxor]

Knockdown so rubbish

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Knoc

 

[Parabalus]

Just out of curiosity, how did you guys get past the 3 Elder Scorpions going solo?

They each have an attack value of 138, hit with the damage of a poisoned two handed sword, have very strong armour & DR & there are no choke points to bottleneck them.

Did you just bomb them a couple of times?

Enough blocking did it for me without problems, also apply antidote in prep mode. Sword is a great weapon to deal with them due to the bleeding it causes

So, related to my previous posts, I can't get past Scaurus... without wasting my resources. I did beat the battle using frag bombs but I don't want to, since Enforcer and the constructs come next. I don't think I can figure out a way to get past this with scarcity on mind. My mind said enough, I lost the desire to play. Having to plan for 5 battles ahead is too much for me. I'll stick to playing with a party if I ever replay the game again

Probably a bit late, but you can run back, towards the elevator, to LoS the archers. This will also decouple enemies since they move with different APs.

You can also LoS with the wooden door frames right next to the start, there is a spot where if you wait Scaurus will run up to you, so you skip his spear interrupt range.

Otherwise just start in his face and kill him, the center sqaure is inside his range, since he has that extended spear.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Knoc

knockdown was one of my most important moves when playing both aod and dr as a solo hammer lad

git gud nigga seriously

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Knoc

knockdown was one of my most important moves when playing both aod and dr as a solo hammer lad

git gud nigga seriously

And you haven't played it since...

But anyway, whoop, it was your favourite, you mean like the colour brown is your favourite colour, just because?

If you're trying to make conversation, perhaps you could explain exactly which combats you used it in and in which combats it made a difference.

& that wasn't the complaint anyway, the complaint was that it pushed the enemy back one square, making taking advantage of the knockdown beyone whoop happy fun animation to look at a complete impossibility, unless you were either High on stims or running with a high dex hammer build. <--- see, that's actually having a conversation.

Git gud at forum'ing you unrelenting shitposter, this isn't a politics thread...


or is it...