Dungeon Rats - first impressions and general feedback

[IncendiaryDevice]

Knoc

knockdown was one of my most important moves when playing both aod and dr as a solo hammer lad

git gud nigga seriously

And you haven't played it since...

But anyway, whoop, it was your favourite, you mean like the colour brown is your favourite colour, just because?

If you're trying to make conversation, perhaps you could explain exactly which combats you used it in and in which combats it made a difference.

& that wasn't the complaint anyway, the complaint was that it pushed the enemy back one square, making taking advantage of the knockdown beyone whoop happy fun animation to look at a complete impossibility, unless you were either High on stims or running with a high dex hammer build. <--- see, that's actually having a conversation.

Git gud at forum'ing you unrelenting shitposter, this isn't a politics thread...


or is it...

 

[Parabalus]

Knoc

knockdown was one of my most important moves when playing both aod and dr as a solo hammer lad

git gud nigga seriously

And you haven't played it since...

But anyway, whoop, it was your favourite, you mean like the colour brown is your favourite colour, just because?

If you're trying to make conversation, perhaps you could explain exactly which combats you used it in and in which combats it made a difference.

& that wasn't the complaint anyway, the complaint was that it pushed the enemy back one square, making taking advantage of the knockdown beyone whoop happy fun animation to look at a complete impossibility, unless you were either High on stims or running with a high dex hammer build. <--- see, that's actually having a conversation.

Git gud at forum'ing you unrelenting shitposter, this isn't a politics thread...


or is it...

DR is right though, I used knockdown liberally in both parties and solo hammer/block (after patches) run.

Use a belt weapon or orient the knockdown to slam into walls/characters, it's great.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

DR is right though, I used knockdown liberally in both parties and solo hammer/block (after patches) run.

Use a belt weapon or orient the knockdown to slam into walls/characters, it's great.

Yes dear, if you apply the 'workaround' to have the opponent backed against something, then they're not pushed back are they...

So, yes, you clearly find knockdown to be preferable if it doesn't knock people back, otherwise you wouldn't look for a way to workaround the flaw...

 

[Parabalus]

DR is right though, I used knockdown liberally in both parties and solo hammer/block (after patches) run.

Use a belt weapon or orient the knockdown to slam into walls/characters, it's great.

Yes dear, if you apply the 'workaround' to have the opponent backed against something, then they're not pushed back are they...

So, yes, you clearly find knockdown to be preferable if it doesn't knock people back, otherwise you wouldn't look for a way to workaround the flaw...

It means it's not completely braindead, nothing wrong with it.

Imagine if bombs didn't knockback and you could 3x bomb 4+ people, the pushback is reasonable.
.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Probably a bit late, but you can run back, towards the elevator, to LoS the archers. This will also decouple enemies since they move with different APs.

You can also LoS with the wooden door frames right next to the start, there is a spot where if you wait Scaurus will run up to you, so you skip his spear interrupt range.

Otherwise just start in his face and kill him, the center sqaure is inside his range, since he has that extended spear.

Also, thanks for reminding me.

LoS:

You can stand behind your melee dude with a crossbow, back one square off:

X....

. M

And hit the person they're fighting, however, moving across to the other side:

……X

. M

Can result in you not being able to hit them.

Just another little glitch I found in my run. Anyway, carry on...

 

[Parabalus]

Probably a bit late, but you can run back, towards the elevator, to LoS the archers. This will also decouple enemies since they move with different APs.

You can also LoS with the wooden door frames right next to the start, there is a spot where if you wait Scaurus will run up to you, so you skip his spear interrupt range.

Otherwise just start in his face and kill him, the center sqaure is inside his range, since he has that extended spear.

Also, thanks for reminding me.

LoS:

You can stand behind your melee dude with a crossbow, back one square off:

X....

. M

And hit the person they're fighting, however, moving across to the other side:

……X

. M

Can result in you not being able to hit them.

Just another little glitch I found in my run. Anyway, carry on...

There are a lot of those, especially egregious with bombs, when you want to bomb in the middle of enemies,

xxx
eoe
xex
pxp

Sometimes you can bomb o from the left p when you can't from the right one.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

It means it's not completely braindead, nothing wrong with it.

Imagine if bombs didn't knockback and you could 3x bomb 4+ people, the pushback is reasonable.

Reasonable?

Your 'solution' is to try and move the enemy into a position where they wont be pushed back or to use an unoptimized weapon for your build to take advantage of a skill that is entirely inherent to that specific build.

Sure dude, hammer knockdown is fine, just use a throwing knife or a one handed crossbow to take advantage of it... (sarcasm) <---- do you not see that? Do you have no idea what I'm on about?

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

There are a lot of those, especially egregious with bombs, when you want to bomb in the middle of enemies,

xxx
eoe
xex
pxp

Sometimes you can bomb o from the left p when you can't from the right one.

A really ludicrous one is where you have 2 dudes attacking you, standing right next to each other, one in front of you, one to your corner & you can't throw anything at the dude to your corner. At that point I'm guessing people are ragequitting because of the unrelenting retardedness rather that anything to do with combat.

 

[Parabalus]

It means it's not completely braindead, nothing wrong with it.

Imagine if bombs didn't knockback and you could 3x bomb 4+ people, the pushback is reasonable.

Reasonable?

Your 'solution' is to try and move the enemy into a position where they wont be pushed back or to use an unoptimized weapon for your build to take advantage of a skill that is entirely inherent to that specific build.

Sure dude, hammer knockdown is fine, just use a throwing knife or a one handed crossbow to take advantage of it... (sarcasm) <---- do you not see that? Do you have no idea what I'm on about?

The throwing knife or xbow comment was for AoD hybrid stuff, not DR, where you knockdown something with a bomb because you have 1/1 combat skills.

In a party setting it's enough to pay attention to knockback stuff into your party members, maybe use a smaller belt weapon from your weapon class, not much else.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

In a party setting it's enough to pay attention to knockback stuff into your party members

Not sure I can remember that many fights where such a manoeuvre would be anything other than opportunism rather than pre-planned tactics. If you're behind their lines standing behind one of their dudes then you'll have a bank of archers on your back, unless you've taken them out first turn with your archers, in which case the battle's likely over in your favour whatever you do...

 

[Fenix]

a knocked down enemy is a 100% THC with any weapon regardless of weapon proficiency

Not exactly.
I bombed Raxane and got only 50% THC for her lying body with Per 4 for crossbow. Probably got rectangular shiled.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

I was playing Dungeon Rats again, trying with different builds. The game is so much harder now than before... there is no comparison. I made an nonoptimal build and had to resort to alchemy in order to survive later on. In fact, I refuse to believe that people is beating this thing now without alchemy with most builds. Brutal. That probably explains the most recent negative reviews.

 

[†††]

a knocked down enemy is a 100% THC with any weapon regardless of weapon proficiency

Not exactly.
I bombed Raxane and got only 50% THC for her lying body with Per 4 for crossbow. Probably got rectangular shiled.

mm maybe PER has something to do? I remember having high PER. Also that was AoD, I thought DR would be the same

 

[Fenix]

That crude shield has 10%THC penalty, so probably it should be 60.
Actually not sure and it could be cavalerist shield without one...
But it it's 60, then you lvl 2 skill with 10 Per can explain 100% THC.

 

[lulmidurka]

Not sure I can remember that many fights where such a manoeuvre would be anything other than opportunism rather than pre-planned tactics. If you're behind their lines standing behind one of their dudes then you'll have a bank of archers on your back, unless you've taken them out first turn with your archers, in which case the battle's likely over in your favour whatever you do...

You are just too fucking dumb for kids games.
Literally every fight, you are fighting in a squared arena, their melees run into you. Now, the key in planning, for morons, is to present (shortest path, dummie) the AI your dude without the hammer and cover your flank with the level wall. Does your brain follow this genius KnOcKdOwN tactic? No? You can even wait out wrong initiative!
Talking to people who played through the game (and AOD I assume) without knowing how shields works if flabbergasting.
Knockdown is OP if anything. Because a million enemies dont have helmets. Which means barbed, poisoned arrows to the head borderline instagib.
git gud

 

[Parabalus]

I was playing Dungeon Rats again, trying with different builds. The game is so much harder now than before... there is no comparison. I made an nonoptimal build and had to resort to alchemy in order to survive later on. In fact, I refuse to believe that people is beating this thing now without alchemy with most builds. Brutal. That probably explains the most recent negative reviews.

Don't worry, the developer has posted here that the patches might have even made the game easier than on release. It's all you.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

So I've had a bash at a Murderous Psychopath solo run & collected some evidence of the horrendous practical issues with the game:

The 'you can't attack this turn' bug:

The 'you can't use your consumable this turn' bug:

It's a bug because, oh, 'you can use your consumable this turn':

& loads of this kind of shit all the way through. Most of which you don't care about because you can beat things relatively 'easily'. When you reach your road block though & start reloading for different positionings then you start to really notice it.

This is as far as this dude can go.

I have shed loads of consumables left, three bombs, two strong liquid fires, one average liquid fire, loads of berserk potions, plenty of healing slaves, enough to use them for bleeding relief, and I even have one eagle eye stim left...

And yet this fight is still pretty much too much for this dude. I've killed the Emperor numerous times, but this is about as good as it gets:

Not bad at all from a roguelike sense I suppose, but from a cRPG sense it's just silly. I had quite a few stims left after defeating the Enforcer, but I had to use one each per construct fight, all reloads without using one always failed, but using them always won. Even if I had a few more stims here I'm not entirely sure I could have beaten it with this character, but even still, there's still the two fights left to go with nothing left in the bombing department except what's lootable from the Emperor's stash, which I can't remember if he even drops anything.

Also didn't even bother with the boss constructs or the four constructs on the way to the worm bridge as I sense I would gain nothing by using all my consumables on them.

Character stats are variable depending on armour and shield choices, but attack is between 126 and 141 depending on shield & defence is 115-134 depending on armour, 151 naked, basically as max as it can be with 10 in block & 10 STR & 8 in CON.

Character is:

10 STR
6 DEX
8 CON
10 PER
4 INT
2 CHA

One handed hammer block build.

I'm tempted to retry with just 9 in STR and PER, or even 8 in each & then max CON & maybe add to either DEX or INT & etc etc, but the game is so... tedious... with all the backtracking, bugs & other factors that replaying minor variations to characters is very demotivating, especially as you'll only ever know the details of a build & how well it copes in the last few fights, to which most of the combat with be timing consumables anyway.

 

[Parabalus]

10 STR
6 DEX
8 CON
10 PER
4 INT
2 CHA

One handed hammer block build.

I'm tempted to retry with just 9 in STR and PER, or even 8 in each & then max CON & maybe add to either DEX or INT & etc etc, but the game is so... tedious... with all the backtracking, bugs & other factors that replaying minor variations to characters is very demotivating, especially as you'll only ever know the details of a build & how well it copes in the last few fights, to which most of the combat with be timing consumables anyway.

I have a completed solo run with 10(9) 10 10 (8) 6 5 2 as Hammer/Block. Killing the meteorite constructs is worth it because you get 3 stat points+enough ore for a weapon, nothing else to really use your acid flasks on either way.

Bola the emperor to one-turn him, then block the net thrower with fire, kill opposite balcony, then the rest. I had stims left though, that's likely the difference.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I have a completed solo run with 10(9) 10 10 (8) 6 5 2 as Hammer/Block. Killing the meteorite constructs is worth it because you get 3 stat points+enough ore for a weapon, nothing else to really use your acid flasks on either way.

Bola the emperor to one-turn him, then block the net thrower with fire, kill opposite balcony, then the rest. I had stims left though, that's likely the difference.

I need at least one liquid fire to finish off the Emperor, he doesn't die with just three bombs, he always has like 3 or 4 HP left. Even if I first turn the Emperor then there's two guys with nets & you can't distract both of them with fire. Basically, I've tried all forms of 1st turning the Emperor.

Your build has 10 DEX rather than 10 PER, so the extra 2 AP + having a few more stims is likely the difference.

For the boss constructs I have no acid flasks left, I had to use those on the regular steel constructs (again, if I didn't I lost those fights).

You have also somehow managed to get up to at least 6 in crafting? Maybe more? So obviously having 5 in INT instead of 4 makes a huge difference. I tended to get 10 SP per fight, how many do you get with 5 INT? What were your stats at this point? I have:

3 Axe
8 Hammer
10 Block
3 CS
2 Crafting
7 Alchemy

With 4 left in the bank. To which the only 'spare' could arguably be 15 pts in CS & 15 pts in Axe, which still wouldn't get my crafting to even steel.

 

[Black Angel]

Bola the emperor to one-turn him, then block the net thrower with fire, kill opposite balcony, then the rest. I had stims left though, that's likely the difference.

Wait, there are bolas in DR? Or did you meant nets?

Through all of my playthrough in DR, never have I encountered a single bola.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Bola the emperor to one-turn him, then block the net thrower with fire, kill opposite balcony, then the rest. I had stims left though, that's likely the difference.

Wait, there are bolas in DR? Or did you meant nets?

Through all of my playthrough in DR, never have I encountered a single bola.

There's a few bolas.

 

[Parabalus]

I have a completed solo run with 10(9) 10 10 (8) 6 5 2 as Hammer/Block. Killing the meteorite constructs is worth it because you get 3 stat points+enough ore for a weapon, nothing else to really use your acid flasks on either way.

Bola the emperor to one-turn him, then block the net thrower with fire, kill opposite balcony, then the rest. I had stims left though, that's likely the difference.

I need at least one liquid fire to finish off the Emperor, he doesn't die with just three bombs, he always has like 3 or 4 HP left. Even if I first turn the Emperor then there's two guys with nets & you can't distract both of them with fire. Basically, I've tried all forms of 1st turning the Emperor.

Your build has 10 DEX rather than 10 PER, so the extra 2 AP + having a few more stims is likely the difference.

For the boss constructs I have no acid flasks left, I had to use those on the regular steel constructs (again, if I didn't I lost those fights).

You have also somehow managed to get up to at least 6 in crafting? Maybe more? So obviously having 5 in INT instead of 4 makes a huge difference. I tended to get 10 SP per fight, how many do you get with 5 INT? What were your stats at this point? I have:

3 Axe
8 Hammer
10 Block
3 CS
2 Crafting
7 Alchemy

With 4 left in the bank. To which the only 'spare' could arguably be 15 pts in CS & 15 pts in Axe, which still wouldn't get my crafting to even steel.

It was 10 crafting, 4 alchemy and I think 7/8 in Hammer/Block.

I didn't use bombs, bola:head and aimed:head twice, he dies.

Yeah, the extra AP is probably the difference.

Bola the emperor to one-turn him, then block the net thrower with fire, kill opposite balcony, then the rest. I had stims left though, that's likely the difference.

Wait, there are bolas in DR? Or did you meant nets?

Through all of my playthrough in DR, never have I encountered a single bola.

There's one before Democritus, in a locked chest. I think one is also in the chest after the Emperor.

 

[Black Angel]

There's one before Democritus, in a locked chest. I think one is also in the chest after the Emperor.

Damn, I really need to replay DR

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Do you go 10 crafting for all your solo runs?

 

[Parabalus]

Do you go 10 crafting for all your solo runs?

I did, but I think it's bad advice. I find the crafting too fun to ignore it.

You want enough to open the chests, and at that point I just can't resist.