Eating my own words: Geneforge 5 is pretty good

[Cloaked Figure]

[edit]

 

[Wyrmlord]

Why do you find the character creation shallow?

And I thought you did not like turn-based combat.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Yeah, the writing is always long-winded in his games. But I think that is part of 'doing everything yourself' - one guy simply isn't going to be good at every aspect of making a game.

What he gets right though, is the basic idea of what an rpg (of that style) should be. There's no great PS:T-level monologues, no Bloodlines-level character subtlety (I mean in terms of people being able to disagree about the nature of a character - there are plenty of folk who even sympathise with LaCroix in that game) etc. But the dialogue isn't Bethesda-awful, and it always achieves its purpose. Not the purpose of just pushing the plot forward, as most RPG developers seem to think, but the purpose of providing meaningful C+C and elevating the game above kill-the-foozles so that you're always aiming at some appropriate goal.

Actually, come to think of it, that's one of my favourite aspects of the Geneforge games. Aside from the 'I'll buy x shaper equipment/stuff/foozle-skins if you have them' quests, there are no pointless-bullshit quests. I don't recall ever being sent off to kill foozles 'just because', or to find someone's shoe. Yeah there's quests of similar STRUCTURES out there - liberate the trapped rebels, rescue the hostage etc, but he does a much better job than most at making them seem like they are relevant to your character's main goals. None of this 'I'm racing to save the world, but I'll stop for a few months to help old ladies cross the road.'

 

[Monocause]

The interface really is a complete mess. It's annoying that I can't just close a menu using a hotkey, EG: I press "G" to take things then "G" again to close the loot window instead of having to move my mouse and click "close.".

You can close all these windows with escape or enter, I don't remember which exactly.

I've heard lots of things about Spiderweb games but bashing the interface is something really new. All of his games have very clear and intuitive UI's.
Explain the "complete mess" statement :D

 

[Dragon]

Explain the "complete mess" statement :D

Having to close the inventory before being able to open the character sheet for instance. And I'd prefer a toggle mechanism too rather than having to move my hand all the way up to esc. Also, keyboard is frozen when it's not your turn, so you can't scroll with the keys, only with the mouse. And so on.

Still I bought it.

 

[Monocause]

Explain the "complete mess" statement :D

Having to close the inventory before being able to open the character sheet for instance. And I'd prefer a toggle mechanism too rather than having to move my hand all the way up to esc. Also, keyboard is frozen when it's not your turn, so you can't scroll with the keys, only with the mouse. And so on.

Still I bought it.

Well, if that's the case then I'd say that "complete mess" is a bit of an exaggeration. Truth be told, I never really noticed the thing you're talking about.
I agree that the interface could be better, but to say it's a "complete mess" is really unfair. Compare G5 to the X series, for example. I know these are two different genres, but where G5 could use some minor facelifting, a complete overhaul of the X series' interface could make it five times easier to use and more intuitive.

 

[Thrasher]

The interface is perfectly serviceable.
Ignore the whiners.

Also, if teh reading is teh hard, go back to Fail-out 3. Idiots.
I think the writing is better than 90% of the other crap.

 

[Jasede]

Oh yes, let's not whine about perfect Mr. Vogel so that he won't become aware of the serious interface issues his games have and keeps churning out clunky product after product. Dwarf Fortress is more comfortable to interface with.

 

[Monocause]

Oh yes, let's not whine about perfect Mr. Vogel so that he won't become aware of the serious interface issues his games have and keeps churning out clunky product after product. Dwarf Fortress is more comfortable to interface with.

You guys really mean that? Seriously, I've heard many complaints and complain about some things myself (fe. repetitiveness), but I've never noticed any interface problems and this is the first time I see someone complaining about the UI.

 

[Thrasher]

The whiners always find something stupid to cry about.

 

[Jasede]

Just being facetious. But he sure could make an effort. I guess he did.

Meh.

Go Eschalon Book 2 & AoD! ...and that Cthulhu game by Scott.

 

[Thrasher]

Then I suggest you don't read Lovecraft. Your loss.

 

[Dragon]

Well, if that's the case then I'd say that "complete mess" is a bit of an exaggeration.

Of course, after all: this. Is. Codeeeex !!!

Other things which came back to my mind :
- selling is a real chore, you have to click on the mini gold pieces icon on every object you want to sell, I couldn't find any shortcut like the usual right click or shift+click.
- the mouse management is weird (motion, speed, acceleration), it should use your desktop settings.
- during fights, spell and effect animations freeze your inputs.
- no map function, except when you are traveling.

 

[Thrasher]

Most of this appears inaccurate, and at worst, are minor inconveniences.

My mouse worked just fine.
I coulld always see the map.
There is a selling shortcut.

And guess what, it's turn-based. Duh.

 

[Monocause]

- no map function, except when you are traveling.

You're talking about the main map with all the areas? What do you need it for?

 

[SuicideBunny]

to know what exit to take to get someplace specific.

 

[Thrasher]

Many RPGs don't have that. But some do have map pins to add your own notes on where exits lead.

 

[Monocause]

Hey guys.

If I buy the full version now can I keep playing with the save I have now? Or will I have to start over again?

You won't technically "buy a full version". You'll purchase a registration code with which you'll register your game - it's shareware. Unless you wish to order a CD, in that case you'll just have to copy your savefiles to someplace safe, reinstall the game from the CD and copy them back. It'll work.

 

[Antagonist]

You won't technically "buy a full version". You'll purchase a registration code with which you'll register your game - it's shareware. Unless you wish to order a CD, in that case you'll just have to copy your savefiles to someplace safe, reinstall the game from the CD and copy them back. It'll work.

If you enter the registration code in the order sheet Vogel will send you a code to unlock the game usually within a work day independently of ordering a CD.

 

[coldcrow]

Agree with the OP. The settting plus story is actually good.

The minor annoyances with the UI are just legacy of the engine. As long as there is no fundamental rewrite they will be there. And I prefer him churning out new content instead of new engines.

The issues CF has with the writing boils down to a basic problem with rpgs/adventures these days: Do they involve the players imagination or serve precooked content?

Though I was quite sceptical at GF5 when I first booted it up it grew on me. The writing does a good job of describing the happenings while keeping you guessing and picturing the world. I would treat GF5 like a graphically enhanced roguelike with a really good story.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Is Cloaked FIgure, Exitium?

 

[Dragon]

Most of this appears inaccurate, and at worst, are minor inconveniences.

I'd say that that's you who are inaccurate and a minor inconvenience

My mouse worked just fine.

Playing on mac or PC ? With the default drivers or your brand specific driver (logitech for me) ? If you enjoy finely tuned mouse controls like me, then GF5 is a little stressful.

I coulld always see the map.

Nope, you could see the mini-map.

There is a selling shortcut.

I'd actually love to know this one !

And guess what, it's turn-based. Duh

Uh ? Looks like you didn't bother to play some more recent turn based games like silent storm or fantasy wars, mmm ? There's no reason to completely freeze the interface when it's not your turn. I should be able to select a new spell even when my character is currently suffering from a poison damage animation...

 

[Wyrmlord]

Oh yes, let's not whine about perfect Mr. Vogel so that he won't become aware of the serious interface issues his games have and keeps churning out clunky product after product. Dwarf Fortress is more comfortable to interface with.

You don't get it.

Yes, his PREVIOUS games have had interface issues.

Geneforge V has a revamped and a very functional interface, quite good not only for a Vogel game, but a really usable interface in its own right.

Geneforge V is the last Vogel game that should generate interface complaints.

 

[Jasede]

>_> I never played Geneforge 5. By now you should know that nothing I say about Vogel should ever be taken seriously- I just hate that oaf. Have you ever read an interview with him? He says the most retarded things.

 

[Monocause]

I just hate that oaf. Have you ever read an interview with him? He says the most retarded things.

Quote these 'retarded things'. I always thought that he has a simple and pragmatic outlook on gaming and RPGs in general which is nice considering the usual dev PR epic, gritty and immersive bullshit.