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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Messages
27
But the whole premise of Dark Souls has to do with a cyclical world, rebirth and so forth. It's more like a "dark" version of Buddhism than anything remotely connected to medieval Christianity.

There is no greater goal or escape from the cycle or role of self in it. It's more like Hinduism than Buddhism in that regard. What I meant by western spiritual influence was Humanism in particular, which is very present in Berserk and thus the parts of Dark souls that is influenced by it. There is of course certain convergence to it because of Humanist thought influencing a Westernized state like Japan before any of the modern media. Existence of Eastern spiritual framework is of course normal, much like how Western orientalist literature projected Christian framework to Orient, such as giving Muhammad a role like that of Christ and presenting him as a counter-part of Christ in Christian trinity.

Cycles were common in all types of religion and mythology, including Europe and Middle-east before Abrahamic religions (and Zoroastrianism). It's not particularly meaningful when you are doing fantasy absent of Absolute God. Indeed fantasy with an Absolute God is rarer than any fantasy with cyclical worlds or polytheistic religions, Tolkien notwithstanding who had very Catholic philosophy.

Point being, it is just alike all other Japanese fantasy that takes place in Western settings, it is "occidentalist" and thus derivative and reductive. Moreover it is derivative of a middle source, Berserk, which does this setting and spiritual concept much better with much more appropriate and coherent setting. Particularly the common mistake of doing Medieval European fantasy that has nothing to do with Medieval Europe and everything to do with Rennaisaince Europe, from arms and armor to thought process and philosophy, even architecture sometimes.

Sekiro ends up better as a setting because it is just doing something more authentic and coherent with the general ideas. It's also a more fun game because it's not built around invincibility frame rolling through slow swings of gigantic weapons, avoiding damage by going towards attacks. Which insults all sensibilities.

Unlike Berserk, Dark Souls doesn't deal with "mundane" politics and locations. Lordran is the Axis Mundi of the setting, existing outside normal space and time, and having a dreamlike quality to it. The mixing of architecture styles is obviously deliberate, from the Cambodian looking Lost Izalith, to the low fantasy high medieval Undead Burg, to the overly grandiose mix of gothic and renaissance in Anor Londo. Complaining about anachronism and occidentalism in this case is rather silly.

Sekiro also mixes different eras of japanese history, btw. Most of the game is inspired by the late Sengoku period, but the Fountainhead Palace is based on the much earlier Heian period, not only in architecture but also the clothing and armor.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
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Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
Unlike Berserk, Dark Souls doesn't deal with "mundane" politics and locations. Lordran is the Axis Mundi of the setting, existing outside normal space and time, and having a dreamlike quality to it. The mixing of architecture styles is obviously deliberate, from the Cambodian looking Lost Izalith, to the low fantasy high medieval Undead Burg, to the overly grandiose mix of gothic and renaissance in Anor Londo. Complaining about anachronism and occidentalism in this case is rather silly.

Sekiro also mixes different eras of japanese history, btw. Most of the game is inspired by the late Sengoku period, but the Fountainhead Palace is based on the much earlier Heian period, not only in architecture but also the clothing and armor.

It's hard to say it's deliberate when such things are present in all fantasy. Sure there are probably deliberate mix up elements but mashup between medieval and renaissance in self-declared "Medieval fantasy" is ubiquitous at this point. Sometimes settings that strictly call themselves medieval Europe even just take everything straight up from 16th century (so post-Rennaisaince).

Similarly in case of Sekiro's setting, mash-up between the 12th century and Sengoku period is very common in fantasy depicting Japan. Usually it defaults towards what can be called post-renaissance mashup (minus the gunpowder).
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,085
Location
Romania
Does anyone keep up with the data mining? Apparently there are 104 map fragments or so. Also the credits list was found, plenty of audio files, quests, models, fight animations and generally spoilers. Cool stuff.
 

perfectslumbers

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
1,202
Does anyone keep up with the data mining? Apparently there are 104 map fragments or so. Also the credits list was found, plenty of audio files, quests, models, fight animations and generally spoilers. Cool stuff.
Game sounds fucking huge gee. Guess that's what happens when they don't pump a game out in a year like most of their other games.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,825
Does anyone keep up with the data mining? Apparently there are 104 map fragments or so. Also the credits list was found, plenty of audio files, quests, models, fight animations and generally spoilers. Cool stuff.
Patches will make an appearance again
Elden Ring is another DSouls ripoff confirmed
 

perfectslumbers

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
1,202
They should bring back Bloodborne patches
4aJSqTl.jpg
 

Egosphere

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
1,926
Location
Hibernia
But is it as inspired as Dark Souls 1 was.

I understand it's a different game with a different style of story telling but you can make a different type of story and still have something as tired as DS3.

I guess what i want to know is whether DS3 was so stale because they were bored with the setting or whether they just lost it along the way.

I'll be a contrarian on the dex and say flat out - no, Sekiro did not challenge DS1 in the world building or story department. The story was a little confusing, but not enigmatic like Souls. The world ends up feeling pretty small, despite the surfeit of panoramic vistas, so that sense of journey that was the lynchpin of DS is absent. There are more cutscenes, more characters that have much to say etc. and overall it's pretty good, but it doesn't really linger with you. Then again, DS1 was lightning in a bottle. The closest they ever came to knocking it off its perch was Bloodborne.

Ds3 is weird in that it acknowledges 2's existence, but ends up retreading the old world of 1 so closely that it comes across as an unhinged attempt to throttle everything that wasnt Miyazaki approved.
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,927
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Honestly, From's world-building is so above the average that even the weaker ones are still good. DS1 and BB are probably the best and blow everything out of water, but Sekiro, DeS and even DS2/3 are very nice.

And I agree that DS1 world is more Buddhist than medieval. The western medieval aesthetics may be there because Berserk, but it's just superficial and doesn't really reflect what the world is about.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
Having played From Software games, that makes way too much sense, i would say gamers aren't as masochistic...but here we are talking about his games and Sony pratically paid for a remake to be PS5 exclusive as well as Bloodborne.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,912
From someone with the unpopular opinion that Sekiro is From Software's best game

Then again, like someone said, it's more of a Tenchu game and not really meant to be Dark Souls

It should've been a Tenchu game but wasn't, that's why it can't be FS's best game.

I had an absolute blast with it and will keep playing it but it's a weird hybrid, neither a pure, sharp Tenchu vision nor a full-blooded RPG. Stuck somewhere in between, in a no man's land of linear progression, anemic itemization, pointless NPC quests and superfluous, third-wheel features.
It's nothing like Tenchu (despite having started production as a Tenchu sequel) and isn't an RPG at all. I see Sekiro as a boss rush game with skippable popcorn enemies (that's why stealth exists in this game) and some (very) slight exploration.

As for the world, it's not as inspired as Dark Souls but it's got a lot of hidden details if you're inclined to find them.

It's worth playing for the bosses alone. Father Owl is the best boss From has ever done, and it's not even close.
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
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Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Inner? What does that mean?

Inner Kitty, Inner Mouth, Inner Butt?

"Inner Isshin (心中の一心, Shinjū no Isshin) is a Boss in Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. This Complete Inner Isshin Boss Guide gives you strategies on how to beat Inner Isshin easily, as well as tips, tricks and lore notes. This boss is a variation of Isshin, The Sword Saint (剣聖、葦名一心; Kensei Ashina Isshin; Sword Saint, Isshin Ashina) and is added to the Sekiro Free Update, Patch 1.05. This boss can only be encountered in the new feature, Gauntlets of Strength."
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,667
What the fuck is that 150 GB space requirement I've been seeing? That been confirmed? Sekiro was only 15 GB so that would be disappointing, I don't want to have to get a new SSD for this.
 
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perfectslumbers

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
1,202
What the fuck is that 150 GB space requirement I've been seeing? That been confirmed? Sekiro was only 15 GB so that would be a bit disappointing, I don't want to have to get a new SSD for this.
Xbox store says 50 gb. I'd be very mad if it was 150 gb since that would take me a week to download.
 

Ryzer

Arcane
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
8,180
Honestly, From's world-building is so above the average that even the weaker ones are still good.
No, many games have better world building...
DS2/3 are very nice.
Boring and samey crumbling castles, ugly Catacombs... It is as if Witcher 3 wasn't released.
Also the story from the world itself is almost non-existent.


Clearly there is nothing exceptional.
 

Ryzer

Arcane
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
8,180
On a more serious note, Elden Ring doesn't seem to have good world building. The world is empty and could have run on a ps3. Visually it's more than 5 years late to the standard of 2021. The story telling will be once again non-existent when they could have made some effort into it.
Bloodborne is still beautiful and always will be, not this game.
 

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