From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Ryzer]

Same clunky animations from Dark Souls 3,
Same combat from Dark Souls 3,
Same bosses from Dark Souls 3 except models are different,
Technically outdated on release,
Coupled with an empty Open-World,
And poor gameplay,
70$ and it will sell like hotcakes and people still make excuses for this game pretending it is okay.
Gamers deserve to be robbed at this point.

 

[Greek Anime God]

Same clunky animations from Dark Souls 3,
Same combat from Dark Souls 3,
Same bosses from Dark Souls 3 except models are different,
Technically outdated on release,
Coupled with an empty Open-World,
And poor gameplay,
70$ and it will sell like hotcakes and people still make excuses for this game pretending it is okay.
Gamers deserve to be robbed at this point.

Plebs like formula. Dark Souls 5, Assassin's Creed 12, Far Cry 6, Halo ∞. There is a reason they make these titles over and over again, it's because they sell and keep selling. If your formula sells then why change it? From Software are familiar with it, they have made a billion Armored Core games. This is one of the reasons video games can never be art.

 

[cvv]

This is one of the reasons video games can never be art.

If video games can't be art then why are they enriching my life?

Spoiler

 

[NJClaw]

This is one of the reasons video games can never be art.

Yeah, nothing formulaic about any other art field. Right. It's not like there are two hundred million identical paintings of Jesus Christ and his mother.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Plebs like formula. Dark Souls 5, Assassin's Creed 12, Far Cry 6, Halo ∞. There is a reason they make these titles over and over again, it's because they sell and keep selling. If your formula sells then why change it? From Software are familiar with it, they have made a billion Armored Core games. This is one of the reasons video games can never be art.

Meanwhile films and television

 

[Child of Malkav]

Same clunky animations from Dark Souls 3,
Same combat from Dark Souls 3,
Same bosses from Dark Souls 3 except models are different,
Technically outdated on release,
Coupled with an empty Open-World,
And poor gameplay,
70$ and it will sell like hotcakes and people still make excuses for this game pretending it is okay.
Gamers deserve to be robbed at this point.

Plebs like formula. Dark Souls 5, Assassin's Creed 12, Far Cry 6, Halo ∞. There is a reason they make these titles over and over again, it's because they sell and keep selling. If your formula sells then why change it? From Software are familiar with it, they have made a billion Armored Core games. This is one of the reasons video games can never be art.

Yeah, except soulsbornekiro games are actually good.

 

[Ryzer]

Yeah, except soulsbornekiro games are actually good.

They are the Call of Duty of RPGs.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Yeah, except soulsbornekiro games are actually good.

They are the Call of Duty of RPGs.

They're not RPGs.

 

[Greek Anime God]

Plebs like formula. Dark Souls 5, Assassin's Creed 12, Far Cry 6, Halo ∞. There is a reason they make these titles over and over again, it's because they sell and keep selling. If your formula sells then why change it? From Software are familiar with it, they have made a billion Armored Core games. This is one of the reasons video games can never be art.

Meanwhile films and television

I never said things were any different there, plebs likes formula, in film, in writing, it doesn't matter. Film has on rare occasions started to approach high art, but even that is disputable.

Yeah, except soulsbornekiro games are actually good.

They are the Call of Duty of RPGs.

Mass market genre trash that have sucked out all good that they came up with in Demon's Souls. Isn't that even worse? The original Call of Duty was nothing special, just another cinematic WWII shooter among many that got lucky and then turned into something ridiculous. In stark contrast From Soft took something that was slightly different and then milked it until we got where we are now. Would have been much better if Demon's Souls had remained an obscure game without spiritual sequels or clones.

Yeah, except soulsbornekiro games are actually good.

It is mainstream schlock that you like. Personally I find it soulless.

 

[Child of Malkav]

It is mainstream schlock that you like. Personally I find it soulless.

It's one of the very few mainstream games that I like. It still doesn't change the fact that it's good. They also innovated with Sekiro and brought back the jump between walls from Prince of Persia which means they played those games and their games are not cinematic trash filled with SJW-isms. Just one example. Seems like it's a company filled with gamers. For now. So I have a very difficult time understanding how these games are soulless.

 

[TedNugent]

Same clunky animations from Dark Souls 3,
Same combat from Dark Souls 3,
Same bosses from Dark Souls 3 except models are different,
Technically outdated on release,
Coupled with an empty Open-World,
And poor gameplay,
70$ and it will sell like hotcakes and people still make excuses for this game pretending it is okay.
Gamers deserve to be robbed at this point.

Plebs like formula. Dark Souls 5, Assassin's Creed 12, Far Cry 6, Halo ∞. There is a reason they make these titles over and over again, it's because they sell and keep selling. If your formula sells then why change it? From Software are familiar with it, they have made a billion Armored Core games. This is one of the reasons video games can never be art.

I'm not going to lie, I played through AC2 twice and completed the arena three times when I was a kid. Used to love that game. The new ones ruined it with their movement. L1/R1 strafe and the heavy gravity/limited boost was just clunky enough to work because you were always fighting the controls, making it feel like you were piloting a mech with real weight instead of an animu robot. It was actually challenging to dodge and stay on target/manage boost fuel.

I think I can, in a way, see the lineage to Dark Souls.

 

[Silentstorm]

Was Sekiro any good story/lore wise?

From someone with the unpopular opinion that Sekiro is From Software's best game, it depends, it does put the story more on sight in a way, you can still learn a lot through background, but dialogue gives a lot away, it helps that compared to other Soulsborne games, the main character actually has a past and relationship with some of the characters who will outright mention it and the character talks back at points, it's less subtle in a way.

Then again, like someone said, it's more of a Tenchu game and not really meant to be Dark Souls, to a point where the game punishes you if you dare play it like that, encouraging stealth a lot more, parries are absolutely vital, you can ressurect upon death where you died and you don't lose every bit of currency if you die for good and have to go back to a checkpoint and so forth.

And you can find texts or talk to NPC's or eavesdrop on enemies to get more plot, it gives more away than Dark Souls but then again...it's not really meant to be Dark Souls at all, many people just think that because the developer got known only for Soulsborne games and get punished when they treat the game as being 100% like one.

 

[Lyric Suite]

But is it as inspired as Dark Souls 1 was.

I understand it's a different game with a different style of story telling but you can make a different type of story and still have something as tired as DS3.

I guess what i want to know is whether DS3 was so stale because they were bored with the setting or whether they just lost it along the way.

 

[cvv]

From someone with the unpopular opinion that Sekiro is From Software's best game

Then again, like someone said, it's more of a Tenchu game and not really meant to be Dark Souls

It should've been a Tenchu game but wasn't, that's why it can't be FS's best game.

I had an absolute blast with it and will keep playing it but it's a weird hybrid, neither a pure, sharp Tenchu vision nor a full-blooded RPG. Stuck somewhere in between, in a no man's land of linear progression, anemic itemization, pointless NPC quests and superfluous, third-wheel features.

 

[NJClaw]

But is it as inspired as Dark Souls 1 was.

I understand it's a different game with a different style of story telling but you can make a different type of story and still have something as tired as DS3.

I guess what i want to know is whether DS3 was so stale because they were bored with the setting or whether they just lost it along the way.

I'd say that Sekiro isn't as inspired as DS1, but at the same time it isn't nearly as bland as DS3.

Concerning your main point, for DS2 and DS3 I blame "sequel fatigue" with conviction. Story and background lore are so much better both in Bloodborne and Sekiro. So far, they never failed to deliver in those departments with their new IPs, and I don't see why they would do that now with ER.

On an unrelated note, this shows how much it matters what your first entry in the series was. I don't necessarily disagree with considering DS1 "inspired", but it really isn't fair to label DS3 as stale and derivative while ignoring that half of DS1 is taken directly from Demon's Souls.

 

[Tyranicon]

But is it as inspired as Dark Souls 1 was.

I understand it's a different game with a different style of story telling but you can make a different type of story and still have something as tired as DS3.

I guess what i want to know is whether DS3 was so stale because they were bored with the setting or whether they just lost it along the way.

From's best games, imo, are when they work on something completely new. Dark Souls, Bloodborne, and Sekiro were excellent. Haven't played Demon's Souls.

 

[Ryzer]

If you play Demon's Souls, you played all of them, they aren't different. It is much like Call of Duty, the same game with a new coat of paint/ setting and a new gameplay.

 

[FreeKaner]

Sekiro is best game in this whole series. Dark souls only appears inspired because it is just blatantly ripping off one of the few inspired manga. Japanese also do terribly when they explore Western concepts of religion and philosophy, as well as music. Dark souls was a bit better again because of the aforementioned manga doing a decent job.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Dark Souls has nothing to do with western religion and philosophy though. It's actually very eastern.

 

[FreeKaner]

Dark Souls has nothing to do with western religion and philosophy though. It's actually very eastern.

It's a product of copying certain elements of Berserk, which were partially influenced by Miura's own interest in European history. As very clear from the fact he was doing "non-medieval" dark fantasy extremely ahead of anyone else. Compared to sword & sorcery and medieval fantasy which was popular when he started. He based a large part of its aesthetics in Renaissance era Italy and Germany, and philosophy in the humanist philosophy of Renaissance, which is abundantly clear. Of course being from Japan he also has Shinto-Buddhist elements in it as well. Humanism and will to power are very present in it.

Dark souls is a lot more regressed from this, defaulting to a mishmash of popular medieval fantasy tropes instead but Berserk influences (most likely inadvertently) left some Renaissance themes. It also has in common akin to most Japanese games a sort of "parody" vision of Europe, synthetic and projected. Japanese in this regard remind me a lot of 19th century orientalist popular media (novels, travelogues and such) which projected a lot into the Orient, trying to embody certain Middle-eastern & Indian religions and spiritualism but instead just reflecting and projecting the Western philosophies. Indeed from what I observe in general, modern Japanese people seem to use Western fantasy as sort of escapism from the daily grind and materialism that Japan became entrapped in much like how industrializing west used the orient to project their desires and to manifest certain spiritual and sensual elements they found lacking. It's sort of an "occidentalism".

 

[Lyric Suite]

But the whole premise of Dark Souls has to do with a cyclical world, rebirth and so forth. It's more like a "dark" version of Buddhism than anything remotely connected to medieval Christianity.

Aesthetically is very European sure, but that's only the surface.

 

[FreeKaner]

But the whole premise of Dark Souls has to do with a cyclical world, rebirth and so forth. It's more like a "dark" version of Buddhism than anything remotely connected to medieval Christianity.

There is no greater goal or escape from the cycle or role of self in it. It's more like Hinduism than Buddhism in that regard. What I meant by western spiritual influence was Humanism in particular, which is very present in Berserk and thus the parts of Dark souls that is influenced by it. There is of course certain convergence to it because of Humanist thought influencing a Westernized state like Japan before any of the modern media. Existence of Eastern spiritual framework is of course normal, much like how Western orientalist literature projected Christian framework to Orient, such as giving Muhammad a role like that of Christ and presenting him as a counter-part of Christ in Christian trinity.

Cycles were common in all types of religion and mythology, including Europe and Middle-east before Abrahamic religions (and Zoroastrianism). It's not particularly meaningful when you are doing fantasy absent of Absolute God. Indeed fantasy with an Absolute God is rarer than any fantasy with cyclical worlds or polytheistic religions, Tolkien notwithstanding who had very Catholic philosophy.

Point being, it is just alike all other Japanese fantasy that takes place in Western settings, it is "occidentalist" and thus derivative and reductive. Moreover it is derivative of a middle source, Berserk, which does this setting and spiritual concept much better with much more appropriate and coherent setting. Particularly the common mistake of doing Medieval European fantasy that has nothing to do with Medieval Europe and everything to do with Rennaisaince Europe, from arms and armor to thought process and philosophy, even architecture sometimes.

Sekiro ends up better as a setting because it is just doing something more authentic and coherent with the general ideas. It's also a more fun game because it's not built around invincibility frame rolling through slow swings of gigantic weapons, avoiding damage by going towards attacks. Which insults all sensibilities.

 

[Egosphere]

Dark Souls and Berserk have little in common, regardless of what Miyazaki says. No-one would even take the comparison seriously beyond a handful of superficial references if Miyazaki didn't repeat it a bunch of times.

Dark Souls is inspired because it manages to present a story of staggeringly epic proportions, yet one which will never obtrude upon the game if you do not care for it. It is like reading a fantasy story by Lord Dunsany, if he had wrote it after binging on the eddas, then tore up his work, shuffled the remnants and tossed it away. You'll pick out the snippets, until they slowly accrete into a superb tale.

 

[Tyranicon]

Dark Souls and Berserk have little in common, regardless of what Miyazaki says. No-one would even take the comparison seriously beyond a handful of superficial references if Miyazaki didn't repeat it a bunch of times.

Dark Souls is inspired because it manages to present a story of staggeringly epic proportions, yet one which will never obtrude upon the game if you do not care for it. It is like reading a fantasy story by Lord Dunsany, if he had wrote it after binging on the eddas, then tore up his work, shuffled the remnants and tossed it away. You'll pick out the snippets, until they slowly accrete into a superb tale.

Games that start off with a quality creation myth are unmistakably incline.

 

[FreeKaner]

Dark Souls and Berserk have little in common, regardless of what Miyazaki says. No-one would even take the comparison seriously beyond a handful of superficial references if Miyazaki didn't repeat it a bunch of times.

Dark Souls is inspired because it manages to present a story of staggeringly epic proportions, yet one which will never obtrude upon the game if you do not care for it. It is like reading a fantasy story by Lord Dunsany, if he had wrote it after binging on the eddas, then tore up his work, shuffled the remnants and tossed it away. You'll pick out the snippets, until they slowly accrete into a superb tale.

That's a method of storytelling. It used to be more common and it's arguably still is in genres that focus on combat and game mechanics rather than story still. That doesn't make it inspired, though there is a lot of uninspired competition. One part of it is because of a tendency to make games "cinematic", which a lot of game developers took to mean "narrative-focused and developer controlled storytelling". While some Japanese studios just took it to mean present a spectacle.