From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[mediocrepoet]

I looked it up and one of the first thread I saw is some guy complaining that katanas suck because they are "too slow". Low IQ doesn't even begin to describe those forums, I lost brain cells merely in the process of clicking to open the thread.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1245620/discussions/0/3278065083969818872/
This one? Pretty sure it's just low effort shitposting. Seems effective tho' since the thread is 12 pages long

95% sure that guy was straight flaming 24/7 based on his posts in other threads. Sadly hammered now, inshallah he died gloriously for all of our sins

Hard to know if there's irony involved or not though given choice cuts like Stop Nefs Bosses for Casuals or POEPLE WHO T BAG DURING DUELS. Primo grade forum dogshit. Can't even tell clearly if the author of the 'Stop Nefs' thread was consistenly shitposting or simply an outright moron.

I feel like he posted the perfect Codex reply: Nobody care wow

You see he posts something like this and I think I'm watching a master a work but then I see this and realise it might not be a bit.

Nobody care wow

See? It's versatile too.

I don't get too hung up on posters' mental retardation too much (or at least I try not to), especially in other places where I can't unload on them a bit. Also, since I think misinformation is cancerous, I try to avoid Steam discussions in general except to check in now and again in case there's notification of something interesting or notices of actual bugs/workarounds.

Anyway, just like there are no women on the internet, I think it's best to assume everyone on the internet is probably a complete moron and/or Russian bot until proven otherwise. YMMV

 

[HumanTotemPole]

I looked it up and one of the first thread I saw is some guy complaining that katanas suck because they are "too slow". Low IQ doesn't even begin to describe those forums, I lost brain cells merely in the process of clicking to open the thread.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1245620/discussions/0/3278065083969818872/
This one? Pretty sure it's just low effort shitposting. Seems effective tho' since the thread is 12 pages long

95% sure that guy was straight flaming 24/7 based on his posts in other threads. Sadly hammered now, inshallah he died gloriously for all of our sins

Hard to know if there's irony involved or not though given choice cuts like Stop Nefs Bosses for Casuals or POEPLE WHO T BAG DURING DUELS. Primo grade forum dogshit. Can't even tell clearly if the author of the 'Stop Nefs' thread was consistenly shitposting or simply an outright moron.

I feel like he posted the perfect Codex reply: Nobody care wow

You see he posts something like this and I think I'm watching a master a work but then I see this and realise it might not be a bit.

Nobody care wow

See? It's versatile too.

I don't get too hung up on posters' mental retardation too much (or at least I try not to), especially in other places where I can't unload on them a bit. Also, since I think misinformation is cancerous, I try to avoid Steam discussions in general except to check in now and again in case there's notification of something interesting or notices of actual bugs/workarounds.

Anyway, just like there are no women on the internet, I think it's best to assume everyone on the internet is probably a complete moron and/or Russian bot until proven otherwise. YMMV

Oh for sure it's just fun to speculate and enjoy the mass shit scrawling. Way way funnier than the subreddit.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

After playing it some, I have to say Elden Ring is a continuation of From Software moving in the wrong direction, imho. They seem to be caught in this trap, where instead of improving the combat for its own sake, or adding elements their games were always weak in (story, dialogue, peaceful exploration, etc), they are stuck in an infinite loop, racing against players who just play looking for challenge.

This video + newest comments were a fun time yesterday

Demon's Souls and Dark Souls were good games, maybe even great. Dark Souls 2 and onward were all generic pieces of craps made to pander to the intellectuals who claimed that unique boss fights were "bad" and that we needed more difficult bosses (aka, roll spam). It seems Elden Ring will continue the discourse of generic open world games with copy-paste content which will splooge all over the world map. Congrats casuals, you finally got what you wanted: another dying franchise catering to those who only care about pressing the dodge button repeatedly, a lack of innovation between games, and ignoring all criticisms by saying "git gud, durrrrr". Hope you enjoy your mediocrity, because it'll stay that way.

Lmao, who of you wrote this?

 

[Cowboy Moment]

DS2 is actually the least roll-spammy game in the franchise. Rolling costs a lot of stamina, the animation is relatively long, and doesn't have a lot of iframes without investment into ADP. I don't think there is ever a point in that game, DLCs included, where you need to roll more than once in rapid succession.

If anything, this particular form of decline started with Bloodborne. The casuls bought into that game's mantra of more aggression, and then, two games later, here we are.

 

[Lutte]

I kinda want this Matthew guy to make a video about Elden Ring, it would be hilarious since much of his inflammatories comments about DS2, which were often exaggerated IMHO, could be amplified tenfold and apply for real this time. Especially some of the ganks, that area in Mohg's palace with the triple invasion, crows and rot dogs tops just about anything From has ever done in that regard. There's something magical about being thrown off the horse by an invasion while you're in an area with those dogs and crows.

I wonder if there's anyone who has been crazy enough to clear this area of the map with a more "normal" setup. No high damage AoE art, no incantations, just a regular dude with a sword.

 

[Lutte]

DS2 is actually the least roll-spammy game in the franchise. Rolling costs a lot of stamina, the animation is relatively long, and doesn't have a lot of iframes without investment into ADP. I don't think there is ever a point in that game, DLCs included, where you need to roll more than once in rapid succession.

If anything, this particular form of decline started with Bloodborne. The casuls bought into that game's mantra of more aggression, and then, two games later, here we are.

Yeah, and it showed in which boss killed people the most :
Dark Souls 2 dev reveals which bosses people failed at most often • Eurogamer.net
Fume Knight. His moves aren't difficult to read, he's not very fast, but any mismanagement of stamina there is a death sentence because he's the most relentless of the DS2 roster in terms of constant applied pressure.
Alonne is harder to read, but he gives you more room to breath.

 

[Silva]

Really nice video.

Demon's Souls, Dark Souls and Bloodbourne were passion projects.

The rest of the games were a thing because Bandai wanted them to be a thing.

Agree, but I would include Elden Ring among the passion projects too, even if the final result is not on par with the other ones.

This is something I think that actually is declining the series due to either trivializing content or being what people think is the only/most viable way of progressing past a certain point due to the insane potential they have + moving away from more grounded combat to anime lazorzfest that started most noticeably in DS3's Ringed City expansion with stuff like the Frayed Blade.

I think some of the weapon arts are cool, especially the things that are special moves like a overhead slam or ground pound, etc. Even some of the magical effects for enchanted weapons can be appropriate and cool, like weapons that self buff or whatever, but I wish they'd leave most of the giant magic effects and aoes to proper casters and people who spec for it. As it is now, it's too much like DS1 pyromancy.

This. Animesque weapon arts are pushing the game away from it's realistic/sim combat roots, and ER reached a new low. See Bloodborne for an example of intricate, cool looking and still grounded weapon arts. Threaded Cane is the most basass looking weapon in Soulsdom and there's no glitz, rays or those silly "wind traces" effect on it.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Another problem is that while they took the design, speed, aggression from BB, they also didn't take the movement speed, dash, rally system to apply them to ER. The player is as slow as in DkS3, animation wise which was faster than in DkS2. Like someone on 4chan said: don't put BB bosses in DkS1/2 games, as the rules and mechanics are different enough to the detriment of the player.

 

[cvv]

And also because casuals complained too much about muh gimmick bosses.

Not sure you can blame casuals for the complaints about gimmick bosses. Afaik it's mostly the hardcore PvP types who consider anything that's not a 1v1 fight against a fast humanoid illegitimate.

 

[mediocrepoet]

This is something I think that actually is declining the series due to either trivializing content or being what people think is the only/most viable way of progressing past a certain point due to the insane potential they have + moving away from more grounded combat to anime lazorzfest that started most noticeably in DS3's Ringed City expansion with stuff like the Frayed Blade.

I think some of the weapon arts are cool, especially the things that are special moves like a overhead slam or ground pound, etc. Even some of the magical effects for enchanted weapons can be appropriate and cool, like weapons that self buff or whatever, but I wish they'd leave most of the giant magic effects and aoes to proper casters and people who spec for it. As it is now, it's too much like DS1 pyromancy.

This. Animesque weapon arts are pushing the game away from it's realistic/sim combat roots, and ER reached a new low. See Bloodborne for an example of intricate, cool looking and still grounded weapon arts. Threaded Cane is the most basass looking weapon in Soulsdom and there's no glitz, rays or those silly "wind traces" effect on it.

One of the other things that grinds my gears that's in ER, but I don't recall from earlier games, certainly not Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, or Dark Souls 2 anyway, is the fucking tracking. Enemy projectiles and charges will literally curve to find you behind cover. If you're in Stormveil Castle and fight the banished knights that do the storm charge, it'll actually curve around walls if you roll around a corner. It looks and feels retarded. They should've stuck with things that are more grounded and feel more intuitively realistic in the fairly non-controversial sense of "arrows fly straight, charges go straight, attacks wind up and then swing - they don't take a nap first."

Just to be clear, I don't mind certain homing missiles like certain spells. But normal arrows and charging is ridiculous.

 

[Old Hans]

missed almost all the stuff with Blaidd

this one confused me too & I was forced to check online. Then he vanishes again and I just threw my hands up

 

[cvv]

missed almost all the stuff with Blaidd

this one confused me too & I was forced to check online. Then he vanishes again and I just threw my hands up

I actually found Blaidd in Mistwood. But he was standing high above me on some ruins and howled. I couldn't talk to him, didn't know what to do and tabled it for later. Never found out how to contact him.

Only much, much later I read on the wiki you have to talk to Kalé - the merchant I visited once, bought all his stock and never ever planned to go back to him.

 

[HumanTotemPole]

Saw this floating around:

Don't agree with the guy's assessment of ER's overall quality but I'm sympathetic to the idea that the switch to an open world is a sign of creative exhaustion on From's part. ER can be very derivative of its predecessors. The open world is the biggest change. The use of a big name fantasy author to get more eyes on the product while telling a rather familiar story is potentially suggestive too.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

If anything, this particular form of decline started with Bloodborne.

If people could stop parroting this talking point it would be great. BB increase in enemy attack speed was balanced by changes in player animation and speed. Everything was designed to push for a more agressive gameplay.

The rot started with DS3 where some 200IQ genius wanted to port Bloodborne into Dark Souls without realizing why BB combat worked. And also because casuals complained too much about muh gimmick bosses.

Parroting what talking point? Bro, you just agreed with me. Bloodborne was where the idea that iframe dodging through attacks is the only legitimate way to play was first properly realized. DS3 took it further, yes, but the idea that DS3 and Elden Ring enemy and boss design would've been fine with Bloodborne mechanics is retarded as well. The mechanics aren't that different to begin with. Really, the primary difference is in how overpowered and fast healing is in BB, the rest isn't very substantial.

And besides, Bloodborne combat in general was also a mess, only rescued by the difficulty being fairly tame by the standards of subsequent games. If Bloodborne endgame was full of Gascoigne and Logarius equivalents, we'd have the same complaints about it as we currently have about Elden Ring.

Don't agree with the guy's assessment of ER's overall quality but I'm sympathetic to the idea that the switch to an open world is a sign of creative exhaustion on From's part. The use of a big name fantasy author to get more eyes on the product while telling a rather similar story to before is potentially suggestive too. ER can be very derivative of its predecessors. The open world is the biggest change.

Eh, DS3 was much worse. At least Elden Ring does some things differently.

 

[Anonona]

Bloodborne was where the idea that iframe dodging through attacks is the only legitimate way to play was first properly realized.

Not really. If you went Dex, sure, but you have weapons that grant you hyper-armor, weapons whose switch mode had long reach, arcane items, powerful ranged parries among other things. Certain weapons actually rewarded you for using proper spacing and charged attacks, which often time also granted you hyperarmor. STR weapons are pretty much king of this style, and thanks to the health recovery mechanic it was pretty valid if you build your character around that (using the proper great runes, high STR to make charged attacks better). Also worth mentioning weapons like the Switch-axe, its reach allowing you to just stay out of the enemy's attack range and punish it. BB mechanics were pretty well tuned for the style of game they were going for, and big part of that was the excellent design when it came to the weapons and their move set.

 

[HumanTotemPole]

Eh, DS3 was much worse. At least Elden Ring does some things differently.

I'm willing to cut DS3 a bit more slack as it is very much the end of a series and story, albeit cobbled together from the b-sides of its more illustrious forebears. I think I prefer DS3's bosses and concise length but I'd need to go back and play it again to confirm or refute that opinion.

 

[cvv]

Don't agree with the guy's assessment of ER's overall quality but I'm sympathetic to the idea that the switch to an open world is a sign of creative exhaustion on From's part.

It's also possible FS simply does what their corporate owner wants. Remember, Miyazaki is still just an employee, he doesn't call the major shots. He said 10 years ago he didn't want to make another Dark Souls game....and that was when DS1 came out. And now we're here, with 5 more FromSoft Souls-likes and a slew of DLCs.

My guess is after the galactic success of ER we'll get another open-world Souls-like but without Miyazaki. He'll delegate it to some B-team like DS2 or DS3 and work on something new.

Honestly, given his distaste to doing the same thing over and over again, I suspect he didn't really work on ER directly, he just supervised it from afar, just like he did with DS2 and DS3, and he's cooking something different in his private skunkworks.

 

[Sunri]

Eh, DS3 was much worse. At least Elden Ring does some things differently.

I'm willing to cut DS3 a bit more slack as it is very much the end of a series and story, albeit cobbled together from the b-sides of its more illustrious forebears. I think I prefer DS3's bosses and concise length but I'd need to go back and play it again to confirm or refute that opinion.

What bosses you liked more in ds3? I had this discussion with someone today and I can't recall any cool bosses in ds III expect Gundyr and maybe NK (Base game, no dlc)

 

[HumanTotemPole]

Eh, DS3 was much worse. At least Elden Ring does some things differently.

I'm willing to cut DS3 a bit more slack as it is very much the end of a series and story, albeit cobbled together from the b-sides of its more illustrious forebears. I think I prefer DS3's bosses and concise length but I'd need to go back and play it again to confirm or refute that opinion.

What bosses you liked more in ds3? I had this discussion with someone today and I can't recall any cool bosses in ds III expect Gundyr and maybe NK (Base game, no dlc)

It's not so much a 'cool' thing, certainly the visual presentation of the major bosses I fought in ER is more spectacular than that of DS3. It's how they interact mechanically with the player and the player's abilities. They felt slightly less relentlessly gamified if that makes sense?

Worth bearing in mind I've not fought all of the major ER bosses yet and my recall of DS3 is pretty distant. My opinion may change over time.

It's also possible FS simply does what their corporate owner wants. Remember, Miyazaki is still just an employee, he doesn't call the major shots. He said 10 years ago he didn't want to make another Dark Souls game....and that was when DS1 came out. And now we're here, with 5 more FromSoft Souls-likes and a slew of DLCs.

My guess is after the galactic success of ER we'll get another open-world Souls-like but without Miyazaki. He'll delegate it to some B-team like DS2 or DS3 and work on something new.

Honestly, given his distaste to doing the same thing over and over again, I suspect he didn't really work on ER directly, he just supervised it from afar, just like he did with DS2 and DS3, and he's cooking something different in his private skunkworks.

I hope that's the case. A supposed B-team turned out something pretty great in DS2 and I can appreciate Sekiro as an achievement despite it leaving me cold.

 

[Silva]

Yeah, stop criticizing Bloodborne. It's a spin-off like Sekiro, and it works beautifully as that.

feel like a broken record repeating this, but in principle, the difficulty problem is easy to solve. Make the game easier, but punish careless play more harshly. Individual enemies or encounters don't need to be difficult, they just need to eat limited resources if you handle them suboptimally. The traditional dungeon-crawler approach, in essence.

Yep, agreed. Earlier Sous were about attrition and resource management. Basically D&D. That's why making players respawn far from bosses was important, as it meant the player would need to chug an estus or lose some HP before facing the boss again (or risk falling from some ledge if opting to run past enemies). Which also meant the same boss could be made in a sane way (and not the spamming machines we see in ER).

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Bloodborne was where the idea that iframe dodging through attacks is the only legitimate way to play was first properly realized.

Not really. If you went Dex, sure, but you have weapons that grant you hyper-armor, weapons whose switch mode had long reach, arcane items, powerful ranged parries among other things. Certain weapons actually rewarded you for using proper spacing and charged attacks, which often time also granted you hyperarmor. STR weapons are pretty much king of this style, and thanks to the health recovery mechanic it was pretty valid if you build your character around that (using the proper great runes, high STR to make charged attacks better). Also worth mentioning weapons like the Switch-axe, its reach allowing you to just stay out of the enemy's attack range and punish it. BB mechanics were pretty well tuned for the style of game they were going for, and big part of that was the excellent design when it came to the weapons and their move set.

Yes, really. I mean, technically, you could instead parry anything that can be parried, but that's true of Elden Ring just as well. But you're not going to beat, say, Ludwig without iframing through some of his attacks.

A lot of BB's enemy attack could be just outspaced. Also, some bosses were easier to roll rather than quickstep. You lost shields but gained more mobility.

You may be shocked to learn that it's possible to outspace attacks in literally every game in this series, ER included. The incidence rate of enemies with attacks that won't let you do this increases with each game, though.

DS3 has BB mechanics for bosses and would've been fine with BB mechanics for the player. ER is just straight up anime. There is no equivalency. Healing potency doesn't even factor in this. Did you even play BB? Honest question.

Brother, DS3 was fine with the mechanics it had, and the annoying enemies and bosses would've been just as annoying with BB mechanics, just a bit easier. Conversely, the magical BB mechanics wouldn't make any of Malenia's bullshit any less dumb. The difference isn't big enough, it's the same combat system with some tweaks. Though incidentally, healing speed from BB would've made the biggest difference in ER, though not really for the better imo.

I swear, what is it about Bloodborne that makes people turn off their brains when discussing it? It's possible to criticize bad design in any other Souls game without issue, but with BB you immediately get some kind of ridiculous cult who will make absolutely insane claims, like the guy above who tried to convince me dodging through attacks isn't the intended way to play the game.

 

[Reever]

What bosses you liked more in ds3? I had this discussion with someone today and I can't recall any cool bosses in ds III expect Gundyr and maybe NK (Base game, no dlc)

I had this discussion too a few days ago with someone. My opinion is that ds3 has a lot of boring but bearable bosses but Elden Ring has a lot of absolutely garbage bosses and it's only aggravated by the fact that they're repeated so damn much. Also way too many encounters where you have two bosses that are clearly not designed to be fought together.

It also doesn't help that Souls games are somewhat linear (DS3 in particular) and the designers have a basic idea what the player's level is going to be while Elden Ring is completely random. For me at least, I felt like for a lot of the bossfights I was either too overleveled or underleveled. As for bosses that I think are really cool I'd add Sulyvahn, Lothric and Dancer on top of the two already mentioned.

Also looking at the wiki to see the bosses in ER I found this comment

 

[Multidirectional]

I finally did it! At level 56!

Spoiler

I figured out how to use the pouch!

 

[Silva]

Bloodborne was where the idea that iframe dodging through attacks is the only legitimate way to play was first properly realized.

Not really. If you went Dex, sure, but you have weapons that grant you hyper-armor, weapons whose switch mode had long reach, arcane items, powerful ranged parries among other things. Certain weapons actually rewarded you for using proper spacing and charged attacks, which often time also granted you hyperarmor. STR weapons are pretty much king of this style, and thanks to the health recovery mechanic it was pretty valid if you build your character around that (using the proper great runes, high STR to make charged attacks better). Also worth mentioning weapons like the Switch-axe, its reach allowing you to just stay out of the enemy's attack range and punish it. BB mechanics were pretty well tuned for the style of game they were going for, and big part of that was the excellent design when it came to the weapons and their move set.

Yes. Bloodborne weapons movesets actually mattered: reach, speed, area effect, poise break potential, parry potential, etc. The effects were subtle like serrated, blunt, bleeding, etc. Combat was based on a system of simple, fundamental options that worked from the lowly mook to the highest boss. Which was the DS1 and DS2 formula anyway, only in faster and more attack-oriented context.

Here? It went full KAMEHAMEHA. The basics don't matter much. What matters is how broken a weapon art is. Speaking of, can we agree "Weapon Arts" are pure decline and should be purged from the formula altogether for the next installments?

 

[Silva]

What bosses you liked more in ds3? I had this discussion with someone today and I can't recall any cool bosses in ds III expect Gundyr and maybe NK (Base game, no dlc)

Gundyr, Dancer of the Boreal Valley, Lothric Twin Princes, Lady Elfriede, and Gael the Murderhobo were great bosses IMO.

P.S: my top 5 of the whole Soulsdom would probably be Isshin, Father Owl, Ludwig, Elfriede and Ornstein & Smough.