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From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,822
Use normal attacks, blocks, rolls etc? You'll often find an enemy has a reasonable (and occasionally unreasonable) set of tools to counter standard actions and that your own damage output is ok to mediocre.

Pull that magic left trigger though? Disgustingly easy.
I completely agree. I think weapon arts are cool but there are several in this game that require no skill at all to win fights with and that's not a good thing at all. The low damage of normal attacks compared to WAs and the high damage output of enemies means that if you're not using either status effects of a strong WA you're seriously outgunned and are facing a long fight where a couple mistakes can lead to death and restarting (which is great sometimes). I love this game but the balance is way off.

I ended up banning myself from even picking up the spiritcalling bell and certain ashes of war that I knew could power through fights without me having to learn them. I basically have to balance the game for myself with only my conscience as a guide. Not ideal. Things like Lion's Claw just shouldn't be in the game. You don't need to time it, you don't need to judge distance. It just hyper armors through literally any attack so if you have a bunch of red flasks and enough vigor to not get one shout you can beat any foe just with L2. Flame of the Redmanes is ridiculous. If I can use it to kill dragons at level 1 with a +0 dagger and have it be significantly easier than fighting them normally with a levelled character then that's a serious balance issue (no damage because it never even got to attack). I don't even pick those up now. The game is better without them.

I do like ashes though. You can make cool builds with them and its not like I don't want a strong character. I just want to be the one playing. I like to drive manual. Royal Knight's Resolve, Chilling Mist, Square Off, Unsheath. Now those are some OP ashes that are actually fun to use. They demolish foes but at least you need to do them in a punish window.
I actually found out today that I've missed getting the spirit bell for free :lol:

However as soon as I learned from youtube about spirit summons being there, in addition to stuff like "equippable specials that are supposed to work with a variety of weapon types" aka Weapon Arts, my first reaction was "they can't have all these alternative styles in and still keep it balanced".

Still, I can live with that. I'll just play less optimal and not read too much on how to optimize. Average enjoyer and all that. :)
You can optimize your character and still have a fun, challenging experience with this game. Learning how the systems work and making strong, interesting builds is what kept me playing for so long.

I'd just avoid summoning and using abilities that don't require player skill unless this is your first time playing a souls game. You won't really break this game by having a good build, especially not the late game.

You'll break it by using flame of the redmanes, transient moonlight, corpse piler, lion's claw, summons, rotten breath, golden scarab talisman and to a lesser extent shields. Those are all the things I ban in even my casual playthroughs. There's nothing wrong with being strong. If you're not tanky and a hard hitter the late game has things that will push your shit in (unless you're really good at souls which I'm not).
 

DemonKing

Arcane
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Messages
5,241
Also, my gamepad skills are abysmal.
Go sorcery then, you'll thank me later.
Just be aware that in order to respec. your character you'll have to beat a boss that has heavy sorcery resistance. I ended up having to beat her down with a short sword as my sorceries were basically useless.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
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AwesomeButton

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Bloodeyes

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I've tried multiple sorcerors, never stuck with one all the way. I think they're overrated for PVE. Ranged damage isn't as useful as you'd think. Things tend to get in your face a lot so unless you like doing a lot of running you're going to mostly melee anyway. Melee is just a better strat too TBH. Ashes do a lot more damage than spells and cost less FP. Lower time to kill means you deal with groups better and have shorter fights against bosses, which means you're less likely to fuck everything up and die. Less FP usage means less mind (so more points to spend on more useful things like vigor, equip load or AR) and fewer blue flasks (so more red flasks). Sorcery is perfectly viable if that's the archetype you enjoy playing. Its fine. But the "sorcery is easy mode" meme is utter horseshit perpetuated by casuals. Its both untrue and kind of disrespectful to people who play sorcs. Its not easier at all.

The build that I've found most effective in the most situations is a high vigor strength build with 12 faith and the minimum endurance needed to mid roll with your heaviest weapon and chosen armor. 12 faith gives all the fortification body buffs, heal which is useful against a certain enemy (but shit for healing), bestial vitality which spins out your red flasks in long dungeons and flame cleanse me which cures poison and scarlet rot. You can also put on two fingers heirloom and gain access to the flame of frenzy (good aoe fire damage, excellent in PVP against cautious opponents and for resetting frostbite procs while causing madness procs) and lightning spear which comes out quick, deals extra damage when in water or when its raining and certain cunty enemies are weak to it. Ranged damage isn't that important but in many situations its nice to have and casting this with clawmark seal gives you a solid ranged option.

For melee this build gets access to some great damage types and playstyles. Want to be light with a thrusting sword or dual curved swords? You have strength preferring weapons that do that . Want to bonk? Great mace or great stars. Straight swords and great swords? You've got the Iron Greatsword and the Broadsword. Heavy thrusting sword? Yep, those do great with heavy. You don't need to respec to change your "build". Just swap weapon and talismans. And of course there's my personal favorite, the Guts Greatsword. Basically, you've got the highest AR examples of any smithing stone weapon type available to you (except katanas and maybe spears I don't know). Anything with "Iron" in the name eats strength and shits out damage.

You also get fire scaling which is kryptonite to certain enemies and stronger than heavy in the early game. You get cold cold scaling which causes frostbite, a solid, easy to apply status when used on a big weapon or 2 little weapons that doesn't hurt your base damage much at all. Late game when resistances get higher, you can switch to heavy so you don't have split damage (lower total AR, more actual damage). There's also physical striking damage from greathammers. Very, very handy to have. You're just so versatile and powerful at whatever you choose to do. You can hyper armor trade with a colossal or play nimble with dual straight swords. You're a master of all trades. You can dominate every situation in PVE and PVP with one build. Just change gear as needed, focus your main weapon for upgrades and keep all your alternates at bell bearing level.

Playing a sorc is like this:

"Oh fuck a gargoyle. I wish I had a greathammer right now."
"Oh fuck an abductor virgin. I wish I had lightning damage right now."
"Oh great more giant hands. I wish my weapon dealt fire damage. Time to put on a talisman and change my physick tear again so I can use fire scaling. I swear I'm spending more time imitating a STR build than actually playing my build."
" Oh fuck the boss deals massive fire/lightning/holy or magic damgage. I wish I had a fortification buff to negate 40% of that damage"
"Oh fuck the enemy is resistant to magic. Well that negates all my best abilities and most of my weapon damage."
"Oh shit I'm poisoned/rotted again. Time to eat a bolus. I'd better do some farming later or I'll run out or preserving boluses. Man the crafting is tedious, why can't I just buy these?"
"Oh fuck a Royal Revenant. I guess I'll just d... yep I'm dead."
"Man I'm so bored going bing bong all day long. I want to actually fight something. I paid good money for this game."

I've never wanted for anything as a STR/FTH build. Int doesn't give you the best tool for any situation. Its viable and the weapons are cool but easy mode it is not.
 
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Anonona

Learned
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
371
I don't know, I saw my friend one-shot like 90% percent of the bosses with Comet Azur, as in literally entering the boss' room, gulping down the physick flask with the tears that give you infinite FP, and killing the boss before it could even attack. There were exceptions like Melina, but he used ambush shard which was surprisingly damaging, she wouldn't dodge at all, and then once the second phase starts and she does her lengthy dive attack, it was Comet Azur time again, one shooting her. Any boss resilient to magic was dealt instead with Rock Sling. The only ones that gave issue were the last boss, which forced him to respect to a STR build. And I will argue that he didn't play his character at its full potential, he rarely used Terra Magica and/or the Moon spells nor inflicted frostbite consistently, which would had contributed greatly to increasing his damage.

I agree that maybe magic isn't as good with groups of regular enemies, but there are a few spells that truly seem to trivialize most of the bosses.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,822
I don't know, I saw my friend one-shot like 90% percent of the bosses with Comet Azur, as in literally entering the boss' room, gulping down the physick flask with the tears that give you infinite FP, and killing the boss before it could even attack. There were exceptions like Melina, but he used ambush shard which was surprisingly damaging, she wouldn't dodge at all, and then once the second phase starts and she does her lengthy dive attack, it was Comet Azur time again, one shooting her. Any boss resilient to magic was dealt instead with Rock Sling. The only ones that gave issue were the last boss, which forced him to respect to a STR build. And I will argue that he didn't play his character at its full potential, he rarely used Terra Magica and/or the Moon spells nor inflicted frostbite consistently, which would had contributed greatly to increasing his damage.

I agree that maybe magic isn't as good with groups of regular enemies, but there are a few spells that truly seem to trivialize most of the bosses.
I mean yes, comet Azur is famously broken. I've never used it because I banned myself from doing that before I even tried it. Even as a wizard I just didn't want to play like that. My judgement of sorcery does presume (perhaps incorrectly) that one actually wants to play the game. Rock sling is ok. I used it on Rennala with my sorcs.

If what one wants to do is cheese bosses though (pretty lame but if one wants to), ashes are still equally broken as comet Azur. A level 1 wretch with a +0 dagger with flame of the Redmanes can stance break anything. A second dagger with chilling mist will frostbite it when its down. It can then be stancebroken again (before recovering enough to attack) and the frostbite resets from the fire. Your character can be a lump and you can no-hit bosses without any effort. Shit like that shouldn't be in the game.

Rotten breath, while admittedly not as OP as Azur is situationally, is also a win button and is usable in a wider variety of situations. Combining the two, one can stance break with redmanes then full cast rotten breath in complete safety while they're down, then hit with frostbite on the next stance break. Works equally well on bosses and regular enemies, no once per rest physick required. Just a 17 in mind and a few blue flasks. If you want to cheese you can cheese the entire game like that, not just the bosses.

Edit: Case in point. I just killed the Godskin Apostle with Redmanes at level 25 because I wanted the get in my build early and it uses the Godslayer's Greatsword. I guess I'm a hypocrite for talking about cheesing bosses but the sword is amazing and I have no regrets.
 
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lametta

Educated
Joined
Feb 4, 2021
Messages
77
ENB struggled because he was forcing a dagger run and he constantly tests what weird stuff you can do with the mechanics.
not to mention that he would just deactivate the gui not seeing hp bars and chugging estus by feel and wasting lot of estus/hp...
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,822
I spent the day cutting a swathe through Limgrave with the Godslayer's greatsword. For a change I stopped taking the game so seriously and trying to improve my skills and got intentionally OP as early as I could. Radagon's Soreseal + two fingers Heirloom on a vagabond got me the sword at level 25. Now I've killed everying in the greater Limgrave area and finally got around to killing Godrick at around level 55.

I'm soft swapping between Godslayer's Greatsword and Death's Poker, proccing, resetting and just generally ash spamming. I've never used the Godslayer's before and it is exceptional. Both the ash and the normal moveset are fantastic. It staggers like a colossal, swings like a greathammer, and its ash gets hyper armor and does good damage. What's not to like?

I also spent a rather tedious hour grinding out the armor set from the blackflame monk. So my character looks really cool too. Its nice to be going a casual playthrough again. I like my restricted level get good challenges, but one can get burned out on them.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
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hzbvUp6.png
 

cruel

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
586
But what exactly is it you don't like that much? Most people are pretty happy with this game based on what I see. If the open world is boring for you (valid complaint), you may focus on important stuff only and do pretty OK. Legacy dungeons in this game are one of the best From has created, and even if you hate the game, it's a big waste to not experience Stormveil Castle, Leyndell Sewers or Volcano Manor. Some of the bosses are also really worth experiencing.
If the game annoys you for no obvious reason, sometimes switching characters does wonders. Maybe current play style is just not a good fit?

Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk
 

fork

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
2,710
The open world is beyond boring, but you have to explore it all in order to find some key items (depending on your build), most 'legacy dungeons' are shit (none of them come even close to Blighttown, Sen's or some other favourites), and even the good ones with tons of secrets, like Stormveil Castle, are just boring, everything is epic, but all of it lacks density, atmosphere. The ambience is annoying. The side bosses are utterly forgettable and boring, caves, tunnels, catacombs, evergaols, churches, minor erdtrees repetitive, and many of the main bosses are unfair.
Not to mention how forgettable the NPCs and overall story are.

They just lost their way. Where I'd have described Fromsoft titles before as 'quality over quantity' and 'more than the sum of their parts', I'd describe Elden Ring as 'style over substance'.
 
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Bloodeyes

Arcane
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Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,822
The Godslayer's greatsword is a really mixed bag. Its ash is quite powerful and its moveset is excellent. But to balance that out its normal attack damage is mediocre and the hyper armor on the ash isn't nearly what I thought it was. So its balanced. Op as fuck, but only situationally useful.

I'm still enjoying the weapon though. I'm going to stick with it long enough to see how it performs in the late game, after I max it out and give it some dex to work with. Right now its somber 5 and just at requirements on all stats (with the help of a soreseal and heirloom charm, this is a demanding weapon to build for). It's decent but not great on a mid level character. S tier style, moveset and ash damage potential, if you can land the whole thing. Rennala didn't last very long.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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With my maxed out strength I got a bit bored in terms of damage output.

So I said fuck it and slapped blood enhancement on my Giant Crusher with Lions Claw. And now I'm really brutalized enemies. Getting over 1500 Attack Rating is just fucking nuts
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
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Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,822
With my maxed out strength I got a bit bored in terms of damage output.

So I said fuck it and slapped blood enhancement on my Giant Crusher with Lions Claw. And now I'm really brutalized enemies. Getting over 1500 Attack Rating is just fucking nuts
Do you mean 1500 damage? Because I was so amazed checked and the AR on a 2 handed blood giant crusher is 986. That's still very good. But if you want to see really big damage numbers you can push it further than that. Claw talisman + ritual sword talisman. Make giant crusher heavy. Two hand it. Wear raptor's black feathers. Put ash of war royal knight's resolve on the GC. Cast golden vow and FGMS before the fight.

This is the most damage I have ever done in a single hit, other than riposte damage. I was getting north of 3k with 80 STR on the Guts greatsword (less AR than giant crusher) and I didn't have ritual sword. But you're in NG+ so you can take it even further. You can powerstance giant crushers and buff both with RKR if you're quick enough.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Giant Crusher with bleed, blood talisman (+% with bleed), flame grant me str, golden vow, 99 str, 48 arcane (40 base plus the mimic helm).

2 hand it.

By the second hit I've already made most opponents bleed. Additionally I've already demolished their fucking poise using lions claw. I'm gonna try this combo against Malenia.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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That's fucking amazing.

Edit: hey does the Black Blade incantation work on the Elden Beast? I know it's Holy damage, and the beast basically blocks 80% of that. But I figure it might be a good opener to sap like 10% of his hp immediately.

Though with the proper physical setup you can do that in a few moves anyway. The biggest pain the the Beast was always just how he moves across the screen constantly away from you.
 
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AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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Funny thing, I'm playing "le open world game", then when I enter a dungeon or cave, everything is so bare, linear and cookie cutter that it's like a game from the late 1990s.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
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That's fucking amazing.

Edit: hey does the Black Blade incantation work on the Elden Beast? I know it's Holy damage, and the beast basically blocks 80% of that. But I figure it might be a good opener to sap like 10% of his hp immediately.

Though with the proper physical setup you can do that in a few moves anyway. The biggest pain the the Beast was always just how he moves across the screen constantly away from you.
I've never tried the incant but Black Knife Tiche melts Elden Beast. So both the debuff and lingering percentage based damage should work. Apparently you can stack the incant with the blade of death weapon art or destined death but not both.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
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Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,822
This is a video from the streamed playthrough I'm doing at the moment. I'm sharing it here because I figure not many people will watch that (I'm going to continue it anyway) but this is a cool, standalone story. It shows the process of beating a tough boss, from completely sucking and getting demolished, to experimenting with different strats, to practice and ultimately success.

I try a few quite different strats here. It was quite the rollercoaster and I sure didn't anticipate ever using the strat I did use to ultimately win. It just sort of emerged during the fight as the obvious choice, and now it's part of that character's permanent arsenal.

I've linked the start of the fight, no need to watch from the beginning. Its just me doing a respec and platforming down the tower:

 

Aeschylus

Swindler
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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
Playing a sorc is like this:

"Oh fuck a gargoyle. I wish I had a greathammer right now."
"Oh fuck an abductor virgin. I wish I had lightning damage right now."
"Oh great more giant hands. I wish my weapon dealt fire damage. Time to put on a talisman and change my physick tear again so I can use fire scaling. I swear I'm spending more time imitating a STR build than actually playing my build."
" Oh fuck the boss deals massive fire/lightning/holy or magic damgage. I wish I had a fortification buff to negate 40% of that damage"
"Oh fuck the enemy is resistant to magic. Well that negates all my best abilities and most of my weapon damage."
"Oh shit I'm poisoned/rotted again. Time to eat a bolus. I'd better do some farming later or I'll run out or preserving boluses. Man the crafting is tedious, why can't I just buy these?"
"Oh fuck a Royal Revenant. I guess I'll just d... yep I'm dead."
"Man I'm so bored going bing bong all day long. I want to actually fight something. I paid good money for this game."
I mean, with 12 faith many of those complaints are removed. Royal Revenants are easy for an int build if you don't suck (yes, even the ones in the Haligtree). Gargoyles are melted by Glintstone Spiral. You can easily pick up some fire sorceries, but even without them the hands aren't that bad. Magic resistant = rock sling or meteor, etc. etc. For the most part all enemy types and bosses have some sorcery that counters them, though some can be a bit annoying to get. The only thing you don't really have an effective counter for is large groups of fast aggressive enemies, like e.g. the final fight in the Millicent quest line. If you want to fight things you can just use the glintblade + carian sorceries/moonblade which are quite effective.
 

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