ELEX ELEX RELEASE THREAD

[MasPingon]

So to the ending:

Spoiler

I was really frightened that it would turn into a Risen 1 crawler. But luckily that didn't happen.
One could argue that the converters would count as dungeons, but they were quite short and not really annoying.
What was great in my eyes:
There isn't a Sleeper Temple, there isn't Irdorath and there isn't the annoying volcano fortress.
Endgame is boring and dumb, but the best in a PB game to date.

Story was really cringeworthy, maybe a little above the level of R3.
(HAHAHA! I WILL STEAL YOUR WAIFU NOW!!!)
But at the same time i found it mildly interesting to find out about the traitors.
I got the max cold ending and i was sad that i didn't get the Alb armor for the end-game.
ELEX 2 seems to have aliens then? Sounds pretty standard, but ok.
The Dawkins shit is a bit like the Master in Fallout.

You really become OP at the end, so the game is much faster.
It took me 62 hours and i think i used at least 35 hours on all that stuff before joining a guild.
It's sad that item progression stops later suddenly.
But that's also a standard problem.

I did a bit of the discovering at the end, but that isn't satisfying if you can't find better stuff than you already have. (of course)
Like in every PB game the beginning is the real deal and once you join a guild the game is basically won.

Combat was fun for me throughout the whole game.
Melee combat system is nice, skill based and good. Would have to replay R1 to be sure what's the best PB melee combat system.
Ranged combat is a lot more boring, but that's the nature of the thing i guess.
I loved my Grenade Launcher and my Jetpack though.
It felt good to let death rain on these Alb bastards.

The quest compass is shit of course. You can't make 100% of the quests without it...
More like 70%. That should be fixed for ELEX 2.
It's not helpful when the dialogue talks about "somewhere in Xacor".

To date it's the PB game with the most RPG elements.
Even if you hate ELEX, you have to acknowledge that it's more an RPG than even G1 and G2.
Quite a bit of skill checks and C&C not just in side quests, but also a bit in the main quest.
That's a great improvement.
I really like the skill checks.

The world is a little to big in my opinion. There are lots of empty areas.
Makes the world more realistic - that's for sure.
But a size like in G1 and G2 would have been better.

So in my book it's clearly many steps ahead of Risen 1, which makes ELEX the third best PB game.
The order's now:
G2>G1>E1>R1>G3=R3>R2

Wtf is this, a poem?

 

[Darth Roxor]

you are still all dumbshits anyway

You just only seen better parts of the game yet.

I refuse to believe ELEX has worse parts

 

[HoboForEternity]

Agree with not all of the quest did offer clear instruction. Most of them have and it is already such an improvement over 99% of modern game design, but there can be imorovement here and there

 

[Grimlorn]

nasty is not litterally one of the dev?

What does this mean? Did a dev write her or is she based on dev?

 

[Volken]

Agree with not all of the quest did offer clear instruction. Most of them have and it is already such an improvement over 99% of modern game design, but there can be imorovement here and there

Do you call the "one line at a time" retarded dialogue system an improvement? After yet another NPC blabbering bullshit at me I just right-click everything and read the journal. I can't stand this shit anymore. Just make it one big dialogue window where I can read all this shit if I care to. How is it an improvement over 99% of modern game design when NPC spews meaningless bullshit and rewards you with FedEx quest. Voice-over was a waste of $$$.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Does factions provide a lot of additional content? I feel like I've done almost every quest which is available before joing a faction, reached level ~23 or so, have enough firepower so that there is no enemy which can pose a threat.
Will the things change after joing the faction? The only thing left unexplored is Albs territory.

 

[Kahr]

Does factions provide a lot of additional content? I feel like I've done almost every quest which is available before joing a faction, reached level ~23 or so, have enough firepower so that there is no enemy which can pose a threat.
Will the things change after joing the faction? The only thing left unexplored is Albs territory.

6-7 faction-exclusive quests it seems.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

What's clunky about combat?

Many many people have commented that the combat just feels bad. Here's why:

-Slow/overly elaborate combat animations. Numerous people have noted this--your attacks just seem to come out really slow. The 1-handed sword animation for example starts with a clunky-looking back swing. Why? Swords are not 30 lbs.

-Bad hitboxes -- Enemy attacks in particular have far more range than they appear. For example the troll's double-ground slam combo is so far-reaching you can dodge the first one and still get hit by the second when further away. Many charge and lunge attacks from enemies have similar ranges. The idea seems to be for the player to rely on i-frames rather than straight up evasion, which is kinda crummy.

-Annoying lock on -- You move really fucking slow while locked on. This makes the lock-on almost more of a hindrance than a help. Again, the goal here seems to be to get you to rely on i-frames.

-No animation cancelling -- when you push an attack button you are committed to it. This means you can't dodge enemy attacks on reaction, you have to predict them and have predictable stagger/hyperarmor mechanics. Unfortunately--

-No predictable hyperarmor -- I've had enemies tank through a heavy combo and giant trolls stagger from a single light attack. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.

-Unpredictable enemy attacks -- Some foes are better designed than others. Human enemies are fun to fight, so are the big trolls/cyclopes (just don't lock on!) Some enemies have attacks that are almost too fast to dodge on reaction, which makes melee never safe against them. Night shades, Chimeras, and Molochs are big offenders here.

-Input lag -- The combo timing is ungenerous to say the least. You usually have to commit to another swing in a combo WAAAAAY before the swing actually connects. When you can't count on staggering an enemy--or they whip out a fast combo you can't dodge--this makes combo attacks spectacularly unsafe to use. The Super Move is a big offender here, since you need to hit the button for it far earlier than when you'll know that it's safe to do so. If you miss it, there's a long recover delay before you can execute it.


In the end, the melee combat problems are obviated by the superiority of ranged attacks. This seems to be by design since ranged weapons all out-damage melee (even 2-handers), the stat requirements overlap, and skill points are easy to get.

What would you personally consider a good action combat design? Any examples?

This:

 

[Lithium Flower]

The issue with the Stormson quest is that the dead patrol's location makes no sense. They were supposed to go to the Valley of the Damned which is south of Goliet yet they are a few clicks north of the city. Bear in mind that I am yet to visit Stormson in Hort so there might be some story explanation for this that I am not aware of.

But yes, the precise quest markers are pretty stupid, especially in the cases when you are told to search an area or find something hidden and the quest marker just points you straight to the objective.

This being a PB game I entered with extremely low expectations for the writing and the story and was actually pleasantly surprised. It is better written and voice-acted than G2 - not like that is some achievement but a pleasant improvement nonetheless - and I even found certain characters to be quite likeable, like Alrik and Bigby. I am actually intrigued about the mysteries which the game set up although I fear that it will turn into some silly "logik is better than emoshins" vs "but emoshins maek you humen" philosoraptoring.

Also, I'm sure this was brought up a hundred times already but Berserkers is a really bad name for the faction. The name implies either a wild or enraged mindset (which they clearly do not share as they are practically hippies) or some sort of connection to Norse warriors, I guess. I suppose a lot of them have Scandinavian names for whatever reason, so by that logic shouldn't the Outlaws be called Cowboys? It seems that Barbarians would be a much better name for them as it reflects their tribal culture and their hatred of technology which sets them apart from the other factions as the "other."

 

[Kahr]

-Annoying lock on -- You move really fucking slow while locked on. This makes the lock-on almost more of a hindrance than a help. Again, the goal here seems to be to get you to rely on i-frames.

Don't use lock-on, moron.

-Unpredictable enemy attacks -- Some foes are better designed than others. Human enemies are fun to fight, so are the big trolls/cyclopes (just don't lock on!) Some enemies have attacks that are almost too fast to dodge on reaction, which makes melee never safe against them. Night shades, Chimeras, and Molochs are big offenders here.

Very close combat isn't safe with them. So keep your distance then they make the charge attack.
This way you can beat em easily. This is a easy pattern just like the one the chickens use.

-No predictable hyperarmor -- I've had enemies tank through a heavy combo and giant trolls stagger from a single light attack. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.

Smaller enemies get always stunned when you do the combo right with heavy attacks.
It only works 2 attacks for trolls and other bigger enemies in my experience though.

-Input lag -- The combo timing is ungenerous to say the least. You usually have to commit to another swing in a combo WAAAAAY before the swing actually connects. When you can't count on staggering an enemy--or they whip out a fast combo you can't dodge--this makes combo attacks spectacularly unsafe to use. The Super Move is a big offender here, since you need to hit the button for it far earlier than when you'll know that it's safe to do so. If you miss it, there's a long recover delay before you can execute it.

You click when the swing is completed to make another swing for the combo. The enemy is stunned this way and doesn't react.

We're talking about games here, not eastern asian child porn cartoons.

 

[Elex]

nasty is not litterally one of the dev?

What does this mean? Did a dev write her or is she based on dev?

i think she is based on a dev at least phisically/haircut like adam jensen.

What's clunky about combat?

Many many people have commented that the combat just feels bad. Here's why:

-Slow/overly elaborate combat animations. Numerous people have noted this--your attacks just seem to come out really slow. The 1-handed sword animation for example starts with a clunky-looking back swing. Why? Swords are not 30 lbs.

-Bad hitboxes -- Enemy attacks in particular have far more range than they appear. For example the troll's double-ground slam combo is so far-reaching you can dodge the first one and still get hit by the second when further away. Many charge and lunge attacks from enemies have similar ranges. The idea seems to be for the player to rely on i-frames rather than straight up evasion, which is kinda crummy.

-Annoying lock on -- You move really fucking slow while locked on. This makes the lock-on almost more of a hindrance than a help. Again, the goal here seems to be to get you to rely on i-frames.

-No animation cancelling -- when you push an attack button you are committed to it. This means you can't dodge enemy attacks on reaction, you have to predict them and have predictable stagger/hyperarmor mechanics. Unfortunately--

-No predictable hyperarmor -- I've had enemies tank through a heavy combo and giant trolls stagger from a single light attack. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.

-Unpredictable enemy attacks -- Some foes are better designed than others. Human enemies are fun to fight, so are the big trolls/cyclopes (just don't lock on!) Some enemies have attacks that are almost too fast to dodge on reaction, which makes melee never safe against them. Night shades, Chimeras, and Molochs are big offenders here.

-Input lag -- The combo timing is ungenerous to say the least. You usually have to commit to another swing in a combo WAAAAAY before the swing actually connects. When you can't count on staggering an enemy--or they whip out a fast combo you can't dodge--this makes combo attacks spectacularly unsafe to use. The Super Move is a big offender here, since you need to hit the button for it far earlier than when you'll know that it's safe to do so. If you miss it, there's a long recover delay before you can execute it.


In the end, the melee combat problems are obviated by the superiority of ranged attacks. This seems to be by design since ranged weapons all out-damage melee (even 2-handers), the stat requirements overlap, and skill points are easy to get.

What would you personally consider a good action combat design? Any examples?

This:

dragon dogma is fun to watch, cool to play at low level but then game become extremely easy and all about hit a weak spot and massacre any enemy. i loved how you can fail quest in dragon dogma.

 

[Blaine]

Many many people have commented that the combat just feels bad. Here's why:

-Slow/overly elaborate combat animations. Numerous people have noted this--your attacks just seem to come out really slow. The 1-handed sword animation for example starts with a clunky-looking back swing. Why? Swords are not 30 lbs.

-Bad hitboxes -- Enemy attacks in particular have far more range than they appear. For example the troll's double-ground slam combo is so far-reaching you can dodge the first one and still get hit by the second when further away. Many charge and lunge attacks from enemies have similar ranges. The idea seems to be for the player to rely on i-frames rather than straight up evasion, which is kinda crummy.

-Annoying lock on -- You move really fucking slow while locked on. This makes the lock-on almost more of a hindrance than a help. Again, the goal here seems to be to get you to rely on i-frames.

-No animation cancelling -- when you push an attack button you are committed to it. This means you can't dodge enemy attacks on reaction, you have to predict them and have predictable stagger/hyperarmor mechanics. Unfortunately--

-No predictable hyperarmor -- I've had enemies tank through a heavy combo and giant trolls stagger from a single light attack. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.

-Unpredictable enemy attacks -- Some foes are better designed than others. Human enemies are fun to fight, so are the big trolls/cyclopes (just don't lock on!) Some enemies have attacks that are almost too fast to dodge on reaction, which makes melee never safe against them. Night shades, Chimeras, and Molochs are big offenders here.

-Input lag -- The combo timing is ungenerous to say the least. You usually have to commit to another swing in a combo WAAAAAY before the swing actually connects. When you can't count on staggering an enemy--or they whip out a fast combo you can't dodge--this makes combo attacks spectacularly unsafe to use. The Super Move is a big offender here, since you need to hit the button for it far earlier than when you'll know that it's safe to do so. If you miss it, there's a long recover delay before you can execute it.

Absolutely spot-on. I noticed all of these (save hyperarmor) within the first handful of combat encounters. The warp drive Spine Hound lunge stands out in the "unpredictable enemy attacks" category. I turned off auto-lock almost immediately; it's especially deadly to the novice player if trapped in narrow confines.

What would you personally consider a good action combat design? Any examples?

This:

Yeah, you're gonna get mocked because this is a Japanese game, but the vast majority of these goons have never played it. I agree with you 110%. The combat in Dragon's Dogma is almost ridiculously smooth and fluid, and the controls and camera are tight and beautifully implemented. I've played it on my 144Hz G-Sync monitor, and the smoothness is just completely unprecedented. The game does get pretty easy later on, as Elex indicated, but oh well.

Honestly, if "but it's an RPG" is a valid defense for janky-ass third-person action combat, then "try something other than third-person action combat" should be a valid counterargument.

 

[Shadenuat]

Many many people have commented that the combat just feels bad. Here's why:

That's why I think best tactic in (melee) Elex is to either facetank enemy with strong weapon and just kill him before he even swings & gulp one of your 120 healpots/fried meats and continue on your way, or roll&hump that ass. Other tactics may be "fairer" but they are simply not as effective against enemies like mutant bugs that can make 5 attacks in a row whereas most characters would need only 3 to die. Simply exploiting invulerability frames with rolling is easiest too. You could probably just adapt and remember all hitboxes and attacks of course, but why bother if skull enemies just take too long to kill and in a few levels they will take 1 combo to kill? There is no reason to "git gut" if that concept was even applicable to this game.

I played without lock on/+manual lock on and I actually had my attacks connect less often or sometimes pass through enemies without damage btw compared to when I used lock on. Or maybe it was something to deal with damage absorption idk.

 

[Kahr]

We all just fucking suck.
ELEX combat wasn't made with us petty, little humans in mind.

 

[Tigranes]

I haven't used lock on in Risens or Elex and I prefer it that way - it works a lot better against groups & if you are using normal movement. Lock on I think works better if you use a lot of the roll moves.

The issue with later PB gamess is that the balance of animation timings means too often, just being the first to swing lets you connect 3, 4 attacks without reply. (It's slightly easier for players to interrupt the sequence.) I seem to remmeber Gothic enemies being much readier to block your hits mid-sequence.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Don't use lock-on, moron.

Maybe I'm just a little bit entitled here, but I think if a developer creates a core game mechanic--which is enabled by default--maybe it shouldn't make the game actively worse to play. Just a thought.

eah, you're gonna get mocked because this is a Japanese game, but the vast majority of these goons have never played it. I agree with you 110%. The combat in Dragon's Dogma is almost ridiculously smooth and fluid, and the controls and camera are tight and beautifully implemented. I've played it on my 144Hz G-Sync monitor, and the smoothness is just completely unprecedented. The game does get pretty easy later on, as Elex indicated, but oh well.

Yeah I don't care where it comes from, the combat is Dragon's Dogma awesome. ELEX turns into a snoozefest once you get a tier-3 bow/gun anyway, so I don't see the big complaint there.

At least in DD your stats actually do stuff....

 

[dragonul09]

What's clunky about combat?

Many many people have commented that the combat just feels bad. Here's why:

-Slow/overly elaborate combat animations. Numerous people have noted this--your attacks just seem to come out really slow. The 1-handed sword animation for example starts with a clunky-looking back swing. Why? Swords are not 30 lbs.

-Bad hitboxes -- Enemy attacks in particular have far more range than they appear. For example the troll's double-ground slam combo is so far-reaching you can dodge the first one and still get hit by the second when further away. Many charge and lunge attacks from enemies have similar ranges. The idea seems to be for the player to rely on i-frames rather than straight up evasion, which is kinda crummy.

-Annoying lock on -- You move really fucking slow while locked on. This makes the lock-on almost more of a hindrance than a help. Again, the goal here seems to be to get you to rely on i-frames.

-No animation cancelling -- when you push an attack button you are committed to it. This means you can't dodge enemy attacks on reaction, you have to predict them and have predictable stagger/hyperarmor mechanics. Unfortunately--

-No predictable hyperarmor -- I've had enemies tank through a heavy combo and giant trolls stagger from a single light attack. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it.

-Unpredictable enemy attacks -- Some foes are better designed than others. Human enemies are fun to fight, so are the big trolls/cyclopes (just don't lock on!) Some enemies have attacks that are almost too fast to dodge on reaction, which makes melee never safe against them. Night shades, Chimeras, and Molochs are big offenders here.

-Input lag -- The combo timing is ungenerous to say the least. You usually have to commit to another swing in a combo WAAAAAY before the swing actually connects. When you can't count on staggering an enemy--or they whip out a fast combo you can't dodge--this makes combo attacks spectacularly unsafe to use. The Super Move is a big offender here, since you need to hit the button for it far earlier than when you'll know that it's safe to do so. If you miss it, there's a long recover delay before you can execute it.


In the end, the melee combat problems are obviated by the superiority of ranged attacks. This seems to be by design since ranged weapons all out-damage melee (even 2-handers), the stat requirements overlap, and skill points are easy to get.

What would you personally consider a good action combat design? Any examples?

This:

To make that kind of fluid gameplay you need talent, what kind of talent one would expect from PB when they can't be bothered to upgrade their animations that somehow still resemble Gothic 1. What kind of talent would you expect from them when they chop down the UI to the most basic console arpg games on the market, because showing actual information about your char is not that relevant they thought.

I mean look at this shit,one of ''toughest'' enemy in the game



2 lousy telegraphed combat animations that could be dodged by someone with late stage muscular dystrophy and somehow this game seem to be ''best'' rpg in the last 10 years. I would understand this kind of hype if the writing was something out of the ordinary, but for fuck sake even that it's serviceable at best, it's just a mediocre experience all around the board.

 

[Shadenuat]

Even final boss is like that.

The only one type of enemy like that I like are the big mechas. Because when you get close to them they fly in the air and shoot you. It's p. neat.

 

[Fenix]

Many many people have commented that the combat just feels bad. Here's why:

While I somewhat agree with your arguments, I just can not see why combat in this game is better.
That artificial gamy slowdown when you do combo... that's bad, absolutely bad.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

2 lousy telegraphed combat animations that could be dodged by someone with late stage muscular dystrophy and somehow this game seem to be ''best'' rpg in the last 10 years. I would understand this kind of hype if the writing was something out of the ordinary, but for fuck sake even that it's serviceable at best, it's just a mediocre experience all around the board.

Trolls/Cyclopses are easy to beat as long as you don't lock on. You can just run around behind them and whack them like this guy does. If you lock on, you need to dodge all their swings with pinpoint i-frame timing. The lock on is just crippling here.

The only one type of enemy like that I like are the big mechas. Because when you get close to them they fly in the air and shoot you. It's p. neat.

I found the mechs annoying because they will literally jump out of your combos. When they go in the air, they either slam back down or fly backwards and shoot you. Both of these attacks need to be dodged with i-frames and they both have different timings. If there is a tell between them I never saw it, so good luck guessing! To make matters worse, the jump carries them completely off the screen. Ugh.

On the other hand, you just pull out your sooper lazor gun, go pew-pew-pew, and they're dead in 3 hits.

 

[Lyre Mors]

A note on quest design and directions to your objective. I was the shoutboxer Blaine referred to who said I've been able to complete every quest I've received through directions in dialogue and general exploration, and I have indeed. That said, when I am playing this game, I am playing it like a classic PB game in that I explore every new area I enter fully to the best of my ability. If you get vague directions, think of why that might be in context. You might just have to actually explore an area without being given absolutely precise coordinates or directions. If I recall correctly, there were a number of instances where this was the case in both Gothic 1 and 2. Of course there are the cases in the Hort where directions are uploaded to your map, but I think that is more a world logic thing than laziness (maybe it's both?), though I've only seen this a couple times even in the Hort, so if you're looking to play a Cleric you can still get a lot of interesting and intuitive quest design.

If you can't find a quest location from directions right away, sometimes you're suppose to go with the flow and explore. The game has eventually led me to my goal one way or another. Don't indulge in the checklist mentality of modern quest design and it probably won't bother you if it takes awhile to find what you're looking for. If this bothers you, turn on quest markers. They provided that option just for you.

 

[Kahr]

Yeah most times it's very well done.
I'm also happy with "In the west of Tavar" or "in the Northeast of Abessa".
But not with "somewhere in Edan", "somewhere in Abessa".
You're forced to either use the quest-marker or search every inch of Edan and as much as i like exploration i don't want to search a full forest for a stupid plant e.g.

Also "here are the coordinates" is very lazy imo

 

[dragonul09]

Many many people have commented that the combat just feels bad. Here's why:

While I somewhat agree with your arguments, I just can not see why combat in this game is better.
That artificial gamy slowdown when you do combo... that's bad, absolutely bad.

And you are absolutely retarded if you think Dragons Dogma combat is worse than Elex, I understand that people have different opinions and tastes but we have to draw a line somewhere folks, because you just can't say cancer is better than a mild cold and trust me, Elex is not mild cold, it's late stage 4 cancer when it comes to gameplay.

 

[Fenix]

Agree - just explore.
I turned on Quest Markers just once yet, and it wasn't needed, since I almos stumbled upon Torald - I mean my next target was that circle near Dome, where that Torald was.

For example how many of you know where this plase is? Contain nothing special, but do you explore?

Spoiler

And you are absolutely retarded if you think Dragons Dogma combat is worse than Elex

I said that artificial slowdown is shit.
And I said that I can't see where it's better.
Period.

 

[Shadenuat]

That said, when I am playing this game, I am playing it like a classic PB game in that I explore every new area I enter fully to the best of my ability.

Tigranes would be happy knowing that vacuum cleaning still works!

Contain nothing special

It actually doesn't contain anything at all afaik, some random chests or barrel near it has loot instead. I was p. disappointed.

I liked finding isle of thanatos viking island where you get quest with long running consequences (thiaf guild) and lighthouse with cannibals. Maybe also Infinite Skies bunker but I believe it opens only during quest. Other places are very generic.

I found the mechs annoying because they will literally jump out of your combos.

Arguably it's not bad some enemies require ranged weapons to defeat - itsa RPG and all that. You use ammunition which costs something while melee you don't lose anything and get free trophies.
Although I guess game doesn't make you really care about them arrows much.