ELEX ELEX RELEASE THREAD

[Luckmann]

Yeah, that's how the quest should've been designed, I agree, if the developers were actually competent. Relying on a quest compass system when it makes no fucking sense is incredibly lazy, although you'll hardly see the plebs accept anything without it, these days.

My point is that since the quest marker is completely optional, that it isn't designed around it. The way I described it is actually how it was designed, with a compass option for plebs unfortunately also in place. You can easily complete that quest in a natural way, just as I did in during my playthrough. You just have to continue your exploration of the world.

Except it's absolutely not. "Explore absolutely everything" is not quest design, for fucks sake. You simply stumbling upon something randomly because you're autistic doesn't constitute good quest design. The quests themselves still rely on you having a quest marker, just like it does in Skyrim or Oblivion, and rarely are you given any meaningful indication of location, and tons of quests rely entirely on "I'll mark it on your map!". Even when you are given general directions such as "Somewhere in this region", there's no way to check what "Somewhere in this region" means, and if you start tracking the quest, a completely fucking reasonable thing to do and a game mechanic obviously intended to be used, you get a quest marker that leads you straight to it, with 100% unerring accuracy.

I'm a bit shocked and disgusted at the decline of the Codex here, defending quest compasses and the "If you don't like it, don't do it lol!" logic (or rather, lack thereof).

 

[Shadenuat]

but the quest compass is turned off by default, you actually have to turn it on if you are too fucking dumb or impatient to finish something by yourself

still waiting for my 30 examples though, and rating me "butthurt" because you're full of shit is not going to make your argument any better Luckmann

Nobody is going to give you 30 examples in a list because you called people bad players, it's an idiotic request. You're not on reddit/steam/bethesdards forums. People gave you examples and opinions, deal with it or shut up.

 

[Doktor Best]

The fact that you can turn something off DOES NOT mean game was designed without it in mind. Otherwise developers would be 100% sure about their design and would not include it at all. But they did. And they are not even sure themselves what they wanted with something big as stats. They added compass just like they added teleports and beds with infinite hp and mana. You may want to pretend game is more hardcore and say you may not use teleports and beds just as you can turn off compass, but that's just that - pretending.

Some quests can be completed natural way. Some, like many main storyline quests, are just "updated my journal go find that thing somewhere".

Yeah because Gothic 1 and 2 didnt have teleports and infinite heal from beds. Quest compass was added i suppose because of the crowds of people who expect them nowadays. I mean even here we have people who expect to be guided to every quest goal. I can only speak from my own experience but i didnt use it once and im doing fine so far.

And yeah, i get the point that games have to be designed without quest compass in mind in order to work without them. Skyrim wouldnt work. Witcher 3 would only work in some cases and you'd miss alot of stuff. But Elex works totally fine without compass.

 

[Luckmann]

but the quest compass is turned off by default, you actually have to turn it on if you are too fucking dumb or impatient to finish something by yourself

It's not turned off by default, it activates automatically as soon as you start tracking a quest. You don't have to track your quests in Skyrim either. Just walk around aimlessly until you find the quest or pick up the right object in the game world, amirite?

still waiting for my 30 examples though, and rating me "butthurt" because you're full of shit is not going to make your argument any better Luckmann

I'm sorry, but there's no "Fucking Delusional" option. "Butthurt" was the closest I could get, but I can change it to "Retarded" if you want. I'm not going to sit down and replay the fucking game just to note the quest dialogues down, compare it to the journal entries, and then trace exactly what the built-in quest compass points to at every point along the line just because you've got a hard-on for defending decline.

 

[Shadenuat]

Yeah because Gothic 1 and 2 didnt have teleports

I actually don't remember, did they? Were they runes you find or something and even costed some mana to cast?

 

[Lyre Mors]

You simply stumbling upon something randomly because you're autistic doesn't constitute good quest design.

I don't think exploring a place that you were sent to for the explicit reason of becoming familiar with, then seeing an individual who is clearly wearing furs instead of the faction's neon armor, then approaching and identifying is particularly autistic.

 

[vivec]

but the quest compass is turned off by default, you actually have to turn it on if you are too fucking dumb or impatient to finish something by yourself

still waiting for my 30 examples though, and rating me "butthurt" because you're full of shit is not going to make your argument any better Luckmann

If it is turned off by default then its function is basically a retard radar. Also, as long as the quest gives ample directions so that you *can* find stuff without magical help then the quest is well designed.

 

[Luckmann]

You simply stumbling upon something randomly because you're autistic doesn't constitute good quest design.

I don't think exploring a place that you were sent to for the explicit reason to become familiar with, then seeing an individual who is clearly wearing furs instead of the faction's neon armor, then approaching and identifying is particularly autistic.

Spoiler

That would assume an extremely specific order of actions. Assume instead, for example, that you've already been to the Hort multiple times, done most quests there, before you happen to randomly come upon the point in Edan where Stormson was liberated (because you're not using a quest compass, amirite? So it'll have to be completely random, because you have no indication of where the patrol actually is).

Are you going to randomly comb over the entire Hort again, at some point, randomly walking into what you'll assume to be a completely fucking empty cave? If you say yes, you're either full of shit or legitimately autistic, and the kind of person that creates a grid of the map and then starts counting from A1 each time you play.

Edit: I want to make this perfectly clear, by the way, that there is no indication whatsoever about where Stormson is, specifically, given at any point, by anyone. I know this, because my game was bugged, and Stormson wasn't actually in the Hort, and throughout my explorations and doing most of the quests in the Hort, talking to everyone there long after Stormson supposedly went there, and no-one ever talks about the new guy or says that there was a raid on the berserkers, or that someone recently defected from the berserkers, even though that would be a huge deal to the Clerics.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Nobody is going to give you 30 examples in a list because you called people bad players, it's an idiotic request. You're not on reddit/steam/bethesdards forums. People gave you examples and opinions, deal with it or shut up.

The only examples I see here are completely idiotic, like Stormson. ZOMG, I DON'T GET DIRECTIONS TO THE GUY WHO HAS JUST BEEN TAKEN OUT TO THE WILDS TO BE MURDERED OUT OF SIGHT. Really and truly, this Overreliance on the Quest Compass and Lack of Directions (tm)(c)(r) in this particular example has to be a textbook case of brain damage.

Where the game is supposed to give you directions, it does so. This is the vast majority of the quests that I've seen so far. Where the location of the target is supposed to be unknown, you don't get directions, and it makes sense. So far, after having taken care of Edan and Abessa, I think I can only remember 3 quests that didn't give me directions - Stormson, Duras's 5 murder goys and the key from the tavern keeper in the domed city.

- Stormson, as described above, makes sense that you wouldn't get directions.
- For Duras it's kind of silly, especially for the two goys who protect the worldhearts, but considering that all five of them are right next to the beaten paths, with only the hobo next to the elevator being actually hard to find because he has natural camouflage, this is the kind of quest that you Solve by Exploring and Doing Other Quests (tm). Standard PB affair.
- Tavernkeeper key. It's supposed to be a test/challenge, so it would be idiotic if he told you where to go.

That's it. Three quests in some 26 hours of my current playtime. So naturally I'm getting an aneurysm when I see some cretins here who probably can't find their bumholes when they reach for the toilet paper saying "many" or even "most" quests in this game are "made with the quest compass in mind". This is why I said "give me 30 quests". If, supposedly, most quests in ELEX are so terrible that they absolutely totally really I AIN'T LYIN' require quest compass to finish, it shouldn't be hard to list just a bigger bunch of them, no?

It's not turned off by default

it is and...

activates automatically as soon as you start tracking a quest.

oh...

Your honour, I rest my case. Holy fucking shit

 

[Lyre Mors]

That would assume an extremely specific order of actions. Assume instead, for example, that you've already been to the Hort multiple times, done most quests there, before you happen to randomly come upon the point in Edan where Stormson was liberated (because you're not using a quest compass, amirite? So it'll have to be completely random, because you have no indication of where the patrol actually is).

Are you going to randomly comb over the entire Hort again, at some point, randomly walking into what you'll assume to be a completely fucking empty cave? If you say yes, you're either full of shit or legitimately autistic, and the kind of person that creates a grid of the map and then starts counting from A1 each time you play.

I would have probably given up on the quest instead of trying to complete everything like a checklist, IF I managed to survive all the Hort quests in the extremely hostile environment of Ignidon. I guess this example is shit quest design, but we also don't know if there are other people you can talk to that will give you information about Stormson down the line. I'm just saying, as a first time player who is progressing naturally through the game, I was able to finish the quest without use of a quest compass and I feel like if you were b-lining to Hort to do all Cleric quests, you'd probably be metagaming and know how the quest played out anyway.

 

[Shadenuat]

if you were b-lining to Hort to do all Cleric quests, you'd probably be metagaming

Now wait a second. Why is making a choice of faction you believe is sensible = metagaming?

Because during my 1st playthrough, Goliet was the last city I visited for quests.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Now wait a second. Why is making a choice of faction you believe is sensible = metagaming?

Because a reasonable person without prior knowledge of the game who was trying to get all the way from Edan to Ignidon on foot would realize very quickly that they aren't able to survive such a trip in the first place. Much like in Gothic 1 and 2 you are given a warning by enemy strength that the zone you are entering is manageable or not. Also, you'd probably have to end up talking to some people in Edan to get an idea who the Clerics ever are. If I remember correctly, Duras only gives you a vague explanation of the factions in the beginning.

 

[Shadenuat]

Because a reasonable person without prior knowledge of the game who was trying to get all the way from Edan to Ignidon on foot would realize very quickly that they aren't able to survive such a trip in the first place. Much like in Gothic 1 and 2 you are given a warning by enemy strength that the zone you are entering is manageable or not. Also, you'd probably have to end up talking to some people in Edan to get an idea who the Clerics ever are.

You aren't able to survive even trip around Goliet on foot just as any other place in the game until you reach some competence. Since everything 1-shots you regardless of level except maybe few quest-made "weakened" or "sick" monsters of same type, you will evade everything with jetpack anyway.

You are told where all the factions are and who they are by separatist dude inside collector.

Much like in Gothic 1 and 2 you are given a warning by enemy strength that the zone you are entering is manageable or not

Also this is nothing but same kind of metagaming knowledge.

Game hammers you how you must join the faction and how important your choice is. From roleplaying standpoint and any other point, I don't see why I must help and work the faction like vikings, killing their weakened sick turkeys and asking for promotions, because other factions might then disagree to work with me because I allied with vikings.

 

[dragonul09]

Nobody is going to give you 30 examples in a list because you called people bad players, it's an idiotic request. You're not on reddit/steam/bethesdards forums. People gave you examples and opinions, deal with it or shut up.

The only examples I see here are completely idiotic, like Stormson. ZOMG, I DON'T GET DIRECTIONS TO THE GUY WHO HAS JUST BEEN TAKEN OUT TO THE WILDS TO BE MURDERED OUT OF SIGHT. Really and truly, this Overreliance on the Quest Compass and Lack of Directions (tm)(c)(r) in this particular example has to be a textbook case of brain damage.

Where the game is supposed to give you directions, it does so. This is the vast majority of the quests that I've seen so far. Where the location of the target is supposed to be unknown, you don't get directions, and it makes sense. So far, after having taken care of Edan and Abessa, I think I can only remember 3 quests that didn't give me directions - Stormson, Duras's 5 murder goys and the key from the tavern keeper in the domed city.

- Stormson, as described above, makes sense that you wouldn't get directions.
- For Duras it's kind of silly, especially for the two goys who protect the worldhearts, but considering that all five of them are right next to the beaten paths, with only the hobo next to the elevator being actually hard to find because he has natural camouflage, this is the kind of quest that you Solve by Exploring and Doing Other Quests (tm). Standard PB affair.
- Tavernkeeper key. It's supposed to be a test/challenge, so it would be idiotic if he told you where to go.

That's it. Three quests in some 26 hours of my current playtime. So naturally I'm getting an aneurysm when I see some cretins here who probably can't find their bumholes when they reach for the toilet paper saying "many" or even "most" quests in this game are "made with the quest compass in mind". This is why I said "give me 30 quests". If, supposedly, most quests in ELEX are so terrible that they absolutely totally really I AIN'T LYIN' require quest compass to finish, it shouldn't be hard to list just a bigger bunch of them, no?

It's not turned off by default

it is and...

activates automatically as soon as you start tracking a quest.

oh...

Your honour, I rest my case. Holy fucking shit

In Tavar you get a lot of quests that gives you no directions, more like a hint to watch your map and activate the compass otherwise you would look for canyons all day long. The game was clearly designed around the compass, there's no inbetweens here and you know what, thank god for it, the world was so fucking painfully empty and unrewarding that exploring was more of a chore than an engaging activity.

 

[Lyre Mors]

You aren't able to survive even trip around Goliet on foot just as any other place in the game until you reach some competence. Since everything 1-shots you regardless of level except maybe few quest-made "weakened" or "sick" monsters of same type, you will evade everything with jetpack anyway.

I guess my response to this would be:

1. That's why Duras says you should follow him and upgrade your equipment in Goliet by doing odd-jobs for awhile.

2. There are quite a few weak enemies on the road to Goliet from the observatory that create a kind of "safer" path for a fresh character.

The reason why I point these two out is that they are very similar circumstances to leaving Xardas' tower in G2, then finding the farm outside the city of Khorinis, where you acquire your rudimentary equipment and experience points. I do understand the difference being that that opening area in G2 was more "gated" (literally and figuratively). ELEX applies a similar approach, except the world is truly open at that point and it's up to the player to understand where and where not it is safe to tread. This is giving the player freedom, but also the risks that accompany said freedom. I appreciated this fresh approach to an open world beginning area.

And no, I'm not saying I think it is as well done as it is in G2.

You are told where all the factions are and who they are by separatist dude inside collector.

I believe you, but am unsure who you are talking about.

 

[Shadenuat]

1. That's why Duras says you should follow him and upgrade your equipment in Goliet by doing odd-jobs for awhile.

I didn't trust him. And even was proved somewhat correct to not trust him by his main quest.

I believe you, but am unsure who you are talking about.

The first one you report to progress from Chapter to Chapter.

Spoiler

where your father also be later

Btw what's the logic of finding him? I just found him because it was biggest shiniest place I've seen when climbing another mountain. I guess separatists in Exile Valley tell you? But what if they die?

 

[vivec]

To be clear, "designed around the compass" means that you *can't* find where to *look* without the compass. Just so that some people might get what is being argued.

 

[Shackleton]

It's not turned off by default

it is and...

activates automatically as soon as you start tracking a quest.

oh...

Your honour, I rest my case. Holy fucking shit

So basically, it activates automatically as soon as you activate it?

 

[Lyre Mors]

I didn't trust him. And even was proved somewhat correct by his main quest.

That's awesome, because it was a choice you made that you had to deal with the consequences of.

The first one you report to progress from Chapter to Chapter.

Ah, that might explain it. I'm still in Chapter 1.

EDIT:

Also this is nothing but same kind of metagaming knowledge.

I don't think that responding to the ostensible power level of enemies is metagaming. But I wasn't really condemning metagaming in the first place, I was just saying that in order to break that quest sequence you would probably be doing a fair amount of it.

 

[Shadenuat]

I've been able to complete every quest I've received through directions in dialogue and general exploration, and I have indeed.

I'm still in Chapter 1.

I don't think game is unplayable without compass, sure is, but just like Roxor people seem to be very positive of Eden candyland which is most friendly place and has more quests than other 2 factions combined.

I don't think that responding to the ostensible power level of enemies is metagaming. But I wasn't really condemning metagaming in the first place, I was just saying that in order to break that quest sequence you would probably be doing a fair amount of it.

For character without weapon with at least 60 flat damage & tier 2 armor, deathclaws in exile valley or monster guarding sword neat Goliet are same as monsters around Ignadon. I just traveled, familiriazed myself with factions (if vikings are on green place, and outlaws are in the desert HUH I WONDER WHERE CLERICS ARE) and joined one I liked first. Then played from there.

 

[Lyre Mors]

I don't think game is unplayable without compass, sure is, but just like Roxor people seem to be very positive of Eden candyland which is most friendly place and has more quests than other 2 factions combined.

I know that I've been an advocate for quest design in this game, but I never said that I've finished it. I said that I was able to complete every quest I've received without using the quest compass. From what I've seen in 36 hours of play and 180 quests completed, this has been true for me. Regardless, that's still pretty good, and an indication to me that it will continue. I'm willing to be wrong, but for it to make me dislike this game because of it, it would have to be the case that I had to use the quest compass for the next 120 quests, and that's still not even "most" of them. Also, I have indeed ventured beyond the beautiful and still very much so dangerous landscape of Edan and have still enjoyed the quests I've done.

 

[Fenix]

Looks like I'm not visiting this thread untill game is finished.

 

[Elex]

1. You can have laser guns, spaceships, robots and all sorts of fucking advanced technology, but having an NPC to point at a location on the holographic map that shoots of your pip boy arm implant is an advanced technique that nobody in the year 3000+ could possibly be proficient in. Not to mention that quest markers are completely optional.

Git gud and L2P.

No, people have problems with the fact that certain NPCs tell you "go search this area for x item" or "go find this hidden thing that I could never find myself" and you instantly know its location.

I suppose quest markers are optional in the same sense that fast travel is but many quests don't have adequate directions because they were designed with magic quest markers in mind.

Nice strawman though.

btw this happen all the times in real life.

people can’t find stuff, or have no idea about an address, maybe they are lazy or really can’t find stuff. (happen all the times with tourists)

and i use my arcane device and cast the google spell and i magically find stuff.

luckly in real life there is not a troll and 2 mutant close to the item they need.

 

[Elex]

I received a key from the cleric head of the domed city after abessa conflict. The description of that quest is something like "I found a key, not sure what it opens". Oh okay, press Z to track quest then.

*big ass yellow marker appears on the map

there is litterally 4 doors/trapdoor in the entire planet.

 

[Xeon]

Is Are there glasses for both loot and creatures or just one or the other?

Edit:
I think its an are instead of an is.