Elite: Dangerous

[J_C]

Hey DraQ Here is your newtonian physics:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/309114309/infinity-battlescape
Enjoy your multiplayer shooter.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

The engines are applying a force directly towards the center axle of the space station cylinder to keep the ship stationary relative to the landing pad. When the engines cut off the ship will maintain it's current velocity which is tangential to the outer cylinder of the space station. So yeah, the video makes sense... I think.

edit: clarity

not even close.
if you keep your engines on and you're essentially stationary, inside a rotating object, even if noone of them is influenced by any gravity vector, once you shut down the engines everything else starts to spin and move because you're not stationary anymore. landing pads don't possess magical gravity. maybe the station does, but then the ship would be attracted toward the point where the most of the mass is, the bottom of the station, surely not the magical landing pad.

 

[Ulminati]

So I got one of these: http://edtracker.org.uk

I sort of rushed calibration and sensitivity setup, so it's a bit shaky. But hella trippy all the same.

Hey DraQ Here is your newtonian physics:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/309114309/infinity-battlescape
Enjoy your multiplayer shooter.

Ha! They've had a "combat prototype" since 2006, but they can't make it play well and especially not over network.

 

[J_C]

So I got one of these: http://edtracker.org.uk

I sort of rushed calibration and sensitivity setup, so it's a bit shaky. But hella trippy all the same.

Nice one. I used one half a year ago, I built it myself according to the schematics on that site. Despite my shitty soldering, it was working allright. Atleast for a while, until the soldering let off. :D It was also unprecise after longer use, but that was a previous version. As I read it on the site, the current one is much more precise.

These head tracking devices make simulators very comfortable to use. After you get used to it, you can't imagine going back. It also take off some load from my joystick, because I don't have to calibrate the look right-left-up-down keys.

 

[Ulminati]

It was also unprecise after longer use, but that was a previous version. As I read it on the site, the current one is much more precise.

They swapped the accelerometer with a magnetometer. Calibration takes a bit longer (and you do a weird swirly dance to get readings in all directions), but id's less prone to drift off-centre.

 

[Duellist_D]

Ulminati, did you buy the pro-Version or the DIY?
If you chose the latter, how much of a hassle is it to set up?

 

[J_C]

Ulminati, did you buy the pro-Version or the DIY?
If you chose the latter, how much of a hassle is it to set up?

If you can solder, than it is very easy to build the DIY version. Basicly you solder 2 or 3 components together at their pins. Then you plug it into you PC and flesh the driver on it, calibrate it and you are ready to go.

What I am going to use is this:

It is a homemade version of TrackIR. TrackIR being the leading head tracker on the market is a great tech, but it is seriously overpriced. You can build it at home or buy it for 25 GBP and it is very precise.
Here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125FPS-Fr...771999?hash=item25aa689a9f:g:ycIAAOSwLqFV74jD
It uses a webcame and an LED clip.

 

[Ulminati]

Ulminati, did you buy the pro-Version or the DIY?
If you chose the latter, how much of a hassle is it to set up?

I chose the latter because I figured if I messed up: paying 2x postage + 2x base components would cost the same as the pro.

I got the thingie in a box. Connected the thing with the USB cable that came with. Attached it on my headset with a rubber band (I'm gonna duct tape it to a cap later).
windows automatically detected the HID and installed the drivers for it. I downloaded the pro calibration software from edtracker. Ran it. Clicked calibrate. then waved it around a bit like the video in the program showed.

Fired up ED, went into options->controls. Scrolled down to headtracking and set the axis by moving my head. Tweaked the various settings in the calibration app and ed to get sensitivity comfortable.

And that's it.

 

[Duellist_D]

If you can solder, than it is very easy to build the DIY version. Basicly you solder 2 or 3 components together at their pins. Then you plug it into you PC and flesh the driver on it, calibrate it and you are ready to go.

What I am going to use is this:

It is a homemade version of TrackIR. TrackIR being the leading head tracker on the market is a great tech, but it is seriously overpriced. You can build it at home or buy it for 25 GBP and it is very precise.
Here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125FPS-Fr...771999?hash=item25aa689a9f:g:ycIAAOSwLqFV74jD
It uses a webcame and an LED clip.

Interesting, I'll have to take a look at this.

Ulminati: sounds pretty easy and straightforward.
Does this only work with ED or will it run with other games to?
Mainly interested in pre-rebirth X.

 

[Ulminati]

http://edtracker.org.uk/index.php/using/game-support

 

[J_C]

Latest update is up about orbital and surface flight:

In the game currently supercruise ends when you get too close to a planet. If you have Horizons then your ships will automatically be assigned a module that enables the ship to operate at orbital heights down to the surface in what we’re calling Orbital Cruise. With this module you will transition into orbital flight when you reach the appropriate altitude.

The ship handles a little differently in orbital flight. The key difference is that if you fly within orbital parameters (essentially perpendicular to the surface) you will travel faster and this provides a mechanism for moving quickly around the planet. This is also highlighted in the UI by showing the sweet spot on your pitch control. Below orbital cruise you enter into surface flight and the controls change again to reflect the flight model operating within gravity and your thrusters compensating for you flight close to the surface.

As well as handling differences (and high gravity worlds feel different to fly on compared to low gravity worlds) the flight UI has been updated to provide the relevant information you need when flying near the surface like altitude, pitch and so forth. We’ll show more on this in the coming weeks, but for this week I just wanted to establish the different zones that you can be in and how that affects you while playing.

And the transition is seemless. Who would have thought?

 

[Ulminati]

Maybe, maybe not. We have transitiosn when going in/out of supercruise atm. Nothing stopping them from having supercruise/orbitcruise and orbitcruise/surfacecruise transition breaks.

 

[Morkar Left]

The ship handles a little differently in orbital flight. The key difference is that if you fly within orbital parameters (essentially perpendicular to the surface) you will travel faster

I think these guys have some strange logic when it comes to the "sim" aspects that is hard to follow.

 

[Ulminati]

More misadventures of CMDR Ulminati - now vs other people!
got headtracking properly calibrated and it feels a lot better now. But CQC requires you to be pointed at somethign to target it. And the "target object being looked at" command is really strict with how close ot center of your field of vision it needs ot be. Made the first 5-6 rounds hella hard as I was firing blind.

 

[J_C]

I think these guys have some strange logic when it comes to the "sim" aspects that is hard to follow.

Nothing new here, Elite Dangerous always bent the rules a little in order to make the game more enjoyable.

 

[J_C]

Maybe, maybe not. We have transitiosn when going in/out of supercruise atm. Nothing stopping them from having supercruise/orbitcruise and orbitcruise/surfacecruise transition breaks.

I hope the only transition we will see is the super cruise exit.

 

[Rutteger]

not even close.
if you keep your engines on and you're essentially stationary, inside a rotating object, even if noone of them is influenced by any gravity vector, once you shut down the engines everything else starts to spin and move because you're not stationary anymore. landing pads don't possess magical gravity. maybe the station does, but then the ship would be attracted toward the point where the most of the mass is, the bottom of the station, surely not the magical landing pad.

Yeah, I think we're saying the same thing. But the phrase "everything else starts to spin and move because you're not stationary anymore" is very confusing. Stationary relative to what?

Anyway, If you read my post you'll see that I didn't mention gravity, because it's effects aren't evident in the video as they shouldn't be (unless the space stations is extremely dense). The Flight Assist is keeping the ship stationary relative to the landing pad. My post simply describes the means by which I think it is doing so (applying a constant force towards the axis that the space station is rotating around).

Edit: Nevermind, I still don't understand why you think everything will start to spin. The ship and the landing pad have the same velocity at the moment the engines are shut off. The ship shouldn't stop, it will just fail to accelerate towards the axis that the space station is rotating around, and therefore more towards the landing pad.

 

[potatojohn]

Edit: Nevermind, I still don't understand why you think everything will start to spin. The ship and the landing pad have the same velocity at the moment the engines are shut off. The ship shouldn't stop, it will just fail to accelerate towards the axis that the space station is rotating around, and therefore more towards the landing pad.

If you turn off the engines you'er not going to remain over the landing pad, isn't that obvious?

If you want to move in a circle, you need to accelerate toward the center at all times or you'll leave it (or in the case of Elite, crash into a wall)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_motion#Uniform_circular_motion

 

[Rutteger]

If you turn off the engines you'er not going to remain over the landing pad, isn't that obvious?

If you want to move in a circle, you need to accelerate toward the center at all times or you'll leave it (or in the case of Elite, crash into a wall)

I think we're in complete agreement. Your diagram is exactly what I've been describing. When the engines shut off the acceleration vector responsible more maintaining the ship's circular motion becomes zero and all that's left is the velocity. However where I'm saying "move towards the landing pad" you're saying "crash into a wall"; but the wall is the landing pad in this situation. In the video the ship very close to the landing pad so when it slowly "crashes" into it, the ship and the landing pad are almost parallel. Maybe I was being unclear when I said the ship moves towards the landing pad, but it's still a true statement.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

absolutely not.
to keep hovering over the landing pad the ships is using a multitude of thrusters. if you accept the forces in act are negligible (like if the base was in deep space, perfectly still in the absolute, unlifey sense) the ship crashes toward the most mass (che bottom of the base), if you take realism into account, the ship drifts in a random direction and crashes on a wall.
there's just no way it would descend vertically, perpendicular to the landing pad.

 

[Ulminati]

If you've ever had your cockpit glass blown out, you'll know there's an atmosphere inside the rotating space stations. That should keep you following the landing pad for a bit.

 

[DraQ]

Since your own inertia would make you fall back towards the pad the main question is whether you can cancel the station's motion with your own engines and just hang there with pads spinning below, with FA off.
Even if there is air inside it should still take it a while to make you catch up with station's rotation.

I don't know if you can do it but my guess is "no" because real physics is apparently confusing to an average EDtard, so Coriolis' force arising when trying to pull any more advanced maneuvers in a rotating frame of reference would be unmanageable.
No, a true EDtard recognizes that in quest for fun a game must forgo any semblance of consistent mechanics and just make shit up as it goes, just like in order to make an enjoyable RPG you need to forgo the notion of consistent challenge and just scale everything to player's level because that's where fun is, yo.

Also Praetor is a moron (then again, it's not exactly anything outside of public knowledge) since he confuses centripetal force with gravity.

 

[J_C]

Edtard this, EDtard that, oh I'm so over the edge!

 

[DraQ]

Edtard this, EDtard that, oh I'm so over the edge!

It's EDge, FFS.

 

[bonescraper]

So I got one of these: http://edtracker.org.uk

I sort of rushed calibration and sensitivity setup, so it's a bit shaky. But hella trippy all the same.





Ha! They've had a "combat prototype" since 2006, but they can't make it play well and especially not over network.

Looked interesting until i saw it supports 3DOF only. Bah, i'll guess i'll have to buy TrackIR :/