Elite: Dangerous

[buzz]

Why do you keep posting in this thread, when you have openly admitted that you have zero experience relevant to the topic.

sorry for not playing through space sims hundreds of hours to be able to use my brain.


Seriously, why do you post if you can't read?


Anyway, quickly downloaded GLFrontier. 1 minute in, from a terraformed Mars position (I assume with similar gravitational pull to earth)
- space ship the size of a fucking car with small engine
- no need to launch yourself at full throtle and a certain angle for a couple of minutes so you can reach low orbit.

Apparently, "space simulator" means propelling yourself upwards for a few meters, then "speeding off" with your main engines like in cartoons . At least if it could work like tiltrotors do, allowing you to tilt the engine so you can propel yourself vertically then slowly change the angle.
But hey! you can pull up your landing gear/undercarriage, kudos to that. And you need permission for taking off. That's some realistic and scientifically accurate shit right there!

Okay, I'm in space. Let's check some stuff. Pew-pew lasers? Check. Technobabble fantasy interstellar travel? Check. The ability to "dilate" time? Yep.
Okay, I've made up my mind already.


Final Rating: 0/10 would not recommend to training astronauts as simulator.


There, gained some experience. Now fuck off!

 

[potatojohn]

If you spent as much time playing games as you do writing walls of text you wouldn't be such a dumbfuck. Just an idea.

 

[Raapys]

Ok, I-War's flight mechanics are definitely interesing and fun, they work in that particular game really well. It gives you a taste of freedom of space flight and adds a new layer of complexity. And i would definitely like to see more well made space games with Newtonian flight physics... Especially, because i didn't like I-War 2 for enirely different reasons.

But i don't believe that every game should follow I-War 2 from now on. Definitely not. I want my Tie Fighters to fly like Tie Fighters. Freespace 2 could work like that, yeah. But it doesn't and it still doesn't make it a bad game. To me, flight model is just a small cog in the whole mechanism that makes a space sim. You know what ED does that I-War does not? It simulates our galaxy and orbital mechanics, it has gravity wells, gravitional slinghots, accurate distances and constellations... and near-instant laser beams. So stop sperging about something that's not going to happen anyway, and enjoy the game for what it is.

Every game? You wot mate. The ratio of arcade to newtonian space sims must be something like 10:1. That was kinda my point. And hoping/expecting that the series that pioneered newtonian physics in space would bring it one step further with this long-hoped-for sequel didn't seem that far fetched.

Yeah sure, it has lots of other elements, and that's great. But flying is the one thing you'll be doing all the time, so it better be excellent.

You pretty much just described Star Citizen's flight model. As a result, a lot of people complains about input lag in that game (lag = time required to apply counter thrust to change the direction they are moving in).

Well yeah, with the huge amount of SC backers I've no doubt a few of them expected Call of Duty in space. Like I said though, I haven't played it so I can't comment on it. It's possible they haven't made the side/navigation-thrusters very powerful, which could no doubt become annoying. Slow ship rotation or slow acceleration/deceleration sucks regardless of whether the flight model is arcade or newtonian, since (I/we?) prefer fast paced action.

 

[buzz]

If you spent as much time playing games as you do writing walls of text you wouldn't be such a dumbfuck. Just an idea.

Says the guy with more than double the number of posts than mine

 

[Raapys]

Notice that I never really replied to your posts specifically, because you've made your point clear that it's not about realism as much as it is about a more challenging gameplay. I disagree on that front myself (mainly because I think you focus your idea of challenge on the wrong things, like reducing abstraction) but I respect your opinion.

I'm just trying to point out that "space sims are simulators ergo ships should move like in space hurr" argument is an error in logic.

Agreed.

It's not for the 'challenge' though, if you can call it that; it's no less challenging than arcade once you've mastered it, which takes just an hour or two of dogfighting. I just think it's *more fun*, and more interesting as well(since you have more possibilities). Kinda like how melee fighting in Dark Souls or Blade of Darkness is more fun and interesting than melee fighting in Oblivion.

(Serious suggestion) If you want a taste, download the 150MB Evochron Mercenary demo and try it out: http://www.starwraith.com/evochronmercenary/downloads.htm

The game itself wasn't all that great when I played it years ago; it has planetary landings and all that stuff, but it appears to focus more on the multiplayer aspect, so the singleplayer content has been somewhat neglected, which makes the game boring in the long run. But it did do the newtonian flight model nearly as well as Iwar2, and it has proper mouse support to boot.

 

[bonescraper]

buzz please dowlnoad Independence War 2. It's the holy grail of "realistic" space combat simulators.

 

[Ulminati]

New rule: anyone who hasn't managed to land a Kerbal on Eve and return it safely to Kerbin without cheats is banned from complaining about or discussing Newtonian physics.

Exceptions will be made for anyone who can prove they have a M.Sc. in physics from a reputable university.

 

[bonescraper]

ITT:

 

[Stokowski]

New rule: anyone who has managed to land a Kerbal on Eve and return it safely to Kerbin without cheats is banned from complaining about or discussing fun.

 

[Dexter]

Even the most basic thing about space sims (the proper space flight) does not fit real-world logic. Look, even in modern times humanity is looking forward to making everything automatic or to place people out of danger.

[...]

Shit, why would we send people to do those kind of fights or pilot those ships? Even today we have combat drones and a whole lot of research on making autopilots and autonomous vehicles better.

Pretty much this, in possible "real" space-flight situations in the future computers would likely do most if not all of the flying (sensors, flight path and collision detection) and in possible combat likely target identification, lock and firing. They wouldn't rely on a 30-40 year old drunkard bored out of his mind to locate threats and manually fire at them with his "skills", at the most it would require something like a target confirmation for the system to do it's job, but that would lessen its effectiveness considerably.

Who wins would likely be determined by sensor and weapons range and accuracy, possible cloaking technology as well as armor plating and the quality of the AI.

It's very unlikely that there would be people flying these sort of missions anyway, much less that the ships would have a classic cockpit with huge windows instead of being small and heavily plated, packed full with effective weaponry.

Personally I'm fine with having fun "sitting" in a ship cockpit, flying through space with a Joystick while being able to look and turn around and the more exciting and fun they can make that experience, the better.

Still waiting for my DK2 to fully immerse myself in this, I tried a few of the training missions so far and even got to use someone else's for two days but didn't get to play it much more than a few dozen minutes where I flew around the space station a bit, got to take off and dock etc. The resolution still seemed somewhat on the low side for most on-board menus, albeit you could lean forward and see the text much clearer due to positional tracking.

Can't wait to have my own and start playing with the X52 Pro HOTAS I got for this and similar games.

For that matter, for later self-reference: http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=363067#post363067

Spoiler

If you spent as much time playing games [...] you wouldn't be such a dumbfuck.

 

[J_C]

Spoiler

I know this is not the best and most expensive HOTAS, but damn this is one good looking setup.

 

[Blaine]

It looks better in the ad than it does when you've got it in your hands.

The CH trio is the opposite, looks like a toy in pictures but very solid when you've got it right in front of you and can touch it.

No dick jokes.

 

[Dexter]

I know this is not the best and most expensive HOTAS, but damn this is one good looking setup.

Yeah, one of the factors for choosing it is that they basically modeled the IG stick and throttle after it so if you position everything right you basically see a 1:1 translation, while you press a button your magic hand does the same etc.:

Also, whenever they seem to demonstrate Elite: Dangerous they seem to have one of those things:
https://twitter.com/DavidBraben/status/471717110679220224/photo/1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3bVeRpvctQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIrcOLEdrvw

From the alternatives out there: http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/08/05/the-best-pc-joysticks/ it also seems
somewhat affordable, doesn't look like shit and isn't full plastic like the X55 or CH Products set.

Comparison between normal X52 and X52 Pro by Saitek states:

1. Tri-state LEDs (which are also accessible by the SDK)
2. Dual spring centering mechanism - provides incremental stiffness as you move the stick away from centre
3. Dual hall effect sensors for increased accuracy of the stick axes
4. Metal shaft and centering mechanism for increased durability
5. Selected metal parts

On the Joystick itself the main shaft, centering mechanism and plate, springs, as well as the coolie hat switch at the upper end, the buttons at the lower end, the rotary control at the upper end and the firing trigger itself are all metal. The firing trigger also comes with a two stage trigger, while for instance it is one stage on the X55, although the throttle seems of inferior quality compared.

Basically I was trying to decide between X52 Pro and Warthog and since it's cheaper, has a Z-Axis for Yaw as pedal replacement and seems to be the preferred peripheral by most of the Elite devs I got this one. Can't really compare much with other products since my last Joystick was from like 10+ years ago, but so far it seems fine.

Also trying to decide between Logitech G27 or Thrustmaster T500RS for racing wheels right now (although I'm inclined towards the first due to gear shifter being part of the package and the shifting on the wheel also being easier to use and price): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRIsYEd-o0w

 

[Bradylama]

I know this is not the best and most expensive HOTAS, but damn this is one good looking setup.

Yeah, one of the factors for choosing it is that they basically modeled the IG stick and throttle after it so if you position everything right you basically see a 1:1 translation, while you press a button your magic hand does the same etc.:

Your virtual cockpit also has pedals, though, so CH suite users get ultimate immershun

Elite Devs prefer the x52 because their legs have atrophied.

 

[J_C]

It looks better in the ad than it does when you've got it in your hands.

The CH trio is the opposite, looks like a toy in pictures but very solid when you've got it right in front of you and can touch it.

No dick jokes.

Weeel, I don't know. I owned an X52 (not Pro), and it looked pretty good to me, I assume the X52 Pro looks even better. Of course not as good as in an advertisement, but pretty nice. But I believe you that the CH products look even better in real life. I wish I had one of those.

 

[Dexter]

Weeel, I don't know. I owned an X52 (not Pro), and it looked pretty good to me, I assume the X52 Pro looks even better. Of course not as good as in an advertisement, but pretty nice. But I believe you that the CH products look even better in real life. I wish I had one of those.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/08/05/the-best-pc-joysticks/

That's how they "look", and they're all plastic:

For reference, Warthog:

X55 Rhino:

X52 Pro:

 

[J_C]

Weeel, I don't know. I owned an X52 (not Pro), and it looked pretty good to me, I assume the X52 Pro looks even better. Of course not as good as in an advertisement, but pretty nice. But I believe you that the CH products look even better in real life. I wish I had one of those.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/08/05/the-best-pc-joysticks/

That's how they "look", and they're all plasticICS

Oh boy, you just opened Pandora's box. Blaine will come and educate us about HOTAS setups. :D Just kidding. Seriously, although the CH products look cheap plastic, they are very high quality (there is a difference between plastic and high quality plastic). They are very good and durable stuff. That said, the Warthog is my dream HOTAS, although that X55 doesn't look bad either. I didn't even know Saitek has this setup.

 

[Blaine]

Dexter
If you put your hands on the CH Products HOTAS, you'll immediately realize that it's not "plastic" in the usual sense of the word. Most people associate the word with cheapness, or shoddiness. You expect it to creak and squeak a bit, to shift slightly in your hand... nope. The CH HOTAS feels like you're holding a tank.

The plastic used in the CH HOTAS is industrial-grade, fiber-reinforced polymer. The grainy texture you can see in the picture is the fiber reinforcement.

CH peripherals are legendary for their ruggedness and durability. Their plastic construction may perform as well as or better than metal, though that's hard to say as there isn't as much info on the durability of the Warthog as it hasn't been for sale for nearly as long as the CH stuff.

PS: PC Gamer hasn't got a fucking clue what it's talking about.

 

[Ulminati]

Got accused of "hacking". :3

I'm currently in a Cobra Mk. III with heat sinks, military-grade polymer hull, 2 C4 multi-cannons and 2 C2 multi-cannons. I went to the freeport extraction site asteroid field and hunted other players in silent mode. The guy I blew up said I was hacking because I was invisible to him.

would stealth again.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Putting my computer together today (and getting my HOTAS), after installing everything I am hoping that tomorrow I can fire this bitch up and get cracking. TSO EXCITE!

 

[Bradylama]

I didn't want to start playing the new Beta until this weekend, but I may not be able to control myself today.

Also - make sure you check your account profile, because you have to change it on Frontier's support page before it will be changed in-game. Look for "commander name."

 

[potatojohn]

God, are you boobs going to be disappointed when you get the game and it's optimized for an xbox gamepad.

 

[J_C]

God, are you boobs going to be disappointed when you get the game and it's optimized for an xbox gamepad.

If the controls use analog axis (which it does), the joystick is always the best option.

 

[potatojohn]

Yes that's why I play FPS with a joystick...

 

[Bradylama]

Yes that's why I play FPS with a joystick...

Thanks for discrediting the myth that Autists are intellectually gifted.