Engagement System Questions

[Grunker]

Whining is going into every PoE-thread saying "OMG I HATE DIS SO MUCH LOOK AT HOW SHIT IT IS DERP". How the fuck is criticizing engagement in a thread about criticizing engagement "whiny?" It's telling that the sole defense is accusal, it's been like 5 posts now since I've heard an actual argument.

I guess because it usually does sound more like "Combat sucks because engagement is irredeemably shit and I don't like it" instead of e.g. "engagement system currently is broken (to some extend/totally) and needs to be fixed by..."

I motherfucking hope you can see why I suspect most people here of not actually reading my fucking posts, right?

it usually does sound more like "Combat sucks because engagement is irredeemably shit

By the way I still think the combat is fun and I like most of what I've played so far.

PoE doesn't really need an SCS mod IMO. The game is superior to stock IE-fights (as in: trash mob fights) in the vast majority of cases.

There are many interesting choices in combat, they're only impaired by the engagement-system, not utterly crushed by them at all.

So far (who knows if it'll hold) it's one of the better combat systems I've played.

When this is what you guys find to be a "whiny and complete dismissal", perhaps you can understand why I'm accusing you of being defensive...

 

[Gord]

When this is what you guys find to be a "whiny and complete dismissal", perhaps you can understand why I'm accusing you of being defensive...

Ok, I'm apologising then. Including you into my generalisation was not entirely justified.

 

[Elwro]

During engagements there are rectangles above my guys with circles next to them. The circles, I guess, show the given action. But the rectangles have 1) a line at the bottom and 2) a series of weird lumps above that line. What are those? I read the whole manual and I'm not seeing an explanation.

 

[Beowulf]

Ad 1. Line represents the recovery time i.e. time before your character will perform a new action animation
Ad 2. "Diamonds" - a rough estimate of character endurance (both yours and the enemy)

 

[Elwro]

Thanks!

 

[Beowulf]

Nie ma za co

 

[Stokowski]

Perhaps if we find a way of making money off Grunker's excess bile, the site could maintain itself for longer before the next begging for money thread?

 

[tuluse]

I see.

Well, to me that makes fights more interesting and cut down the cheese, at least that one. So while it indeed does what you say it does (though dis-engagement attacks are just that: one attack, not some mysterious one shot kill attack or something), whether or not it's a good thing or a bad thing is just personal opinion.

I'm a couple pages behind so I don't if this has been addressed yet, but you're wrong. If you get hit with a disengagement attack you are re-engaged. It's a vicious cycle of never escaping.

 

[Sensuki]

Oh man, the amount of times an enemy has died to a disengagement attack running straight at Eder is funny, lmao. The disengagement bug was never fixed, they just made it so that if you cancelled your move action inside a unit selection circle that they moved out of it.

 

[Morkar Left]

Just crossposting here because it fits thematically:

I would prefer a mechanic where you have to make a check to overcome an enemie's check to disengage at all.
Let's say:
fumbling: you get automatically hit by the enemy and you can't move away (timebased/timer)
grace: you can't move away (timebased/timer), maybe getting a deflection penalty for the next enemy attack
successful: you can move safely away
Critical success: you get a free attack and you can safely move away

Should be an acrobatics or Reflex test imo.

I want to make disengaging less lethal. The reason you want to disengage is fleeing, helping another teammember or making a beeline through the enemies defensive line. Which are all good tactical options for making combat more interesting when the situation occurs. You shouldn't discourage it by bringing you at an disadvantage by trying it. Make it only difficult to achieve. Because for all these actions to succeed time is the critical factor. It's not the question if you can disengage but when you can disengage.

 

[mutonizer]

I want to make disengaging less lethal. The reason you want to disengage is fleeing, helping another teammember or making a beeline through the enemies defensive line. Which are all good tactical options for making combat more interesting when the situation occurs. You shouldn't discourage it by bringing you at an disadvantage by trying it. Make it only difficult to achieve. Because for all these actions to succeed time is the critical factor. It's not the question if you can disengage but when you can disengage.

Hmm, you just get hit once at worse (well, once per dude who engage you that is). Really not sure what's so dramatic or discouraging about it.
Are you having many people just in robes and clothing? Tried doing a quick switch to 1hd/shield before disengaging, or maybe taking a defensive talent, just to reduce maybe the crit chance at least? I mean, unless that drastically changes later on, mobs don't hit THAT hard overall.

Edit:
Another trick that works quite often for me when my guy is already low health, surrounded and it's just death or death, is a quick withdrawal on him from the priest. That puts him to safety and regen endurance, so he'll be back nice and safe once the spells end to help out. Not perfect but with rough fights, can be good.

 

[Morkar Left]

I want to make disengaging less lethal. The reason you want to disengage is fleeing, helping another teammember or making a beeline through the enemies defensive line. Which are all good tactical options for making combat more interesting when the situation occurs. You shouldn't discourage it by bringing you at an disadvantage by trying it. Make it only difficult to achieve. Because for all these actions to succeed time is the critical factor. It's not the question if you can disengage but when you can disengage.

Hmm, you just get hit once at worse (well, once per dude who engage you that is). Really not sure what's so dramatic or discouraging about it.
Are you having many people just in robes and clothing? Tried doing a quick switch to 1hd/shield before disengaging, or maybe taking a defensive talent, just to reduce maybe the crit chance at least? I mean, unless that drastically changes later on, mobs don't hit THAT hard overall.

One problem is that pathfinding can mess positioning up and the enemy does more damage than a in a normal attack. Additionally you can't disengage, he gets a normal attack, you try to disengange again, fail and you get hit again for more damage. A repetitive cycle occurs at worst.
I think that's not really necessary. The get an extra attack before you can flee mechanic is more something for turnbased combat.
Just prevent the disengaging because the only reason you want to disengage is timedependent or because you are going to lose against this enemy. It's a realtime game, make use of it. And nothing prevents the enemy from following you and engage you again. Especially if he has a faster base speed. It would make the entire positioning more dynamic and allow more stats to play a role instead of only attack values.

 

[tuluse]

Just crossposting here because it fits thematically:

I would prefer a mechanic where you have to make a check to overcome an enemie's check to disengage at all.
Let's say:
fumbling: you get automatically hit by the enemy and you can't move away (timebased/timer)
grace: you can't move away (timebased/timer), maybe getting a deflection penalty for the next enemy attack
successful: you can move safely away
Critical success: you get a free attack and you can safely move away

Should be an acrobatics or Reflex test imo.

This already exists just in reverse. You can dodge disengagement attacks and free yourself.

Edit:
Another trick that works quite often for me when my guy is already low health, surrounded and it's just death or death, is a quick withdrawal on him from the priest. That puts him to safety and regen endurance, so he'll be back nice and safe once the spells end to help out. Not perfect but with rough fights, can be good.

And what if you choose to adventure without a priest? There are more classes than slots. Any combination of 6 different classes should be able to deal with disengagement equally as well.

 

[tdphys]

You know, in 4e DnD engagement is just a simple basic melee attack - ie limited damage. One way to solve everyone's problem would be to make engagment more of an attrition attack, rather then a *boom* you're dead thing. If it's gonna be insta attack , and cheesable, just make it do like a 1/4 damage, or no crits allowed or something.

Actually, I like highly accurate but not crittable... the guy is running away after all... Then you could have eder break engagement with 5 guys, and still survive, and your mages could possibly run without being too damaged...

 

[Darth Roxor]

most of your posts are one-liner variations of "lol look at this game sucking isn't it sucky lol". you remind me of curry when he was on his AoD-spree

I always back everything I say with reasons as to why everything is shit.

I am also always right.

 

[Jaesun]

But how are the tire textures?

 

[ArchAngel]

I HATE ENGAGEMENT!! My rogue gets one shotted by disengagement because he just turns around to attack the enemy that was just behind him and moves like 1 pixel or something. Fuck the game!

 

[Bubbles]

One shotted, eh? If you go into melee, wear armor.

 

[ArchAngel]

One shotted, eh? If you go into melee, wear armor.

I did. And going into melee or not is often not your choice as when there are more enemies than you can engage they run around to engage everyone.

 

[Bubbles]

Well, there's always this:

When you make a Blinding Strike attack, it breaks all your engagements (bug).

 

[Darth Roxor]

But how are the tire textures?

havent seen any, will report back when i do

 

[Zed]

Well, there's always this:

When you make a Blinding Strike attack, it breaks all your engagements (bug).

All attacks can cause interruption, no?
Thus breaking engagement, no?

 

[tuluse]

All attacks can cause interruption, no?

Yes

Thus breaking engagement, no?

no

 

[Sensuki]

Well, there's always this:

When you make a Blinding Strike attack, it breaks all your engagements (bug).

All attacks can cause interruption, no?
Thus breaking engagement, no?

When you make an attack against someone, it's not supposed to end engagement with them.

 

[Ellef]

I HATE ENGAGEMENT!! My rogue gets one shotted by disengagement because he just turns around to attack the enemy that was just behind him and moves like 1 pixel or something. Fuck the game!

http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/mods/1/?