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[Endemic]

There's no need to lay into Obsidian like that. I know he was probably trying to be humorous but I just didn't see it. I'll keep my own individual donation on the Kickstarter.

You must not have seen skyway and Roguey posts then...

I sent some jewgoldz to both projects, if that means anything.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

There's no need to lay into Obsidian like that. I know he was probably trying to be humorous but I just didn't see it. I'll keep my own individual donation on the Kickstarter.

You must not have seen skyway and Roguey posts then...

Posts criticising Obsidian are fine, DU can write whatever he likes too but on the front page as part of a donation drive? Sounds a little churlish to me. The Codex wasn't like that to Brian Fargo, so why do that to Obsidian?

 

[IDtenT]

ITT: We learn people feel left out from not transcending into true Codexian Trolls.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

DU's post has me disappointed. There's no need to lay into Obsidian like that.

Estimated Delivery: April 2014

That gives them 19 months.

Arcanum, a brand new IP with new combat engine, story and setting, took 3 years to develop and was still very buggy and unpolished on release, with what felt like a rushed ending.

Temple of Elemental Evil, a video game based on a pre-existing setting, with an already established rule-set (D&D 3.5) and every major story element already designed, took Troika 2 years to complete and was still buggy and felt unfinished.

Fallout: New Vegas, with a pre-built combat engine, game mechanics and pre-existing world, based on an already defined IP, was announced in April 2009 and released in October 2010. Indicating a development time-frame of at least 17 months. And they had a complete construction set and tools for that world, ready to go. All they had to do was script and add the content.

Obsidian have given themselves 19 months. That means they sat down and went "how much time do we need, because that's how long we're going to have to pay people for, in order to develop the game. And we'll need to raise money based on that time-frame." And they came up with 19 months.

Incidentally, I suspect Wasteland 2 will have the same problem.

 

[Mother Russia]

Paypal? WHAT THE FUCK DU??

Paypal only works in like 45 countries. It's why I had to beg Codex to help me by a pnp rpg (Shadows of Esteren) 'cuz I couldn't directly pay for it.

Anyhow, this is a great idea. The best and most memorable battles in Realms of Arkania were against opponent adventuring parties. My only request is that should Codexians be chosen, each codexian that is chosen should fill out the character sheet for his character by himself and send it to Obsidian (or send it to DU who will forward them all to Obsidian)

 

[Deleted member 7219]

DU's post has me disappointed. There's no need to lay into Obsidian like that.

Estimated Delivery: April 2014

That gives them 19 months.

Arcanum, a brand new IP with new combat engine, story and setting, took 3 years to develop and was still very buggy and unpolished on release, with what felt like a rushed ending.

Temple of Elemental Evil, a video game based on a pre-existing setting, with an already established rule-set (D&D 3.5) and every major story element already designed, took Troika 2 years to complete and was still buggy and felt unfinished.

Fallout: New Vegas, with a pre-built combat engine, game mechanics and pre-existing world, based on an already defined IP, was announced in April 2009 and released in October 2010. Indicating a development time-frame of at least 17 months. And they had a complete construction set and tools for that world, ready to go. All they had to do was script and add the content.

Obsidian have given themselves 19 months. That means they sat down and went "how much time do we need, because that's how long we're going to have to pay people for, in order to develop the game. And we'll need to raise money based on that time-frame." And they came up with 19 months.

Incidentally, I suspect Wasteland 2 will have the same problem.

I agree with all that. I don't get how Kickstarter seems to mean, "Give us the game NOW!". I'd much rather wait 24 months or longer for a game that will feel complete.

See, that is what I was looking for. Honest criticism.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Posts criticising Obsidian are fine, DU can write whatever he likes too but on the front page as part of a donation drive? Sounds a little churlish to me. The Codex wasn't like that to Brian Fargo, so why do that to Obsidian?

Obsidian has a track record that is simply terrible. They ought to be ashamed and we ought to be ashamed for giving them money without seeing reviews and a demo to indicate that they finally produced a well designed product with an acceptable level of bugs.

Fargo's track record under the inXile label is also bad, but his pitch video showed some understanding of this fact and a desire to return to his previous form. And while he did produce bad games under the inXile label, they were marketed at consoletards, not at us. We shouldn't have touched them anyway, so no harm done. It's very different from Obsidian that has continually failed and ripped off this very market.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I agree with all that. I don't get how Kickstarter seems to mean, "Give us the game NOW!". I'd much rather wait 24 months or longer for a game that will feel complete.

See, that is what I was looking for. Honest criticism.

Actually my main issue with the game is that it's "inspired / based on the IE games" and I fucking loathed that game engine. It's the reason I haven't finished Planescape: Torment, or Baldur's Gate. Meanwhile, Wasteland 2 holds an interest to me. A turn-based "Fallout" style game from the guy who did it the first time around. Project Eternity to me, is a pipe-dream. We don't even have decent concept art (apart from a World Map) or any real idea on what the game is like. At least Wasteland 2 gives you a setting, a theme and something to go on - plus Fargo had been talking about it for years. "Project: Eternity" is just simply non-descript and tells me that Obsidian haven't really thought this one through very much at all.

Also what PorkaMorka said. It smacks a bit of "InXile just did this KickStarter thing, let's jump on that bandwagon!".

 

[Jarpie]

I don't think that probable delays will be problem if they keep people up to speed why the game will be delayed.

 

[Endemic]

Posts criticising Obsidian are fine, DU can write whatever he likes too but on the front page as part of a donation drive? Sounds a little churlish to me. The Codex wasn't like that to Brian Fargo, so why do that to Obsidian?

'cause they're blind Fallout 1 fanboys? and yeah, I'd rather they took as long as necessary to produce a well-tested, balanced RPG.

I seem to be some exemption from reality in that I never experience game-breaking bugs in Obsidian titles. I'm well aware of their flaws, but I'll take a flawed gem over mainstream tripe like Mass Effect 3.

 

[Infinitron]

Funny how the DU/VD dichotomy shows up even here. Vault Dweller is very enthusiastic about this game, while he's been quite dismissive of Wasteland 2.

Ironically, DarkUnderlord is using the same "insufficient development time" argument that VD has been using against Wasteland 2.

 

[Volrath]

Posts criticising Obsidian are fine, DU can write whatever he likes too but on the front page as part of a donation drive? Sounds a little churlish to me. The Codex wasn't like that to Brian Fargo, so why do that to Obsidian?

Obsidian has a track record that is simply terrible. They ought to be ashamed and we ought to be ashamed for giving them money without seeing reviews and a demo to indicate that they finally produced a well designed product with an acceptable level of bugs.

Fargo's track record under the inXile label is also bad, but his pitch video showed some understanding of this fact and a desire to return to his previous form. And while he did produce bad games under the inXile label, they were marketed at consoletards, not at us. We shouldn't have touched them anyway, so no harm done. It's very different from Obsidian that has continually failed and ripped off this very market.

Fargo's video was an ironic take on publishers, the shit we've been saying here for years. No wonder it resonated so much with Codexers. But when it came to mechanics, quest design, and everything else he didn't get further then: turn based!1!1! party creation!1!1!.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I agree with all that. I don't get how Kickstarter seems to mean, "Give us the game NOW!". I'd much rather wait 24 months or longer for a game that will feel complete.

See, that is what I was looking for. Honest criticism.

Actually my main issue with the game is that it's "inspired / based on the IE games" and I fucking loathed that game engine. It's the reason I haven't finished Planescape: Torment, or Baldur's Gate. Meanwhile, Wasteland 2 holds an interest to me. A turn-based "Fallout" style game from the guy who did it the first time around. Project Eternity to me, is a pipe-dream. We don't even have decent concept art (apart from a World Map) or any real idea on what the game is like. At least Wasteland 2 gives you a setting, a theme and something to go on - plus Fargo had been talking about it for years. "Project: Eternity" is just simply non-descript and tells me that Obsidian haven't really thought this one through very much at all.

Also what PorkaMorka said. It smacks a bit of "InXile just did this KickStarter thing, let's jump on that bandwagon!".

I despised the IE engine too. Planescape Torment was the only one I finished and I really had to push myself hard. The much-praised story declines dramatically in the last third of the game, and it turns into Icewind Dale - huge numbers of enemies to carve through using that horrible combat system. I hope what they mean by inspired by IE is inspired by what the games of that era meant. Not trying to target as wide an audience as possible, trusting your audience to be intelligent and inquisitive, that kind of thing.

It sounds like you're not happy with the donation drive at all and that inspired your snarky comments on the front page. Fine, that explains a few things for me. I see where you're coming from now. I thought before that you were being sarcastic for the fun of it. Still, I think if there was to be a donation drive from the Codex at all, it should have been more generous in its wording. We should be happy that they're still wanting to make RPGs.

 

[Infinitron]

I agree with all that. I don't get how Kickstarter seems to mean, "Give us the game NOW!". I'd much rather wait 24 months or longer for a game that will feel complete.

See, that is what I was looking for. Honest criticism.

Actually my main issue with the game is that it's "inspired / based on the IE games" and I fucking loathed that game engine. It's the reason I haven't finished Planescape: Torment, or Baldur's Gate. Meanwhile, Wasteland 2 holds an interest to me. A turn-based "Fallout" style game from the guy who did it the first time around. Project Eternity to me, is a pipe-dream. We don't even have decent concept art (apart from a World Map) or any real idea on what the game is like. At least Wasteland 2 gives you a setting, a theme and something to go on - plus Fargo had been talking about it for years. "Project: Eternity" is just simply non-descript and tells me that Obsidian haven't really thought this one through very much at all.

Also what PorkaMorka said. It smacks a bit of "InXile just did this KickStarter thing, let's jump on that bandwagon!".

If you hate the IE so much and you can't restrain yourself, you should have let someone else on staff write the post.

Why start a fundraiser if you're going to be so half-assed about it? This isn't a fucking game review, it's an attempt to get something done.

 

[IDtenT]

They could have given themselves more months if they put the target at say $2mil. They were scared the kickstarter wouldn't make that so they didn't. Just another form of bad decision making over at Obsidian.

 

[IDtenT]

I don't think that probable delays will be problem if they keep people up to speed why the game will be delayed.

The problem is budget-overruns. Will you be fine with them getting a publisher in in 2014 to help fund the polishing of the game?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I agree with all that. I don't get how Kickstarter seems to mean, "Give us the game NOW!". I'd much rather wait 24 months or longer for a game that will feel complete.

See, that is what I was looking for. Honest criticism.

Actually my main issue with the game is that it's "inspired / based on the IE games" and I fucking loathed that game engine. It's the reason I haven't finished Planescape: Torment, or Baldur's Gate. Meanwhile, Wasteland 2 holds an interest to me. A turn-based "Fallout" style game from the guy who did it the first time around. Project Eternity to me, is a pipe-dream. We don't even have decent concept art (apart from a World Map) or any real idea on what the game is like. At least Wasteland 2 gives you a setting, a theme and something to go on - plus Fargo had been talking about it for years. "Project: Eternity" is just simply non-descript and tells me that Obsidian haven't really thought this one through very much at all.

Also what PorkaMorka said. It smacks a bit of "InXile just did this KickStarter thing, let's jump on that bandwagon!".

If you hate the IE so much and you can't restrain yourself, you should have let someone else on staff write the post.

Why start a fundraiser if you're going to be so half-assed about it? This isn't a fucking game review, it's an attempt to get something done.

Exactly. His opinion is understandable but if there was to be a donation drive then it should have been more optimistic. And I'm not just talking about being nice to RPG developers; I'm talking about getting Codexers off their asses to donate money. The drive for Wasteland 2 was great for doing that, people actually fought the decline in an effort to bring back how RPGs used to be. Of course, if this drive is as successful then I'll eat my words.

 

[IDtenT]

I haven't finished an IE game either, mostly because the mechanics are retarded. We should form a forum or something.

 

[Infinitron]

Of course, if this drive is as successful then I'll eat my words.

It won't be. The anti-RTwP butthurt alone ensures that, even if the Codex leadership wasn't all passive-aggressive about it.

 

[Jarpie]

I don't think that probable delays will be problem if they keep people up to speed why the game will be delayed.

The problem is budget-overruns. Will you be fine with them getting a publisher in in 2014 to help fund the polishing of the game?

Then they can ask for more money!

 

[Mother Russia]

RTwP is inferior to Turn Based, but it is much better than real time. The IE games were awesome. Still, I would have loved turn based...however, Obsidian has shown how they can fuck that up as well when it comes to the game around the turn based engine (aka ToEE). And yeah, it was Obsidian to blame for that, not publisher pressure. I am not talking about bugs, I am talking about the horrendously boring module they decided to use. And seriously, why use modules at all? Especially WOTC/TSR modules? They suck ass. All of them. Only i6: Ravenloft was any good.

Obsidian work best when they come up with story shit themselves, such as on KOTOR II, and even then they have issues wherein they go off the deep end and try to make the story really 'mature' and 'deep', which in the end just becomes ridiculous and weird, and completely at odds with the decades old established lore of the beloved franchise ( like the whole 'wound in the Force', which is retarded because the Force as established is impossible to 'wound')

Still, KOTOR II was awesome, and another game with a story made by the same ppl would be great.

I just hope that they have a class based system, not skill based (or at least a combo of the two). And the magic system must be awesome.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Still, I think if there was to be a donation drive from the Codex at all, it should have been more generous in its wording. We should be happy that they're still wanting to make RPGs.

Why? The project is already funded and even if it weren't, I see no reason to suck up to game developers just because they're begging. If we raise the cash because, despite what I think, Codexers really want to fund it, then it'll get funded. But if we can't raise enough for the target, then we put in whatever gets raised and go for what we can get. Now, most of the money for the Wasteland 2 statue was because we had a clear goal and something to aim for in the form of an awesome image of a statue. We didn't even know what we were donating for in Eternity until today, and even then, people have specifically said they're not going to donate because they don't want to see 6 Codexers in the game (and we have no real fucking idea what it is we're putting in the game, once again).

There was also about a month's delay between Fargo announcing that "we're thinking about a Wasteland 2 KickStarter" and it actually happening for Wasteland 2. They didn't say "Something AWESOME will happen! Trust us!" and then act all secret like. You're raising money here, you can't afford to be secretive. I mean, a title of the game at least would be nice. Mind you this is also the third KickStarter we've fund-raised for in as many months, with all the forum "no no no I want a giant banana and three magic rings and our location should have a great big cherry on top" whining to go along with it, so maybe I'm a bit jaded.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

RTwP is inferior to Turn Based, but it is much better than real time. The IE games were awesome. Still, I would have loved turn based...however, Obsidian has shown how they can fuck that up as well when it comes to the game around the turn based engine (aka ToEE). And yeah, it was Obsidian to blame for that, not publisher pressure. I am not talking about bugs, I am talking about the horrendously boring module they decided to use. And seriously, why use modules at all? Especially WOTC/TSR modules? They suck ass. All of them. Only i6: Ravenloft was any good.

Obsidian work best when they come up with story shit themselves, such as on KOTOR II, and even then they have issues wherein they go off the deep end and try to make the story really 'mature' and 'deep', which in the end just becomes ridiculous and weird, and completely at odds with the decades old established lore of the beloved franchise ( like the whole 'wound in the Force', which is retarded because the Force as established is impossible to 'wound')

Still, KOTOR II was awesome, and another game with a story made by the same ppl would be great.

I just hope that they have a class based system, not skill based (or at least a combo of the two). And the magic system must be awesome.

Why is the Force impossible to wound? Because Lucas said so? The best stuff in the Star Wars universe was the stuff not written by him. TIE Fighter, the Thrawn books, KOTOR 2 being three examples. They all bring elements of originality to what was originally just a fairy tale set in space.

But even going by the Lucas canon approach, there were hints of Force wounds in A New Hope. Obi-Wan's shock and pain at the destruction of Alderaan, for instance. And in the EU there are references to the remnants of the second Death Star above Endor being pretty much a no-go area, and that was established before KOTOR 2.

We're getting sidetracked here, but KOTOR 2 fanboy as I am I can't let statements like that go unchallenged. You can dislike the concept if you want but calling it retarded is a step too far. To drag this back to topic, Obsidian aren't the betrayers of lore than some make them out to be. I personally find that many of the people on the internet who despise Obsidian (you obviously not being one of them) are fans of KOTOR 1 and Fallout 3. Maybe Obsidian's sequels to are at odds with the established lore (actually, I think New Vegas was very loyal to F1, F2 and the Van Buren project), but only in terms of how simple and undeveloped the stories were in those games.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I seem to be some exemption from reality in that I never experience game-breaking bugs in Obsidian titles. I'm well aware of their flaws, but I'll take a flawed gem over mainstream tripe like Mass Effect 3.

You sound like a blind Obsidian fanboy.

Flawed gems... I'm sorry, if we're talking about flawed gems, it's the Troika games that deserve to be called so. Obsidian is already on a too low level to even be considered.

 

[serch]

50$ thrown in the pot