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Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by LESS T_T, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. Dexter Arcane

    Dexter
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    We were doing so well, and then someone has to go ahead and say something even dumber than "YOUR ARGUMENT IS GOMMUNISM!". The initial investment and risk involved in developing something that doesn't exist is always orders of magnitude larger than coming in after something is a proven concept as a competitor and doing a #MeToo while trying to copy any good features (although to Epic's benefit, they really didn't copy that much yet since they don't really HAVE any noteworthy features and "shopping cart" turned into a running joke).

    We've talked about this a lot of pages ago, but Valve didn't even want to develop Steam to begin with, they mainly needed something to facilitate Autoupdates and hassle-free Patching of one of their popular Online franchises (Counter Strike), as well as an Anti-Cheating solution and went around asking Tech companies like Microsoft, Yahoo, Real and whatnot asking if they have or could provide a solution, finding out to their detriment that nobody was doing anything like they needed so they decided to do it themselves, probably not knowing if it'll be a success or be adopted at all or if they're wasting their time and (at that time limited) money. They came up with selling games over it afterwards and they didn't even sell any third party software for the first 3 years of the platform's lifespan after its release:
    Show Spoiler


    None of this has to do with the cost of hosting/featuring a small RPG Maker game on their platform though, since they would have done all of that without the existence of J_C's or Vault Dweller's games anyway, and let's just say neither of their games have the kind of profile that would influence any change or addition to their feature-set or initiate any kind of large investment or expansion, since Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto V, Assassin's Creed, DOTA 2, PUBG or even Destiny 2 or Warframe they ain't.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  2. passerby Savant

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    Pure bullshit, the more developed the industry is, the higher is economic barrier to entry, it's basic economics.

    The only situation where copypasta service can easily crush the original, is when someone makes copypasta of new proven idea that is in early stages of growth, with order of magnitue higher budget and literally steal the market from before the nose of the original creators.
     
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  3. Dexter Arcane

    Dexter
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    These are not, at all, the same statements. The initial investment and risk involved in creating something (and as we've established Steam wasn't even supposed to be an Online Store initially, which is what made it actually big) has nothing to do with whether a "copypasta service" can "crush the original".
     
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  4. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    First, did you really feel the need to tag me in every fucking post of yours? And three times in ever post?
    Second, if you really think that Valve only offers a server and a storepage for users, than I don't know if I can convince you of the adventages of Steam.
     
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  5. Junmarko Goomba Patron

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  6. Dexter Arcane

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    Yes, J_C I did. I don't need to be "convinced of the advantages of Steam". I want to know how my statement that they have very little overhead listing and selling your game and that it costs almost nothing to do so that you initially took issue with is wrong. Or do you think Valve pays staff, put up additional server and does R&D because of "Exile Squadron" or even "Age of Decadence"?
     
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  7. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer

    J_C
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    I don't really get what you mean here. Of course they are not adding extra servers for 2 games. But servers and store maintenance for 10 thousand games, R&D for new features and staff overhead costs money.
     
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  8. Wyatt_Derp Liturgist

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    Where's Liberty Prime when we need him?

     
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  9. Ezeekiel Arbiter

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    Hate to link to games media, but probably a good short little read for people who aren't yet aware of steam's own physical network etc: https://www.pcgamer.com/steam-delivered-15-billion-gigabytes-of-data-in-2018/
    They don't just rent a bunch of servers and rely on the existing net to deliver the data.

    Wonder what the costs of building your own sort-of separate internet infrastructure are. Something tells me a good chunk of those 30% go into that... Do they go so far as to have their own fiber optic connections across the oceans?
     
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  10. deuxhero Arcane

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    What could this even be used for though? Only Steam games I can think of with local MP only are the SEGA Mega Drive and Genesis Classics, which are literally just an emulator with roms.

    edit: If it works with non-Steam games, it could be used for other emulators. Still not much purpose I see.

    edit: Tales of Games.
     
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  11. Jenkem Magister Patron

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    Make the Codex Great Again!
    there are tons of indie games that are either local MP focused or have local MP side modes but not the time/resources to make it online
     
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  12. Dickie Arcane Patron

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    There are currently almost 7k games on steam with Shared/Split-Screen and about 2,500 with local co-op:

    https://store.steampowered.com/search?category3=24
     
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  13. deuxhero Arcane

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    How many that don't also have online MP though?
     
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  14. MuscleSpark Augur Patron

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    The most-requested one I can think of is TowerFall Ascension.
    Thankfully Steam allows one to search by tags so here is the full list of games with Shared/Split Screen https://store.steampowered.com/search/?category2=24
    A lot of the benefit comes from only having to buy one copy of a game and being able to play it with any of your friends.

    Edit: Damn Ninjas.
     
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  15. Dickie Arcane Patron

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    It's hard to say, exactly because of how game features are tagged. Some games will have multiplayer and not specify local nor online. Some will have local co-op but not local multiplayer. For instance, if you check both "Online Multiplayer" and "Local Multiplayer" boxes, you get 2k results, but unchecking "Online Multiplayer" changes the result to 4k. I think this means that 2,000 games have local multiplayer and not online multiplayer, but like I said, it's not exact because of how these things are tagged on games.

    I don't want to sit here and make an exhaustive list, but here's a few.





    Edit: Also, I think it'll be nice if devs can just make local multiplayer which seems to be easier than online multiplayer, and let Steam do the hard work of making working netcode.
     
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  16. catfood AGAIN

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    Liberty Prime is being built in a sweat shop in China.
     
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  17. Reinhardt Arcane

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    Codexians don't need multiplayer. It's for people with friends,
     
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  18. the_shadow Arcane

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    Yeah, even I understood this, and I'm not a game developer or a business manager. Some consumers are just entitled and love having a knee-jerk reaction to anything those evvvilll developers say, instead of actually taking a deep breath and actually thinking about things first. Listen with the intent to understand, rather than the intent to reply.

    The only people whining are the entitled gamers when they don't get everything their way. The reason I like to point it out is because of the rank hypocrisy when it comes from supposed right-wingers who claim to be big into capitalism. They will ridicule socialists and scoff at the notion of 'Muh Free Health Care', then act like they are entitled to luxury goods. At least socialists are honest about wanting to misappropriate your stuff and spread the wealth around, many right-wingers are faux capitalists who believe 'My property is mine and mine alone, but you have stuff that I want, so, umm, it's a public good that should belong to everybody!'

    They don't 'deserve' your money. Consumers don't 'deserve' their products. It's an exchange of money for goods, if you aren't interested in the product, then don't buy it.

    That's fine. It's also business to reduce overheads and cut costs. If a business can cut costs by choosing a different vendor which offers the same basic functions, why shouldn't they consider it? More importantly, why all the butthurt and outrage? They are delivering the exact same product, just through a different storefront. Do you mean to tell me that people don't swap electricity and internet providers if they offer a deal more appropriate for that individual? If I use electricity during only the off-peak period, I'm not going to care if the on-peak charges are high. Likewise, I'm not going to care if a storefront doesn't have a bunch of features I don't need, as long as I can get cheap games, or games that are exclusive that I want.

    They don't have Borderlands 3, though. And the offers some games at lower prices. To some customers, those advantages outweight the disadvantages. You care about all the other functions, but I don't. Large catalogue? As even anti-EPIC posters in this thread have already pointed out, a lot of those games are penny dreadfuls. Friends lists? Hah, I don't have friends. Forums? I post on RPGCodex, what do I need STEAM forums for?
     
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  19. Reinhardt Arcane

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    Except they are not cheaper. You pay same price, but one store is just simply worse.
     
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  20. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    It's objectively worse, yes. And Valve do a lot to earn their 30%. However the number of people who actually care when there's an exclusive game they want? I doubt it's that many. That's the point of exclusives, to get you to buy there instead of over there, and it works.

    How Epic expect to turn this into a long-running success when the exclusive cash runs out though, I have no idea.
     
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  21. Reinhardt Arcane

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    So one more advantage for Steam?
     
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  22. passerby Savant

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    1) They are getting these money back from initial sales. They may not making much profit, but I doubt they they operate at a loss. They'll simply always need exclusives to keep the user base.
    2) Fortnite generates 200M$ monthly revenue.
     
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  23. mediocrepoet Arcane Patron

    mediocrepoet
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    Right, which is why they should stfu when people complain that a product doesn't have the features they hoped it would or otherwise wanted and therefore don't use it. As I said:

    I was being generous though. I haven't seen anything on there that I actually want.

    I can't understand why, with your winning personality.
     
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  24. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    Surely that can't be the goal though. If you believe Sweeney then he wants to take down Steam for altruistic reasons, and if you don't believe him then he wants that fat check, but either way making scraps off a handful of games a month they buy exclusivity for won't get it done.
     
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  25. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
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    Every loss Epic has from the EGS can be written off in taxes.
    How do you think Amazon got as big as they are while operating at a loss and barely paying any taxes?
     
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